Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[deadlyhandsome]

Question is: would he have purchased it again?

Yep. And I would have got in a bidding war with myself and drove the price through the roof!

 

[belfastboy]

You know I came close to buying a hat a while back. As I looked at it closer it looked familiar and it turned out I had sold it to the guy just a month before. I decided against re-buying it.

My equivalent is perusing Netflix and getting excited about a movie......all prepared to watch it......only to discover I already watched it just a few months prior. But as my wife says....."what does it matter if we watch it again....as we can't remember it, it will like seeing it for the first time anyway?"

 

[BobHufford]

I forgot to say I came across a nice Borsalino in your size a while ago, and was going to message you about it, when I realized you are the seller!

Ha,ha ... I've given Brent a "heads-up" before on a hat that turned out he was selling.

 

[Frunobulax]

You know I came close to buying a hat a while back. As I looked at it closer it looked familiar and it turned out I had sold it to the guy just a month before. I decided against re-buying it.

Yeah, don't do that. You'll go blind.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Yeah, don't do that. You'll go blind.

Hahaha

 

[Gobi]

you would lose some height on the crown as the felt cannot go all the way to the end of the block. You need 3/8" of the block clear so it can sit in the hole of the 3/8" thick plywood. I am working on hats today and will snap a pic and load it.

Pics would definatly help if you could post some. Are you putting the hat in the block upside down?

 

[belfastboy]

 

[belfastboy]

You can see in the last two pics that the felt does not come down to the end of the block. I left about 3/8" of bare block to fit into the hole of the 3/8" plywood. The next step is to iron the brim flat. This brim I will cut to 2 7/8" width and flange on a vintage flange to make my version of an Indy fedora (no dimensional brim though). I like using this device to trim the brim as the block sits solid in the hole and the block stays more stationary while the brim is being cut. I have better success using this method. I have to recut this flat flange on a better piece of ply. This is for a 61cm block and I cut it as an experiment.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

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Now I get it. I thought the crown would go through the hole in the plywood and that you would iron the Underside of the prim and not the top. If you gave the plywood legs to accommodate the crown could you use it more like a conventional flange and stand?

 

[belfastboy]

Now I get it. I thought the crown would go through the hole in the plywood and that you would iron the Underside of the prim and not the top. If you gave the plywood legs to accommodate the crown could you use it more like a conventional flange and stand?

Yes, it would work that way too. And doing it that way I would not have to stop the felt the 3/8" before the end of the block and thus gain the full 6" height. I may make some legs and try it. The down side to this is that I need a plywood sheet for each diametre of block so could not put legs on each one as the storage would be too much. There is a way I just have not thought of it yet.

 

[T Jones]

Affirmative on the stand.

I cheated and used my custom band block for the final sizing and trim, and when I made the first real cut with the brim jack, I realized why this was not the greatest plan. The "foot" of the rounding jack is going to cut according to the band block, because that's what it's pressing up against ultimately.

I'm assuming your custom band block was made to your head shape? Actually, you were on the track but instead of using a custom band block that's of your head shape to make a brim cut with your rounding jack, make a band block that's of the shape of the block itself. Place your block on a 1X, or thicker, and trace the shape of the block onto the wood. Afterward, cut out the shape, leaving the line, and then sand it smooth. Put it into the hat and it will sit flat on the surface, brim and all. Iron your brim with the band block inserted and after that put your rounding jack up against it and make your cut. I have yet to have the first 'miscut'. If you make a band block off the shape of your hat block, it's the same as using your block to put the foot of your rounding jack up against, except that the brim will actually be flat against the surface. Use that only for ironing and trimming your brim. Use your custom band blocks for the finishing touches. Two different types of band blocks for different purposes....if any of that made sense.

 

[Gobi]

The pics helped. That makes sense, thanks for clearing that up. I was scratching my head.
What if there was only one set of legs and you could just switch out the different boards. Could even just use for coffee cans.
My concern with plywood is the textured surface. Cutting the hole will also leave a rough edge with chipped wood.

As far as brim cutting/oval shape, I think I'll order a LO band block from RA, form a brim break, cut the brim, then insert the slightly egg oval band block to form the new brim break.

 

[belfastboy]

The pics helped. That makes sense, thanks for clearing that up. I was scratching my head.
What if there was only one set of legs and you could just switch out the different boards. Could even just use for coffee cans.
My concern with plywood is the textured surface. Cutting the hole will also leave a rough edge with chipped wood.

As far as brim cutting/oval shape, I think I'll order a LO band block from RA, form a brim break, cut the brim, then insert the slightly egg oval band block to form the new brim break.

Plywood works fine. I use the 'good one side' and it is totally smooth.....with a good blade in the jig saw the cut is smooth and a pass with some sand paper takes care of any rough edges. I have used it on about dozen hats so far and it works great. The problem with putting legs on it is the plywood would then need to be thick enough so as not to flex when the pressure is applied in the ironing of the brim. I use lots of pressure so the legs would need to be secure and the wood thick. I haven't discovered a downside to doing it my way....at least so far.

 

[T Jones]

Plywood works fine. I use the 'good one side' and it is totally smooth.....with a good blade in the jig saw the cut is smooth and a pass with some sand paper takes care of any rough edges. I have used it on about dozen hats so far and it works great. The problem with putting legs on it is the plywood would then need to be thick enough so as not to flex when the pressure is applied in the ironing of the brim. I use lots of pressure so the legs would need to be secure and the wood thick. I haven't discovered a downside to doing it my way....at least so far.

