Goodwear Jackets why the attraction

[Carlos840]

Construction quality above Aero isn’t really quality but just an unnecessary embellishment that little adds to the overall desirability of the jacket.

Prices above Aero are just hyped up and not really reflective of a superior product, etc. I can’t remember where but I recently read someone claiming that he likes some more expensive maker’s jackets but he’s unwilling to spend more than an Aero. As if Aeros were cheap?!

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Seriously? That sounds extremely judgmental and shortsighted....

 

[jonbuilder]

I going to attempt to follow up on the jacket quality discussion raised in the tread Boyo started when he posted his new Goodwear Hercules jacket, hopefully without offending anyone.

I remember being attracted to the look of adventures wearing leather jackets in 1950s movies, and the look of fighter piolets in post-world world 2 movies. These were rugged men of adventure wearing jackets that looked like they could be living and sleeping in them. The jackets did not look bespoken custom tailored. Searching for lost treasure in remote parts of the world, big game hunting, surviving in the wild these men were considering not the stitching or how far their jacket helm was below their belt. Johnny was not talking about how much his Perfects weighed with the café waitress or his riding bodies.

Somehow trying to qualify the direness of a leather jacket to the precision of construction, or precise fit guidelines loses the reason I was originally attracted to leather jackets. The most import thing to me is the feel of the jacket, does it look good from 6 feet away. I am 70 years old. Yesterday I was having a beer at the counter of a bar in a restaurant. It was not very busy and I caught the waitress, a very attractive woman 10 years younger than my daughter, watching me from the end of the bar. The only thing I could think of, she was looking at my leather jacket.

I do not know what my point is, other than what makes leather jackets attractive does not fit into an objective definition that fits the majority.

 

[ton312]

The most import thing to me is the feel of the jacket, does it look good from 6 feet away.

This is the most important thing for me! Regardless of material, leather, cotton canvas whatever. Even if everything else is “perfect”, failing this test sends it out expeditiously!

 

[Grayland]

I discovered this site via Styleforum. I'd never heard of Aero, LW, GW, or Eastman. Aero was (and continues to be) the favored son of TFL. I bought an Aero LHB in brown FQHH of eBay and still have the jacket. I love it. I started to read about GW (as it seemed to be the holy grail here) and placed a deposit to get a Ventura. I care nothing about his military jackets. Really liked the Ventura and it didn't seem like anyone else offered that pattern, or in a lighter (than FQHH) veg tanned leather. The only issue I had with the Ventura is that the sleeves were a bit big IMO. I bought a used Rainbow Country Single Rider and that jacket actually fit me better than the GW, so I sold the GW. The RC was spectacular, but the russet color wasn't my favorite. I found a GW Imperial on Denimbro and it fit pretty much exactly like the RC, but in a dark seal color. I was told that the sleeves had been slimmed (not sure if JC did it). I sold the RC and kept the GW.

I care about fit, esp. through the armholes and sleeves. My experience is that the off the rack Japanese jackets fit me about as good as it gets - better even than my custom made GW Ventura. I don't get all excited about stitch count or perfect stitching. If it looks good from a few feet away, I'm fine with that. I've had/have: Aero, GW, LW, Himel, Rainbow Country, RMC, and Fine Creek (High Large). Liked them all for different reasons and don't consider any of them better built than the others. They will each last me a lifetime.

If I had the opportunity to buy a GW Arcadia, I would do it in a heartbeat. Haven't seen that pattern anywhere else. I damn sure wouldn't wait 5 years for it though. It tickled me to see the second-hand GW Imperial sell at (basically) full retail in about 10 minutes the other day. It seems I made an investment in my GW.

 

[handymike]

@Grayland Yes, JC did the sleeve-work on your jacket. Your particular jacket is also the most beautiful color! When it first arrived at my house, my wife actually commented: “I can see why you spent $1000, it’s really amazing!”
I’d love to see how it looks now.

 

[El Marro]

El Marro’s epic brown Arcadia was from me.

regius,
You must have mine confused with a different Arcadia because mine came directly from John. I sourced the lining myself and the color of the hide is an overdye that John made based on our conversation.

 

[Blackadder]

I don’t quite understand the authenticity factor when the jackets are basically custom.

I can’t think of any A2 produced in sizes as big as 46-50 as something Authentic when pilots and aircrew members where needed to be slim and in shape. There goes the authenticity/ historical accuracy factor and same goes with the patterns, if it’s a custom A2 it can’t be authentic because military items were RTW to specs given.

I can understand details like the snaps, hardware, zippers, liners, knits,etc. But historical accuracy goes out the window when one introduces pattern changes, bespoke measurements and such changes.

I don’t think anyone has questioned GW quality but instead the delays involved and his priorities when it comes to getting back to people. Also I actually see the opposite, many people claiming that GW is the ultimate maker and taking a crap on other makers which run a better business model and produce amazing products which are put into question.

