Goodwear Jackets why the attraction

[torfjord]

I think we also use the term authenticity in different ways. By authentic I have not generally been referring to authentic reproductions but rather the authenticity inherent in a hand made, crafted product.

Many people think the modern world is plastic and soulless and there's a common view that mass-produced things are inadequate. The boom in artisan made artifacts in so many areas is a testament to this.

One of the key things I believe which attracts buyers to Goodwear and Himel, for instance, is the idea that there is a highly skilled master craftsman behind the product which makes the unique finished item more genuine or authentic. Owning it is a way of rebelling from the mainstream, ready-to-wear blandness of modern life. In a way, it's a celebration of individualism and creativity - two factors so sadly starved by the grey technocratic world so many of us inhabit.

This pursuit of authenticity has been a bit of a thing for a few years now and the hipster phenomenon has been wrapped up in this too. It is certainly an attractive or comforting idea to own objects that are not factory made and off the shelf. Finding a way to make the world special again is surely one of the roles of bespoke clothing?

Beautifully put. I think you’re absolutely right.


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[Bulldozer]

After seeing all the pictures of Goodwear jackets being posted here and reading the discussions on authenticity, I'm absolutely convinced that the main reason for the allure is the wait. It was funny reading one poster saying that back in the day, the rarity was not a psychological factor because you only had to wait 1-2 years to get one. And it seems the maker makes customers wait for communication as well -- emails don't get answered in over a week, phone calls almost never get answered, etc, which makes it all the more pleasing when communication eventually comes through!

May hold true now but back then quite a number of us were able to get one within a year or two. No deposit was required back then. Those who did were quick to compare their GWs with Aeros and Eastmans. I don't think their praise on GW were bias that they were affected by the "Unobtainium" back then.

 

[Blackadder]

After seeing all the pictures of Goodwear jackets being posted here and reading the discussions on authenticity, I'm absolutely convinced that the main reason for the allure is the wait. It was funny reading one poster saying that back in the day, the rarity was not a psychological factor because you only had to wait 1-2 years to get one. And it seems the maker makes customers wait for communication as well -- emails don't get answered in over a week, phone calls almost never get answered, etc, which makes it all the more pleasing when communication eventually comes through!

That was me. If you factor in the fact that all custom makers talked about here have waiting periods from 3 months to a year. I waited four months for my White's custom boots and three months for my Bill Kelso which is not custom. GW wasn't overwhelmed with order back then.

Having said that I also would like to say I never own a GW partly because of the wait. I didn't even enjoy waiting 4 months for my White's so GW is not for me. I am not fetish over quality. I buy H&M and Uniqlo stuffs all the time but I do recognize the difference in quality. As I am sitting typing this, I am wearing a henley I bought at wholesale price of 600yen. I bought 8 of these. It is the Japanese equivalent of Fruit of the Loom. Mass produced for other companies to add or print whatever whatever they want on them to resell.

I have not read anything about communication problem either back in the day. You can see that all the "old" customers all had nice experience talking to John. As said GW wasn't overwhelmed with order back then. Would be easier to simply tell people to go and read the various GW threads from 2010 to 2014 but that is not very polite or practical, is it?

As to the common view that modern mass produced goods have gone down hill. Many spoke from experience. Some may just be followers. I used to love Ralph Lauren Purple Label shirts before I went bespoke owing to weight gain. After I lost the weight and went back to off the shelf, I went shopping and saw with own eyes how the quality has gone down. Same things happened with a lot of companies. As said I am not much for queuing and waiting. I would love to just go to the shop and grab the mass produced goods but sadly a lot of the brands I used to love have gone downhill. I used to buy tons of Abercrombie Tees and Sweats but they also started to cut corners to survive. This may have to do with the rise of the fast fashion brands.

It is also funny for some people to simply dismiss the quality of GW without even touching one. I can understand it is a feeling from looking at photos. I usually just skim through the Brooks and Lesco photos in a thread because I don't like the feel and look of 60s leather jackets but then I never handled a Brooks or Lesco so I don't dismiss them because of my feeling. I can understand how some people prefer thick leather like CXL to shiniki. There are however also people who is the opposite. We have gone down the road of which is the best leather before. To me it is simply taste. People have different taste in different things. To some, GW looks more refine than Aero. To others Aero is sturdier than a GW.

