Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[humanshoes]

Hi humanshoes. Yes, elegant indeed. Thanks for sharing this photo. I've downloaded the PDF of this book and I feel it is necessary reading for our craft. Thank you for your reply

You're more than welcome. Even though some of the terms in the book are a bit archaic, it's definitely a valuable tool in the arsenal.

 

[Gobi]

I'm thinking of placing an order at hatter's supply house for a block and flange as well as a few tools. They offer a finish on the wood, is that a good idea?
Does the flange slip down over top and rest on top of the brim or does the brim rest on top of the flange? I was thinking the brim sat on top bit then wouldn't that eat up some of the block height?

 

[BobHufford]

I'm thinking of placing an order at hatter's supply house for a block and flange as well as a few tools. They offer a finish on the wood, is that a good idea?
Does the flange slip down over top and rest on top of the brim or does the brim rest on top of the flange? I was thinking the brim sat on top bit then wouldn't that eat up some of the block height?

They are separate steps. The flange would sit on a stand and the hat inserted crown down.

 

[T Jones]

They are separate steps. The flange would sit on a stand and the hat inserted crown down.

View attachment 260187

Correct you are, Bob

 

[T Jones]

 

[Gobi]

They are separate steps. The flange would sit on a stand and the hat inserted crown down.

View attachment 260187

Thanks, that makes sense. I have a basic understanding of the processes but I'm trying to wrap my brain around all the tools.

 

[jlee562]

Thanks, that makes sense. I have a basic understanding of the processes but I'm trying to wrap my brain around all the tools.

If you haven't read Scientific Hat Finishing, start there.
https://archive.org/details/scientifichatfin00erma

You'll need a flange stand as well, although you can probably rig something up yourself if you have basic woodworking skills.

 

[Gobi]

At this point in the book, the brim would be pressed with the sand bag. What do you use? Can it just be ironed? I'll most likely be using a flat flange which temps me to just cut a hole in a table.

 

[Gobi]

If you haven't read Scientific Hat Finishing, start there.
https://archive.org/details/scientifichatfin00erma

You'll need a flange stand as well, although you can probably rig something up yourself if you have basic woodworking skills.

Thank you. I read through the applicable parts. It's a little confusing in spots. I'll have to read it a couple more times.

 

[T Jones]

At this point in the book, the brim would be pressed with the sand bag. What do you use? Can it just be ironed? I'll most likely be using a flat flange which temps me to just cut a hole in a table.

Iron it.

 

[crhIndyfan]

Re. Trimming the brim, sanding around the edge.
Hi guys, this may sound a little finickity, but would anybody be able to offer me some advice about sanding the brim edge after cutting the brim to size.
I have used a knife and bonsai scissors, and I am interested in knowing the optimum grit (multiple grits, like when sanding the body??) for smoothing out the edge of the hat after trimming the brim to size.

 

[Gobi]

I'm getting ready to order my supplies, I havent decided which company/companies to order from. I noticed on Hat Blocks Australia, they talk about their crown height to head size ratio. I haven't heard mention of this from any other maker. I thought it was interesting. Here is their comment on crown height:
"As standard, our crown heights increase incrementally across a size range, ensuring that the crown shape remains the same throughout a size run. This means that you could make the identical hat in both a 55 cm, through to a 65 cm crown size.

For example: 58 cm = 152 mm tall (6") - crowns smaller than this will be incrementally shorter and crowns larger will be incrementally taller.

If we were to keep the same height throughout the range, your smallest crowns would look too tall and skinny and your largest crowns would look to short and squat, thus, making your hats look funny!"

 

[jlee562]

I'm getting ready to order my supplies, I havent decided which company/companies to order from. I noticed on Hat Blocks Australia, they talk about their crown height to head size ratio. I haven't heard mention of this from any other maker. I thought it was interesting. Here is their comment on crown height:
"As standard, our crown heights increase incrementally across a size range, ensuring that the crown shape remains the same throughout a size run. This means that you could make the identical hat in both a 55 cm, through to a 65 cm crown size.

For example: 58 cm = 152 mm tall (6") - crowns smaller than this will be incrementally shorter and crowns larger will be incrementally taller.

If we were to keep the same height throughout the range, your smallest crowns would look too tall and skinny and your largest crowns would look to short and squat, thus, making your hats look funny!"

This was basically the 'issue' some folks were having with some of the earlier versions of the Herbert Johnson rebooted Indy Poets. The "screen accurate" proportions of Harrison Ford's hat doesn't work on everybody. It's a tall crown and very boxy. With the graduated set of blocks, my 56cm/size 7 was aprox. 5 1/8" open crown. 'On paper,' this seemed like a short crown...the block I ordered from Randal Alan was 5 3/4" for example, but with the Indy Poet block, it actually works quite well for me.

 

[belfastboy]

my important learning was to take great pains to remove any puckers in the brim felt under the cloth. Taking the time to smooth out any puckers the first time, before the felt dries, saves sooo much time in the long run.