I don't think you need to go into the pattern. The leather used today is definitely not authentic already. I doubt anyone is making leather like they do in the 1940s given today's health and safety standards on the chemicals and processes used.

Repro makers like Buzz, RM, FW all who are making repros of WW2 peacoat are using melton wool and not kersey cloth because of the advancement in the manufacturing process and the breeding of sheep (no one is going back to using those scraps of wool that get pressed into Kersey cloth). Yet I would buy a Buzz in stead of a Schott peacoat (both melton wool) base on the "authenticity" (in my eyes the style and attention).

Nothing reproduced today will be truly authentic if one just take a look at the materials. Cotton used today is genetically engineered. A pair of LVC 1937 is not authentic repro even though it uses Cone Mills cloth and old sewing machine because no one could find a farmer who grows cotton the 1930s way (those who wanna try would go bankrupt within months).

The level of authenticity your specified cannot be achieved even if the original company is making the same product. So makers and customers come to what they deem second best, then third best.

As many have suggested, the QC required during wartime is bare minimal but does it mean customers today would want the makers to leave the QC to bare minimal in order to achieve authenticity? There are Japanese repro makers who deliberately copied the flaws, the irregular stitching etc. To me that is too much. Just like the GW "authenticity" is considered too much for some of us here. Having said that, even those Japanese repro makers will never be able to achieve your kind of authenticity. They put in their time to research cloth, the texture etc and came up with something similar. That's all.

 

[handymike]

This is the jacket @regius is talking about:

 

[Blackadder]

This is an important, key step in the development of a man's sense of style: realizing that fussing over tiny details and chasing perfection is hopeless, unmanly, and a waste of time.

Lol. I just hate waiting more than anything. I had to go bespoke because I couldn't find a off the rack suit or shirt that fits. Talking about fussing over tiny details I am still looking to buy a Brigg umbrella despite owning a few Fox.

 

[mr_lits]

Part of the allure of GW is that John is a craftsman and a owner/operator entrepreneur. His communications are in and of themselves a boon to his business. Every time I get an email from John, about a jacket he is working on for me or just a communication, I am excited to see what he is working on. He is communicative (with me) and I always enjoy our exchanges. His materials are bar none and his craftsmanship is of the highest caliber. I have owned many of his jackets, some of which I have moved on and others which I will be buried with. Waiting for his jackets is a hardship but one that comes with great reward once you receive his work. All in all people like GW because of John... his efforts to replicate patterns, his strive for perfection, and his amenable personality. Ironically of the four GW's that will never leave my collection none happen to be A2s... still waiting for my forever A2.

 

[rockandrollrabbit]

I have not owned a Goodwear, yet, but I was in the queue for one.

A little story.

Upon taking possession of my Aero Bronco in August of 2018, I had the A-2 bug, and I immediately started thinking of the next one. I had become familiar with John's reputation through this forum, so going to him was the next logical step. After thinking about what I wanted, I spoke with him on the phone (and was pleasantly surprised when it was none other than him who answered) and put down a $400 deposit on a Dubow 27798.

Cut to 9 months later. A different fever had set in. I had an A-2 already, but I didn't have a civilian jacket in heavy Chromexcel. My fever was for a Bootlegger, and it was a strong one. I'm not struggling to get by, but I'm not rich either, and to square the expense of the Bootlegger, I knew what I had to do.

I emailed John, saying it was with a heavy heart that I had to unfortunately cancel my order, and may I please have a refund for my deposit. Remember I had put down $400, instead of the required $200. A few days, possibly almost a week, went by, and nothing. I didn't freak out, I know the guy's slammed busy, but clearly I'm going to have to give him a ring.

And I wasn't looking forward to it. It shouldn't be a big deal, but somehow, after the conversation we'd had, in which he took the time to talk to me for 20 minutes about the jacket and my options for getting the fit and look that I wanted, and here I am cancelling and asking for my money back, and well, I kind of felt like a shmuck.

And 5 seconds on the phone with John showed me my fears were unfounded. He was completely cool about it, he remembered my email when I reintroduced myself on the phone, and said Not a problem Matt. He didn't have the slightest annoyance in the world about it, and later that day the money was back in my account. All of this is a long winded way of saying that John is a very cool guy. What does this have to do with the quality of his jackets? Nuthin'. But as someone else in this thread pointed out, John's personality and reputation are intertwined with his business and how the community feels about his products.

This isn't a story about being one of John's customers, it's a story about *almost* being one of John's customers, and nevertheless coming away from the experience feeling that the guy's a class act, and knowing it's a matter of time until I'm a customer for real.

In the meantime, I'm still in the grips of Bootlegger fever. Getting ready to order the next one.

