Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[belfastboy]

@Gobi


I initially used and had decent results using a flexible ruler like this one: https://www.amazon.com/LONG-TAO-Flexible-Curve-Design/dp/B06ZZ58RTL/ref=sr_1_4?crid=VXUQZM21DLDY&dchild=1&keywords=flexible+ruler+24+inch&qid=1601349816&sprefix=flexible+ruler,aps,283&sr=8-4



Mike Miller of Northwest Hats uses a conformateur.

Those that are interested in getting their own conformateur can do so from following:
- For the Jaxonbuilt plastic conformer, you can call Kathy at Cowboy Corral in Grants Pass, OR
- Mike Miller worked with a designer (Gary Dawson) to create two conformateurs and a formillion (one is very expensive at $1,232 and the other is about $225): Visit https://www.garydawsondesigns.com/hat-making-tools.html#/



I like @belfastboy method of raising the floor here. I use it when I want to reduce the overall crown height.



Yes, this is essentially what a flange stand is all about. In fact you could use the flange stand and then make your own flat flanges. https://hatterssupplyhouse.com/flange-stand-please-email-your-order/

As an alternative, you could do what I have done. I use some craft wood rounds that I picked up at Lowe's Home Improvement. The first one I use with a hat block. The second one I use with a band block, it also on a rotary bearing so the whole thing spins and I use it with the rounding jack to cut the brim.

View attachment 265536 View attachment 265537

I decided to go with cutting the hole as I was discovering that I was having difficulty getting the full 6" crown height out of some of the felts....between 5 1/2" t0 5 5/8" so cut the hole. If I do get the full 6" I have a board with the dowel inserted to match the block.

 

[belfastboy]

Curls are done with curling shackles/curling iron
- https://www.hatblocks.co.uk/product/curling-iron/
- https://www.jwrhats.com/tooling/ (see the bottom of the page for the curling irons)
Finding vintage irons are few and far in between.

I love my Guy Morse Brown curling shackle...Hatblocks.co.uk. Easy to use, great results and I love its versatility....only having to buy the one instead of a complete set.

 

[belfastboy]

I love my Guy Morse Brown curling shackle...Hatblocks.co.uk. Easy to use, great results and I love its versatility....only having to buy the one instead of a complete set.

I would loved to have bought my blocks from him but he is damned expensive......settled on Jerzy out of Poland. A little hard to deal with but his product is first rate.

 

[Gobi]

Another question:
I never considered block size vs finished hat size. I always assumed if you block a hat in size 61, you'll get a size 61 hat. I was reading on here that you typically need to use a size up block to accommodate the sweatband. I spoke with the folks at hatters supply house and they stated that a size 60 block will make a size 60 hat prior to sweatband installation. So... do hat makers use a size up or do they sell their hats as the size they were blocked? Or do they all do it differently? That would explain why some hat makers run big or run small.

Also, if I were to do a size 61 hat, I would need a size 62 block and band block plus a size 61 band block to use post sweatband installation?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Another question:
I never considered block size vs finished hat size. I always assumed if you block a hat in size 61, you'll get a size 61 hat. I was reading on here that you typically need to use a size up block to accommodate the sweatband. I spoke with the folks at hatters supply house and they stated that a size 60 block will make a size 60 hat prior to sweatband installation. So... do hat makers use a size up or do they sell their hats as the size they were blocked? Or do they all do it differently? That would explain why some hat makers run big or run small.

Also, if I were to do a size 61 hat, I would need a size 62 block and band block plus a size 61 band block to use post sweatband installation?

Short answer: your block should be one size bigger than the finished hat size in order to accommodate the space the sweatband takes up.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/buying-hat-blocks-what-does-one-need-to-know.74078/

 

[jlee562]

Another question:
I never considered block size vs finished hat size. I always assumed if you block a hat in size 61, you'll get a size 61 hat. I was reading on here that you typically need to use a size up block to accommodate the sweatband. I spoke with the folks at hatters supply house and they stated that a size 60 block will make a size 60 hat prior to sweatband installation. So... do hat makers use a size up or do they sell their hats as the size they were blocked? Or do they all do it differently? That would explain why some hat makers run big or run small.

Also, if I were to do a size 61 hat, I would need a size 62 block and band block plus a size 61 band block to use post sweatband installation?

"Size 60 prior to sweatband installation" means finished size 59, it's a distinction without much differentiation. Ideally the block should be 1/4" more than your actual head measurement, this usually means one size up from your hat size.

