Formal Wear Primer

[Chasseur]

Tie is a little off center by the end of the night again...

1940s Palm Beach dinner jacket

 

[Marc Chevalier]

'
By far the best tuxedos worn at the Oscars ceremony this year: Tom Hanks's and Colin Firth's. Hanks's tuxedo in particular was outstandingly tailored to him.

 

[fluteplayer07]

I haven't seen Firth's, but Tom Hanks' was splendid. I believe he had a shawl lapel with a double breasted jacket if my memory from last night serves me correctly?

On another note, I've been looking for silk laces that are appropriate with patent oxfords... G.J. Cleverley & Co. in the UK has them for 20 pounds, roughly $30 US. Do anyone know of a place that sells some for a more economical price?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I haven't seen Firth's, ...

Not great photos, but the best I could find. Same with the tuxedos: they have their problems, but they're better than any of the others seen at the Oscars last night.

 

[herringbonekid]

... both by Tom Ford apparently.

 

[Midnight Blue]

It was interesting to see how popular shawl collars were at the Oscars as they've been relatively rare on the red carpet as of late. I've done a fairly extensive review of the Oscar tuxedos on my blog for those who are interested.

 

[dhermann1]

Thanks for that link. You pretty well sum up the situation. I had noticed the waistcoat length issue with Billy's outfit, but not the other faux pas. Time was when the Oscars was a white tie event. Sigh.
I have seen actors, and other performers (composers, etc.) utterly botch and butcher the formal wear look SO many times. They should really give a course in how to dress to all actors. Sheesh.

 

[dnjan]

It was interesting to see how popular shawl collars were at the Oscars as they've been relatively rare on the red carpet as of late. I've done a fairly extensive review of the Oscar tuxedos on my blog for those who are interested.

You were very kind to the Host. I spent some time at the beginning of the show trying to figure out who/what he was trying to spoof.

 

[Tomasso]

Time was when the Oscars was a white tie event. Sigh.

I think that it's been established somewhere in this thread that at its dressiest the MC and those presenting awards wore White Tie and all others wore Black Tie.

 

[Two Types]

Some evening wear adverts:

Moss Bros, 1939:

Austin Reed, 1930:

Burtons, 1939:

 

[dhermann1]

OK, here's a question regarding footwear. I know that opera pumps are the "preferred" foot wear for both white tie and black tie, with patent leather cap toes as a popular second choice. How about these black patent leather slip ons? No bow, but otherwise the look similar to opera pumps.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250981172131?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

 

[Patrick Hall]

Personally I think they look fine. Most folks these days seem to eschew patent leather entirely and just buff up their black calfskin oxfords. So you're ahead of the game, even if they aren't Mary-Janes! Another interesting option is velvet slip-ons. RL seems to be favoring this look in their catalogues.

OK, here's a question regarding footwear. I know that opera pumps are the "preferred" foot wear for both white tie and black tie, with patent leather cap toes as a popular second choice. How about these black patent leather slip ons? No bow, but otherwise the look similar to opera pumps.

 

[Midnight Blue]

OK, here's a question regarding footwear. I know that opera pumps are the "preferred" foot wear for both white tie and black tie, with patent leather cap toes as a popular second choice. How about these black patent leather slip ons? No bow, but otherwise the look similar to opera pumps.

I would still qualify these as being more formal than patent-leather lace-ups because of their lack of clutter and exposed working parts.

 

[dhermann1]

Here's a picture which I find interesting. It shows Franklin Roosevelt, Herbert Lehman and Al Smith, three consecutive governors of New Yotk State. This would have been taken maybe around 1932, before FDR became president.
They're all wearing morning suits, or cutaways. Both Lehman's and FDR's coats have notch collar lapels, they both wear flat collars, dark single breasted waistcoats (presumably of the same material as the coat), and regular ties with four in hand knots. Only Al Smith wears a peak lapel coat, with the double breasted waist coat and the wing collar. All three wear black cap toe shoes with broguing. I find this instructive.
For all the talk around here of the peak lapel being the only proper style for a morning coat, I doubt very much if FDR's tailor would have let him go out in public in a cutaway that was not perfectly proper. And this is not 1962, it's 1932.
BTW, I suspect the cigar was also part of Al Smith's required dress code as much as any other part.

 

[dhermann1]

I think this might be a good spot to float a suggestion here. The "Formal Wear Primer" thread has grown way past the point of being merely a primer. It is now a full forum for discussion of all the many nuances of mens formal wear in general. And boy are there a lot of nuances. I think it's time for Formal Wear to have its own forum, with separate threads on White Tie, Black Tie and Morning wear. Any thoughts?
And maybe a link to the Hats forum for questions regarding Toppers and other formal wear hats.

 

[MB15]

Hello
I've seen many vintage Cutaway Coats, and many of them have the notch lapel, altough most of them have peaked lapels. I think it was more a choice of personal taste then an formal rule, like it's now. When you have many occasions to wear your morning dress, then you may want to look slightly different then all the other wearers. Be it with darker/lighter pants, wing-collar/normal shirt-collar, ascot/tie, you just want to difference yourself from the others, trying not to look too much uniformed. In case of FDR's Morning Coat, it could be just that idea, to differente him from the other gentlemen with their coats. Mens formal wear is almost an uniform, so you just try to look a little bit different from all the other uniformed men around you.
Greetings
Marco

 

[Cobden]

Most morning coats were notch lapelled, it appears, until the 30's. I think the need for peaked lapels was only really "codified" after the pic was taken

 

[Patrick Hall]

Yes - I thought peak lapels became the norm when Morning Wear moved up the ladder of formality. I would guess that transition took decades and probably wasn't REALLY complete until the second half of the century.

 

[Undertow]

I think this might be a good spot to float a suggestion here. The "Formal Wear Primer" thread has grown way past the point of being merely a primer. It is now a full forum for discussion of all the many nuances of mens formal wear in general. And boy are there a lot of nuances. I think it's time for Formal Wear to have its own forum, with separate threads on White Tie, Black Tie and Morning wear. Any thoughts?
And maybe a link to the Hats forum for questions regarding Toppers and other formal wear hats.

I think you're right. This thread has, itself, become a forum. Granted, there's no way to split out what has already been written into seperate threads, but I think it would be much more effective to have a separate forum titled "Occassions" or "Dressing for Events" with individual threads. Something along those lines.

I vote for a new forum.

 

[Yeps]

I vote for a new forum.

I agree. I love subdivisions and organization. They make life so much more neat and friendly.