 

[jonbuilder]

Part of the allure of GW is that John is a craftsman and a owner/operator entrepreneur. His communications are in and of themselves a boon to his business. Every time I get an email from John, about a jacket he is working on for me or just a communication, I am excited to see what he is working on. He is communicative (with me) and I always enjoy our exchanges. His materials are bar none and his craftsmanship is of the highest caliber. I have owned many of his jackets, some of which I have moved on and others which I will be buried with. Waiting for his jackets is a hardship but one that comes with great reward once you receive his work. All in all people like GW because of John... his efforts to replicate patterns, his strive for perfection, and his amenable personality. Ironically of the four GW's that will never leave my collection none happen to be A2s... still waiting for my forever A2.
View attachment 204050

I would love to see you post your jackets

 

[mr_lits]

As requested...

 

[red devil]

I have not owned a Goodwear, yet, but I was in the queue for one.

A little story.

Upon taking possession of my Aero Bronco in August of 2018, I had the A-2 bug, and I immediately started thinking of the next one. I had become familiar with John's reputation through this forum, so going to him was the next logical step. After thinking about what I wanted, I spoke with him on the phone (and was pleasantly surprised when it was none other than him who answered) and put down a $400 deposit on a Dubow 27798.

Cut to 9 months later. A different fever had set in. I had an A-2 already, but I didn't have a civilian jacket in heavy Chromexcel. My fever was for a Bootlegger, and it was a strong one. I'm not struggling to get by, but I'm not rich either, and to square the expense of the Bootlegger, I knew what I had to do.

I emailed John, saying it was with a heavy heart that I had to unfortunately cancel my order, and may I please have a refund for my deposit. Remember I had put down $400, instead of the required $200. A few days, possibly almost a week, went by, and nothing. I didn't freak out, I know the guy's slammed busy, but clearly I'm going to have to give him a ring.

And I wasn't looking forward to it. It shouldn't be a big deal, but somehow, after the conversation we'd had, in which he took the time to talk to me for 20 minutes about the jacket and my options for getting the fit and look that I wanted, and here I am cancelling and asking for my money back, and well, I kind of felt like a shmuck.

And 5 seconds on the phone with John showed me my fears were unfounded. He was completely cool about it, he remembered my email when I reintroduced myself on the phone, and said Not a problem Matt. He didn't have the slightest annoyance in the world about it, and later that day the money was back in my account. All of this is a long winded way of saying that John is a very cool guy. What does this have to do with the quality of his jackets? Nuthin'. But as someone else in this thread pointed out, John's personality and reputation are intertwined with his business and how the community feels about his products.

This isn't a story about being one of John's customers, it's a story about *almost* being one of John's customers, and nevertheless coming away from the experience feeling that the guy's a class act, and knowing it's a matter of time until I'm a customer for real.

In the meantime, I'm still in the grips of Bootlegger fever. Getting ready to order the next one.

I wonder by what miracle you managed to get him on the phone... I tried calling him a year or so ago and never got to him.

 

[rockandrollrabbit]

I wonder by what miracle you managed to get him on the phone... I tried calling him a year or so ago and never got to him.

Yeah, I don't know. Now that I think about it, I talked to him a couple times actually.

 

[red devil]

Yeah, I don't know. Now that I think about it, I talked to him a couple times actually.

You got lucky

 

[El Marro]

Here is a shot of my Arcadia:

I wore it out to breakfast this morning and got lots of compliments. Full disclosure: The compliments came from my mom and my cousin who pretty much only say nice things about me.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I think we also use the term authenticity in different ways. By authentic I have not generally been referring to authentic reproductions but rather the authenticity inherent in a hand made, crafted product.

Many people think the modern world is plastic and soulless and there's a common view that mass-produced things are inadequate. The boom in artisan made artifacts in so many areas is a testament to this.

One of the key things I believe which attracts buyers to Goodwear and Himel, for instance, is the idea that there is a highly skilled master craftsman behind the product which makes the unique finished item more genuine or authentic. Owning it is a way of rebelling from the mainstream, ready-to-wear blandness of modern life. In a way, it's a celebration of individualism and creativity - two factors so sadly starved by the grey technocratic world so many of us inhabit.

This pursuit of authenticity has been a bit of a thing for a few years now and the hipster phenomenon has been wrapped up in this too. It is certainly an attractive or comforting idea to own objects that are not factory made and off the shelf. Finding a way to make the world special again is surely one of the roles of bespoke clothing?

 

[Grayland]

Here is a shot of my Arcadia:
View attachment 204134

Yes please!

 

[Bulldozer]

After seeing all the pictures of Goodwear jackets being posted here and reading the discussions on authenticity, I'm absolutely convinced that the main reason for the allure is the wait. It was funny reading one poster saying that back in the day, the rarity was not a psychological factor because you only had to wait 1-2 years to get one. And it seems the maker makes customers wait for communication as well -- emails don't get answered in over a week, phone calls almost never get answered, etc, which makes it all the more pleasing when communication eventually comes through!

May hold true now but back then quite a number of us were able to get one within a year or two. No deposit was required back then. Those who did were quick to compare their GWs with Aeros and Eastmans. I don't think their praise on GW were bias that they were affected by the "Unobtainium" back then.