Yes, you need two band blocks, one the size of the block, and one a size smaller.

If you're wanting a size 61 hat, you need a size 62 block, a 62 band block, and a 61 band block.

 

[Frunobulax]

"Size 60 prior to sweatband installation" means finished size 59, it's a distinction without much differentiation. Ideally the block should be 1/4" more than your actual head measurement, this usually means one size up from your hat size.

Yes, you need two band blocks, one the size of the block, and one a size smaller.

If you're wanting a size 61 hat, you need a size 62 block, a 62 band block, and a 61 band block.

For the blocks I have, a 7 1/4 or 6 7/8 block makes a hat body big enough to insert a sweatband to achieve a 7 1/4 or 6 7/8 hat. I don't use a 7 3/8 block to make a 7 1/4 hat. All of the blocks I have are this way. Is your experience different?

 

[jlee562]

For the blocks I have, a 7 1/4 or 6 7/8 block makes a hat body big enough to insert a sweatband to achieve a 7 1/4 or 6 7/8 hat. I don't use a 7 3/8 block to make a 7 1/4 hat. All of the blocks I have are this way. Is your experience different?

Apparently?

I've only built the two hats from the one Randal Alan block, so perhaps I am speaking out of turn, but that's how it worked for me. I have a 57cm block and made a 56cm sized hat.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

For the blocks I have, a 7 1/4 or 6 7/8 block makes a hat body big enough to insert a sweatband to achieve a 7 1/4 or 6 7/8 hat. I don't use a 7 3/8 block to make a 7 1/4 hat. All of the blocks I have are this way. Is your experience different?

Interesting. Art was a big proponent of using the actual measurements rather than the stamped block size.

Just a few days ago I asked Michael Gannon what block he used for my hats since I measure 61.5cm (between 7 5/8 and 7 3/4). Michael told me he uses a new Hatters Supply House block in size 7 7/8 so a size and a half bigger than my hat size. My Gannon hats fit well, but I can feel that they are slightly larger than some of my other hats. Michael also told me that if I wanted to reblock his hats without removing the sweatband then a 7 5/8 block would be his best guess, but maybe a 7 3/4. It’s apparently not as straightforward as one would think it should be.

 

[T Jones]

Another question:
I never considered block size vs finished hat size. I always assumed if you block a hat in size 61, you'll get a size 61 hat. I was reading on here that you typically need to use a size up block to accommodate the sweatband. I spoke with the folks at hatters supply house and they stated that a size 60 block will make a size 60 hat prior to sweatband installation. So... do hat makers use a size up or do they sell their hats as the size they were blocked? Or do they all do it differently? That would explain why some hat makers run big or run small.

Also, if I were to do a size 61 hat, I would need a size 62 block and band block plus a size 61 band block to use post sweatband installation?

I have a HSH block for a size 7 1/4. The circumference of that block is a 1/4 inch larger than my actual hat size to make room for sweat installation. My other 7 1/4 blocks, a couple that are vintage, measure the same. Good Lord! It's not complicated! If the block maker doesn't already know this, then find another block maker. Measure your head with a cloth tape and give that measurement to the person who's making your block. Also specify your oval. Like I said, the person making your block 'should' know what you need based on the measurements and oval shape you give him.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I have a HSH block for a size 7 1/4. The circumference of that block is a 1/4 inch wider than my actual hat size to make room for sweat installation. My other 7 1/4 blocks, a couple that are vintage, measure the same. Good Lord! It's not complicated! If a block maker doesn't already know this, then find another block maker. Measure your head with a cloth tape and give that measurement to the person who's making your block. Also specify your oval. Like I said, the person making your block 'should' know what you need based on the measurements and oval shape you give him.

Terry, your experience seems to jive with Jim’s, but it’s not what either Art said when I was looking to buy some of his vintage blocks when he retired or what Gannon just told me a few days ago regarding new Hatters Supply House blocks. I agree that if you tell the block maker what size hat you want to make they should calculate the sweatband thickness in and give you the right size block. However, I’m definitely not a size 7 7/8, but that is the size of the HSH block Gannon uses to make my hats and that are between 7 5/8 to 7 3/4.

When I think of blocks I try to think of actual circumference measurements rather than block hat sizes.

 

[belfastboy]

Guys, care to show a few images on your hat making? Appreciate in advance

The light grey is one I made for my wife the other two were for male clients.