 

[sweetfights]

Here is a shot of my Arcadia:
View attachment 204134
I wore it out to breakfast this morning and got lots of compliments. Full disclosure: The compliments came from my mom and my cousin who pretty much only say nice things about me.

Out of this world gorgeous. WOW!!!!

 

[sweetfights]

Here is a shot of my Arcadia:
View attachment 204134
I wore it out to breakfast this morning and got lots of compliments. Full disclosure: The compliments came from my mom and my cousin who pretty much only say nice things about me.

What leather is this??? And colour??

 

[J Leather Investigater]

Thanks @El Marro ! This seems very likely how it will go

Actually its john d's Arcadia not el marro's. But i bought it from you though reg

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[jonbuilder]

As requested...

I am envious

 

[regius]

Actually its john d's Arcadia not el marro's. But i bought it from you though reg

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I’m very sorry!!! It was late!!


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[J Leather Investigater]

I’m very sorry!!! It was late!!


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Np buddy, i love the jacket thx!! The natural cxl is developing next to none, its my patina jacket that is insanely made, oh yea the patterns great to[emoji106]

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[sweetfights]

Actually its john d's Arcadia not el marro's. But i bought it from you though reg

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Jackets do not get better looking than this!!!
Unreal.

 

[J Leather Investigater]

Jackets do not get better looking than this!!!
Unreal.

Thx Jarrod, i love everything about this one, especially the corduroy lined cuffs an collar !

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[El Marro]

What leather is this??? And colour??

sweetfights,
The leather is Italian horsehide from the same tannery used by Eastman, according to John. It was originally dark seal and John applied a reddish dye on top of this. I wanted to get a hint of cordovan in the finish and I think he accomplished this perfectly.

 

[willyto]

sweetfights,
The leather is Italian horsehide from the same tannery used by Eastman, according to John. It was originally dark seal and John applied a reddish dye on top of this. I wanted to get a hint of cordovan in the finish and I think he accomplished this perfectly.

I find that ironic. People are throwing compliments all over on the GW that uses the same leather as Eastman does(Which is amazing) yet Eastman for some is not even on pair with GW when it comes to leather, details, stitching,etc.

Quite funny actually!

That GW is amazing but this shows how some people are blind when it comes to John.

I don’t think we have seen a better A1 for example that the one from @Dav which AFAIK is Eastman and they are the only ones who own an original.

Same goes with their other jackets. They have a lot of originals and side by side compared shots. So how is it that they aren’t accurate nor historical authentic enough for some?

I have never seen anyone complain about their quality, they are readily available and some people keep dismissing them as if they aren’t good enough.

 

[regius]

About Eastman: the wool knits are the most shapeless & loose, easily pulled, the pocket corner stitching didn’t seem to be strong & the flap corner tend to separate after some scraping from bag straps, this may be very rare & have now improved, & just because they compare side by side doesn’t mean it’s accurate. For me, their collars are the least and consistently inaccurate component, but its just me.


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[Superfluous]

After seeing all the pictures of Goodwear jackets being posted here and reading the discussions on authenticity, I'm absolutely convinced that the main reason for the allure is the wait.

Not sure how the consistent praise coupled with photos of superlative jackets leads to the conclusion that neither matters and the actual allure is the wait, but if the non-sequitur satisfies your preordained inquiry, so be it.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Not sure how the consistent praise coupled with photos of superlative jackets leads to the conclusion that neither matters and the actual allure is the wait, but if the non-sequitur satisfies your preordained inquiry, so be it.

I tend to agree Super. I think the wait may make some people feel the jackets are more precious or exotic, but that would have far less impact than the fact they look great and have a fantastic rep.

 

[Superfluous]

I tend to agree Super. I think the wait may make some people feel the jackets are more precious or exotic, but that would have far less impact than the fact they look great and have a fantastic rep.

For me, personally, the wait is purely a negative that detracts from the allure. As much as I love my two GW jackets, I am not on the list for another. I don't have the patience. Thus, the wait adds nothing of value from my perspective. Himel jackets are readily available with a two month wait, and equally desirable to me. Hence the reason why I continue to purchase Himel jackets in lieu of the five year wait for another GW.

 

[Seb Lucas]

For me, personally, the wait is purely a negative that detracts from the allure. As much as I love my two GW jackets, I am not on the list for another. I don't have the patience. Thus, the wait adds nothing of value from my perspective. Himel jackets are readily available with a two month wait, and equally desirable to me. Hence the reason why I continue to purchase Himel jackets in lieu of the five year wait for another GW.

