hate size inconsistencies

[simsholom]

hi everyone i just received 2 (new old stock store closeout) borsalinos i ordered from ebay and instead of 7 1/8 which i ordered i received 7 1/4 but strangely these hats are smaller than the 2 borsalinos i already own in 7 1/8. i also own two stetsons 7 1/4 which are, fittingly, larger than the borsalinos 7 1/8 and slightly too big on me but these borsalinos i just received in 7 1 4 are slightly too small! any thoughts?

 

[jhe888]

I find the size any given hat is said to be can vary from other hats by plus or minus a size. One size seems to the tolerance in stated sizes.

 

[simsholom]

so what to do when ordering hats online?

 

[fedoracentric]

so what to do when ordering hats online?

Cross your fingers and hope for a return policy.
Sorry, but there is no other way around it.

 

[simsholom]

Cross your fingers and hope for a return policy.
Sorry, but there is no other way around it.

is there any way to take actual measurements of a hat? hard to get a tape measure around the circumference; i tried.

 

[Roan]

I find the size any given hat is said to be can vary from other hats by plus or minus a size. One size seems to the tolerance in stated sizes.

The tolerance may be even greater than that; I just recently received an old Knox homburg that was marked 7 1/4 but fits my father who wears 6 7/8. I couldn't even get it on my head.

 

[gtdean48]

Sometimes Borsalinos are marked with English hat sizes instead of US. I have 1 & 2 are listed in Classified, one was imported by a US hat shop & still has the English sizing. Usually they have the European or cm size & the Punti size as well but you never know. Stetsons are round oval where the Borso's may fit Long Oval better.
Vintage hats can have changed sizing due to their life experiences...
I have hats from 7 3/8 XLO to 7 3/4, new & vintage...have many stretchers & a band block...
Part of the challenge & the fun of being a hat nerd....

 

[Blackthorn]

Stetsons are notorious for being off size, but I've had numerous Akubras like that, also.

 

[fedoracentric]

(It is important to remember that some foreign hat makers use the English hat sizes which are one size under the US size. A size 7 in America is a size 6-7/8 in England.)

But, we have to remember that fedoras are made of soft materials. They have all sorts of reactions to heat and cold and no hat will react the same as the next to time and use. Some hats have leather that shrink up over time, others expand and stretch. And these changes in shape and size can happen even while the hat is being made in some cases.

Temperature conditions can do all sorts of things to fedoras and there is no telling what.

That's why in the old days there were actual hat shops everywhere as opposed to strictly hats sitting on a shelf in a store as just part of its varied inventory. Hats had to be fitted.

So, we are all, every last one of us, rolling the dice buying ANY hat from ANY source over the Internet/phone/mail without being able to try it on before buying.

Let's put it this way: I have two Stetson 30X el Patron hats made around the same time in the early 2000s. Both supposedly a size 7-1/8. One fits perfectly. The second fits like a 7-1/4.

 

[John Galt]

(It is important to remember that some foreign hat makers use the English hat sizes which are one size under the US size. A size 7 in America is a size 6-7/8 in England.)

But, we have to remember that fedoras are made of soft materials. They have all sorts of reactions to heat and cold and no hat will react the same as the next to time and use. Some hats have leather that shrink up over time, others expand and stretch. And these changes in shape and size can happen even while the hat is being made in some cases.

Temperature conditions can do all sorts of things to fedoras and there is no telling what.

That's why in the old days there were actual hat shops everywhere as opposed to strictly hats sitting on a shelf in a store as just part of its varied inventory. Hats had to be fitted.

So, we are all, every last one of us, rolling the dice buying ANY hat from ANY source over the Internet/phone/mail without being able to try it on before buying.

Let's put it this way: I have two Stetson 30X el Patron hats made around the same time in the early 2000s. Both supposedly a size 7-1/8. One fits perfectly. The second fits like a 7-1/4.

Thanks for pointing this out - I've noted in my reading of old resources that the size/circumference calculation is 1/8 off under the British method.

 

[jhe888]

What do you do? Hope for the best. And make sure you can return it if it is too far off.

I err on the size of too large. I'd rather have a hat be a little loose than a little tight. Fur felt sometimes shrinks a bit over time, and you can always shim it a bit, too.

 

[simsholom]

Sometimes Borsalinos are marked with English hat sizes instead of US. I have 1 & 2 are listed in Classified, one was imported by a US hat shop & still has the English sizing. Usually they have the European or cm size & the Punti size as well but you never know. Stetsons are round oval where the Borso's may fit Long Oval better.
Vintage hats can have changed sizing due to their life experiences...
I have hats from 7 3/8 XLO to 7 3/4, new & vintage...have many stretchers & a band block...
Part of the challenge & the fun of being a hat nerd....

correct you are. one of the hats i received has a label which is marked with both the uk and us size the other contains only the british the circumference and one more but not the us so for that hat i had to consult a conversion chart. uk 7 1/8= 58 = us 7 1/4.

 

[simsholom]

what about strecthing? cant a hat be stretched?

 

[fedoracentric]

what about strecthing? cant a hat be stretched?

Sometimes. Other times a stretch snaps the stitches or splits the leather sweat. Further, I wouldn't ever assume a stretch more than one size is a good idea to try.
Also, you may find that you stretch a hat and it comes to fit you just right but after a few days (or even hours) it shrinks right back to its original size.
Again, a crap shoot.

 

[TheDane]

Yes, you can stretch a hat a size or so. With a hat stretcher you can stretch the felt and the leather of the sweatband - but you won't stretch the reed in the sweatband. You will therefore loose one of the the main advantages of a reeded sweatband: The belling at the bottom.

 

[John Galt]

My perspective:

A hat with a sound sweatband can safely be stretched a size or (maybe) two, and the resulting mark in the crown abrogated. If the sweat is old & dry, this is not a real option because it will curl & disform (badly). I prefer to size up over down because I can re block & hide the old "foot" stain under the new hatband. Sizing down has not resulted in either an acceptable fit (shimming ) or outcome ( stain on brim ) for me.

 

[bowlerman]

The size of my hate is immeasurable!

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

 

[fedoracentric]

... on the other hand, stretching hate seems immeasurable.

 

[TheDane]

- or maybe hate is just another "rap shoot"(?)

 

[Lotsahats]

You can also request measurements from front-to-back and side-to-side to get a feel for how close to size the hat is.

Aaron