 

[belfastboy]

For the blocks I have, a 7 1/4 or 6 7/8 block makes a hat body big enough to insert a sweatband to achieve a 7 1/4 or 6 7/8 hat. I don't use a 7 3/8 block to make a 7 1/4 hat. All of the blocks I have are this way. Is your experience different?

Yes my experience is different but not sure if any 'rule' can be gleaned from it. I ordered my blocks from Poland. I ordered them in centimetres and have a set of long oval 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61,62. These are the actual measurements. So if I am making a hat for my size 59 head I block it on a size 60 block to allow for the sweat installation. I drum the sweat just slightly and it fits perfectly.

 

[T Jones]

Terry, your experience seems to jive with Jim’s, but it’s not what either Art said when I was looking to buy some of his vintage blocks when he retired or what Gannon just told me a few days ago regarding new Hatters Supply House blocks. I agree that if you tell the block maker what size hat you want to make they should calculate the sweatband thickness in and give you the right size block. However, I’m definitely not a size 7 7/8, but that is the size of the HSH block Gannon uses to make my hats and that are between 7 5/8 to 7 3/4.

When I think of blocks I try to think of actual circumference measurements rather than block hat sizes.

Actually, I went off what Art suggested too and I consider the block circumference as well. I think there's a thread where we had this discussion about block sizes and Art suggested that the block be a 1/4 inch larger than your hat size...and like I said in my previous post, that's what my blocks are, per Art's suggestion, and my vintage blocks are the same way and are marked 7 1/4 but are a 1/4 larger in circumference than my hat size...and yes, block makers should know what a person needs based on the information he's given.

 

[jlee562]

For posterity:

It's been my experience that the markings on the blocks are often wrong, as you are experiencing. Best rule of thumb, use a block 1/4" bigger than you need for the hat. Pay no attention to the sizing on the block itself. As you can see, Beaver brands liked more room in their 7 1/8 , what appears to be 23 1/2 but should be 22 3/4 for an 7 1/8th. ( sweat measurement ID 22 1/2). Same with flanges also but aren't quite as critical. I have a block marked 7 5/8 but measures 23 3/8, clearly a 7 3/8.

Should be 23 to 23 1/8 for correct fit. There can always be slight overages and still make it work but in an ideal situation it should be no more than 3/8 " bigger than the ID of the sweat

Guys, care to show a few images on your hat making? Appreciate in advance

I utterly forgot to document the making process in any real way, which I regret, but will do so in the next build.

But here's the hood:



Finished hat:

 

[belfastboy]

For posterity:







I utterly forgot to document the making process in any real way, which I regret, but will do so in the next build.

But here's the hood:



Finished hat:

nice work. Is that the Fepsa? What colour? I have the Cypress and thinking of getting a Buckskin while Tim still has stock

 

[jlee562]

nice work. Is that the Fepsa? What colour? I have the Cypress and thinking of getting a Buckskin while Tim still has stock

that's the cypress FEPSA. So easy to work with, it felt like cheating. I might snag one more as well if Tim still has some. I bought a moonshine right when he announced there would be no more. I'm waiting to build that one until I get a good 52 block. I may just order another Randal Alan for sake of ease.

 

[belfastboy]

that's the cypress FEPSA. So easy to work with, it felt like cheating. I might snag one more as well if Tim still has some. I bought a moonshine right when he announced there would be no more. I'm waiting to build that one until I get a good 52 block. I may just order another Randal Alan for sake of ease.

I emailed with Tim yesterday and he still has good stock on the Fepsa....all colours available in the XL at least. I have a set of #52 blocks on the way but from Poland so it has taken a while but they are close.

 

[T Jones]

For posterity:

Yup. I remember that conversation. In fact, as I said previously, my vintage blocks that are stamped 7 1/4 are exactly 1/4 inch larger than my actual hat size, per Art. In any event, it's not always the rule that the size marked on the block





I utterly forgot to document the making process in any real way, which I regret, but will do so in the next build.

But here's the hood:



Finished hat:

For posterity:







I utterly forgot to document the making process in any real way, which I regret, but will do so in the next build.

But here's the hood:



Finished hat:

Nice one!

 

[KarlEscobar10]

Good day gents! I'm planning to buy a brim curler from Randal Alan and wanted to ask which size is best for an average sized curl? I'm debating between the 1/2 and the 5/8 ones. I was thinking if I get the 5/8 one I would have the range to do the smaller curls all the way up to the max that the 5/8 curl can do. Is my logic right on that? Would love some advice on this!