 

[belfastboy]

I'm getting ready to order my supplies, I havent decided which company/companies to order from. I noticed on Hat Blocks Australia, they talk about their crown height to head size ratio. I haven't heard mention of this from any other maker. I thought it was interesting. Here is their comment on crown height:
"As standard, our crown heights increase incrementally across a size range, ensuring that the crown shape remains the same throughout a size run. This means that you could make the identical hat in both a 55 cm, through to a 65 cm crown size.

For example: 58 cm = 152 mm tall (6") - crowns smaller than this will be incrementally shorter and crowns larger will be incrementally taller.

If we were to keep the same height throughout the range, your smallest crowns would look too tall and skinny and your largest crowns would look to short and squat, thus, making your hats look funny!"

I get around this by ordering my blocks in shorter heights then I can cut my own extensions to the blocks and add and subtract as I wish...matching the crown height to the client and the brim width. The block extensions are just attached with painters tape which hold them in place and do not leave a residue when removed. This way, out of one block, I get the flexibility of multiple blocks at very little added expense.

 

[Gobi]

Hatters Supply House is a little difficult to get ahold of, their business hours are the same as my work hours and they dont seem to respond to emails. They dont really have an order form on their site, it says to email them.

To get started I plan on getting:
#52 block 6 inch height. Size 61 LO
Size 61 LO band block (they dont actually list band blocks on their site.)
Possibly a close fitting hat stretcher instead of band block.
4" flat brim flange (why not just cut a whole in a piece of wood or table? I might do that)
Pusher downer, puller downer, string
Brim cutter possibly from RA.
How does that sound? Am I missing anything essential?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hatters Supply House is a little difficult to get ahold of, their business hours are the same as my work hours and they dont seem to respond to emails. They dont really have an order form on their site, it says to email them.

To get started I plan on getting:
#52 block 6 inch height. Size 61 LO
Size 61 LO band block (they dont actually list band blocks on their site.)
Possibly a close fitting hat stretcher instead of band block.
4" flat brim flange (why not just cut a whole in a piece of wood or table? I might do that)
Pusher downer, puller downer, string
Brim cutter possibly from RA.
How does that sound? Am I missing anything essential?

They do offer band blocks:

https://hatterssupplyhouse.com/band-blocks-please-email-your-order/

I just placed an order for a flange from them. I called and left my number and they called back the next day. It was all easy and straightforward.

 

[belfastboy]

Hatters Supply House is a little difficult to get ahold of, their business hours are the same as my work hours and they dont seem to respond to emails. They dont really have an order form on their site, it says to email them.

To get started I plan on getting:
#52 block 6 inch height. Size 61 LO
Size 61 LO band block (they dont actually list band blocks on their site.)
Possibly a close fitting hat stretcher instead of band block.
4" flat brim flange (why not just cut a whole in a piece of wood or table? I might do that)
Pusher downer, puller downer, string
Brim cutter possibly from RA.
How does that sound? Am I missing anything essential?

In the last 6 months I have been slowly outfitting my shop. Your list is fairly complete but if you plan on using a flange you need a flange stand. I made my own for $20 and if you PM me your email I will send pics. If I want to flange a flat brim I did just cut a hole in a piece of 'good one side' plywood, 2'x2', precut at Home Depot. Used the block as the template to cut the hole. The downside is you need the block to insert a bit into the hole so you lose that much height on the block. I used 3/8" ply so ended up with 5 5/8" height crown. Use the crown string and set it at the correct height. Works very well with lots of ironing to flatten. I tend to put on pencil curls to give the brim more structural strength. I love the Guy Morse Brown curling shackle out of Bristol UK. His works really well and is the most reasonably priced.

Iron, steamer, sanding blocks, white abrasive pads to finish, coconut oil if you want to do luring as a finishing step, shellac if you want stiffener, denatured alcohol if you expose the shellac core and need to drive it deeper into the felt.

 

[belfastboy]

In the last 6 months I have been slowly outfitting my shop. Your list is fairly complete but if you plan on using a flange you need a flange stand. I made my own for $20 and if you PM me your email I will send pics. If I want to flange a flat brim I did just cut a hole in a piece of 'good one side' plywood, 2'x2', precut at Home Depot. Used the block as the template to cut the hole. The downside is you need the block to insert a bit into the hole so you lose that much height on the block. I used 3/8" ply so ended up with 5 5/8" height crown. Use the crown string and set it at the correct height. Works very well with lots of ironing to flatten. I tend to put on pencil curls to give the brim more structural strength. I love the Guy Morse Brown curling shackle out of Bristol UK. His works really well and is the most reasonably priced.

Iron, steamer, sanding blocks, white abrasive pads to finish, coconut oil if you want to do luring as a finishing step, shellac if you want stiffener, denatured alcohol if you expose the shellac core and need to drive it deeper into the felt.

Oh, and a most important and expensive tool is the rounding jack to trim the brim to size or to even it out.

 

[jlee562]

You could probably jury rig a flat flange if the a completely flat brim is what you want. But the inside hole of the flange is convex to allow for the trimmings, and there is a bottom indentation on the outside to secure a hatter's cord.

I would say you need a foot tolliker more than a runner down. It's nice that the runner is notched for a hatter's cord, but could you use literally anything to push the cord down to the brim break? Yes.