In Roofing, when we were putting down new plywood, it was rough side up and smooth side down, for obvious reasons. So, yup, plywood has a smooth side and a rough side.

 

[belfastboy]

In Roofing, when we were putting down new plywood, it was rough side up and smooth side down, for obvious reasons. So, yup, plywood has a smooth side and a rough side.

I used my prototype in the pics and it is rough on both sides. It was just a piece of scrap laying around. It works fairly well even with the roughness especially with the thicker beaver felts. The thinner millinery grade rabbit the roughness shows through. When I get motivated I will cut another out of GOS plywood.....the expensive stuff.

 

[Gobi]

My rough plan is to order my block with the three holes, drill out the holes on a sheet of plywood, insert short dowels into holes so the block can lock into place if I need to attack the brim from the top, or if I need to secure the hat to cut the brim.
Use another sheet of plywood as a normal flange and put legs on it.

Question:
I would like to attempt a kettle curl on a hat, what would be the best flange to use prior to curling the edge? I would like to do a flat flange but I worry the flatness will work against what I'm trying to accomplish. It seems to be easier to achieve a curl if the flange is already somewhat curved. Thoughts?

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

@Gobi

Join two thicker pipe cleaner together, wrap around the head and then join together at the forehead. If you wriggle it off gently you will have the pipe clearners formed into the shape of your head.

I initially used and had decent results using a flexible ruler like this one: https://www.amazon.com/LONG-TAO-Flexible-Curve-Design/dp/B06ZZ58RTL/ref=sr_1_4?crid=VXUQZM21DLDY&dchild=1&keywords=flexible+ruler+24+inch&qid=1601349816&sprefix=flexible+ruler,aps,283&sr=8-4

See if you can find a hatter who uses a conformer/conformateur and have them make a band block.

Mike Miller of Northwest Hats uses a conformateur.

Those that are interested in getting their own conformateur can do so from following:
- For the Jaxonbuilt plastic conformer, you can call Kathy at Cowboy Corral in Grants Pass, OR
- Mike Miller worked with a designer (Gary Dawson) to create two conformateurs and a formillion (one is very expensive at $1,232 and the other is about $225): Visit https://www.garydawsondesigns.com/hat-making-tools.html#/

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I like @belfastboy method of raising the floor here. I use it when I want to reduce the overall crown height.

What if there was only one set of legs and you could just switch out the different boards.

Yes, this is essentially what a flange stand is all about. In fact you could use the flange stand and then make your own flat flanges. https://hatterssupplyhouse.com/flange-stand-please-email-your-order/

As an alternative, you could do what I have done. I use some craft wood rounds that I picked up at Lowe's Home Improvement. The first one I use with a hat block. The second one I use with a band block, it also on a rotary bearing so the whole thing spins and I use it with the rounding jack to cut the brim.

 

[belfastboy]

My rough plan is to order my block with the three holes, drill out the holes on a sheet of plywood, insert short dowels into holes so the block can lock into place if I need to attack the brim from the top, or if I need to secure the hat to cut the brim.
Use another sheet of plywood as a normal flange and put legs on it.

Question:
I would like to attempt a kettle curl on a hat, what would be the best flange to use prior to curling the edge? I would like to do a flat flange but I worry the flatness will work against what I'm trying to accomplish. It seems to be easier to achieve a curl if the flange is already somewhat curved. Thoughts?

I am in my kettle curl phase....having made 4 of them in the last 3 months. All have been flanged flat and then had the curl applied. I also like a bit of dip in the front and back and that is easy to do with steam after the curl is in place. In the second pic the sweat has just been basted so the pink baste thread is visible....not visible in the finished hat.

 

[belfastboy]

@Gobi


I initially used and had decent results using a flexible ruler like this one: https://www.amazon.com/LONG-TAO-Flexible-Curve-Design/dp/B06ZZ58RTL/ref=sr_1_4?crid=VXUQZM21DLDY&dchild=1&keywords=flexible+ruler+24+inch&qid=1601349816&sprefix=flexible+ruler,aps,283&sr=8-4



Mike Miller of Northwest Hats uses a conformateur.

Those that are interested in getting their own conformateur can do so from following:
- For the Jaxonbuilt plastic conformer, you can call Kathy at Cowboy Corral in Grants Pass, OR
- Mike Miller worked with a designer (Gary Dawson) to create two conformateurs and a formillion (one is very expensive at $1,232 and the other is about $225): Visit https://www.garydawsondesigns.com/hat-making-tools.html#/



I like @belfastboy method of raising the floor here. I use it when I want to reduce the overall crown height.



Yes, this is essentially what a flange stand is all about. In fact you could use the flange stand and then make your own flat flanges. https://hatterssupplyhouse.com/flange-stand-please-email-your-order/

As an alternative, you could do what I have done. I use some craft wood rounds that I picked up at Lowe's Home Improvement. The first one I use with a hat block. The second one I use with a band block, it also on a rotary bearing so the whole thing spins and I use it with the rounding jack to cut the brim.

View attachment 265536 View attachment 265537

That is great...a Lazy Susan....except for hats!

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

Question:
I would like to attempt a kettle curl on a hat, what would be the best flange to use prior to curling the edge? I would like to do a flat flange but I worry the flatness will work against what I'm trying to accomplish. It seems to be easier to achieve a curl if the flange is already somewhat curved. Thoughts?

Curls are done with curling shackles/curling iron
- https://www.hatblocks.co.uk/product/curling-iron/
- https://www.jwrhats.com/tooling/ (see the bottom of the page for the curling irons)
Finding vintage irons are few and far in between.