Totally agree - I'd make the same choice. I actually am a fan of David's work, ever since I found his initial blog years ago - possibly before the Fedora lounge. It was actually David's work on the history and aesthetics of jackets that got me onto Brimaco's, Bucos and Brooks cafe racers. Hey, maybe I only want jackets starting with B...

 

[Carlos840]

To me the attraction was knowledge...
The reason i buy from all these different manufacturers is to see how things are made differently, to see how high craftsmanship can be pushed, when i heard that JC was "the best" i just had to get one so i could see it with my own eyes. It had nothing to do with exclusivity, price, wait time, it was about knowing if what people said was true.

My experience was as follow:

Nov 2015 order is placed, i am told wait time is under two years, deposit is paid.
Feb 2018 i send an email asking for an update, receive a long answer telling me it all went to crap but "I'll be faster in answering, as we have the ball rolling"

This was the end of all communication for me. Between February 2018 and April 2019 i sent John 5 emails, all were ignored. When i heard on TFL the problem was shinki availability i sent an email saying i would take any other hide if it sped things up, that was ignored too.
(Over the years i tried calling maybe 5 or 6 times too but the phone was not answered once.)

Whilst he was ignoring my emails i kept reading on the TFL that he was answering other people within hours when it came to taking more deposits, still promising a 12 to 18 months delivery (i had been waiting 3 and a half years by then, @Boyo 5, others longer), he was answering within hours if it regarded selling jackets from the sales page, and he also answered promptly to a few TFL chosen ones, who one way or another have a direct line to JC and for a reason or another deserve to get their orders quicker...

On February 29th 2019 i had become so annoyed by the whole situation that i sent an email asking for a refund, that one was answered within minutes, and i got refunded. The refund was accompanied by a lengthy email, blaming his problems on everything and anything.

To me this is no way to do business, i have said it before, but i think JC is basically currently running what is close to a deposite scam. The guy is taking money promising people something he knows he cannot deliver whilst making just enough jackets to please a few and make it look like he is on top of things.
Unless he is in a financial situation where he could refund his 5 year backlog, he is living on deposits that he obtains through lies.

I never experienced the cool, friendly, talkative JC, all i experienced was dishonesty and incompetence.

 

[red devil]

To me the attraction was knowledge...
The reason i buy from all these different manufacturers is to see how things are made differently, to see how high craftsmanship can be pushed, when i heard that JC was "the best" i just had to get one so i could see it with my own eyes. It had nothing to do with exclusivity, price, wait time, it was about knowing if what people said was true.

My experience was as follow:

Nov 2015 order is placed, i am told wait time is 12-18months, deposit is paid.
Feb 2018 i send an email asking for an update, receive a long answer telling me it all went to crap but "I'll be faster in answering, as we have the ball rolling"

This was the end of all communication for me. Between February 2018 and April 2019 i sent John 5 emails, all were ignored. When i heard on TFL the problem was shinki availability i sent an email saying i would take any other hide if it sped things up, that was ignored too.

Whilst he was ignoring my emails i kept reading on the TFL that he was answering other people within hours when it came to taking more deposits, still promising a 12 to 18 months delivery (i had been waiting 3 and a half years by then, @Boyo 5, others longer), he was answering within hours if it regarded selling jackets from the sales page, and he also answered promptly to a few TFL chosen ones, who one way or another have a direct line to JC and for a reason or another deserve to get their orders quicker...

On February 29th 2019 i had become so annoyed by the whole situation that i sent an email asking for a refund, that one was answered within minutes, and i got refunded. The refund was accompanied by a lengthy email, blaming his problems on everything and anything.

To me this is no way to do business, i have said it before, but i think JC is basically currently running what is close to a deposite scam. The guy is taking money promising people something he knows he cannot deliver whilst making just enough jackets to please a few and make it look like he is on top of things.
Unless he is in a financial situation where he could refund his 5 year backlog, he is living on deposits that he obtains through lies.

I never experienced the cool, friendly, talkative JC, all i experienced was dishonesty and incompetence.

My situation is pretty similar, it was mainly curiosity that drove me to put down a downpayment. And same as you I have not experienced his positive attitude. He evades direct contact as much as possible from what I have gathered, unless it is someone he favours.