Formal Wear Primer

[Brunathacliath]

Fair play to you Quirel as it actually works that way!

Not exactly easy to fasten, but at least the button is out of sight. Now I'll have to switch to classy drinks rather than my habit of drinkings pints of beer as it's not the kind of fly you want to have to unfasten every 15 minutes if you know what i mean. Hook and bar+ button fly + inside tab with button + the "weird button"!

Thanks guys, problem solved!

 

[fluteplayer07]

I could use some opinions...

I'm trying to find a good pair of patent leather shoes for my black tie ensemble. I think I've narrowed it down to two pairs. The Allen Edmonds Mayfair, or the lace ups from Brooks Brothers.

I purchased the BB formal pumps a while ago but the size wasn't right, so it's between lace ups now.

Both pairs are the around the same price, and they should be about evenly matched in terms of quality. I am leaning towards the BB due to the styling around the tongue (not sure how to describe it); see how the AE's are kind of like patent leather bluchers? I think the BB's are a tad more formal, I suppose like a pair of oxfords (balmorals?) in that the tongue is entirely enclosed and covered by the shoe uppers. Or does black tie inherently favor the minimalist styling provided by the Allen Edmonds?

Any opinions are welcomed and appreciated. Thanks.

 

[dhermann1]

All I can tell you is that when I was looking for black patent leather lace-ups, I found a pair of very nice Florsheims that the seller had worn exactly once. I got them for $30. Just sayin'.

 

[filfoster]

I missed this somewhere in the 132 previous pages. Well, my lips just got tired.
I plan to wear a double breasted peak lapel tuxedo/dinner jacket soon.
Two questions: 'roll over' collar shirt or wing collar? (would prefer the roll over)
Shirt cuffs: links of course but French or barrel type cuffs for studs?

 

[AntonAAK]

A double breasted dinner jacket, being a less formal variety, would look better with a turn-down collar. Wing collars are best saved for single peak jackets with a waistcoat and then should be of the stiff, separate collar variety.

I would favour French cuffs but I believe that either would be correct.

 

[fluteplayer07]

I'd say a turndown collar since its a more casual double breasted jacket. If it were a single breasted one button peak lapel, then you could wear the more formal (detachable!) wing collar shirt. The reason is because in the early days of the tuxedo when it had recently diverged from the tailcoat, the same shirt and studs (and white waistcoat) were worn for lack of accessories designed specifically for black tie. Later onyx studs, a more casual turndown collar, and black waistcoat were adopted for dinner jackets. I'm not sure of the rules for sleeves.

Edit: looks like I was beat to the punch!

 

[filfoster]

I'd say a turndown collar since its a more casual double breasted jacket. If it were a single breasted one button peak lapel, then you could wear the more formal (detachable!) wing collar shirt. The reason is because in the early days of the tuxedo when it had recently diverged from the tailcoat, the same shirt and studs (and white waistcoat) were worn for lack of accessories designed specifically for black tie. Later onyx studs, a more casual turndown collar, and black waistcoat were adopted for dinner jackets. I'm not sure of the rules for sleeves.

Edit: looks like I was beat to the punch!

Anyone have a reasonably priced source for the shirt with detachable wing collar? (not for this occasion but I also have a single breasted peak lapel tux-and the execrable notch lapel, too but that is another story).

 

[dhermann1]

T M Lewin makes a very serviceable ATTACHED wing collar shirt, that's also reasonably priced.
http://www.tmlewin.co.uk/Wing-Colla...gid=Evening&prefn1=categoryCIMS&prefv1=Shirts

 

[filfoster]

T M Lewin makes a very serviceable ATTACHED wing collar shirt, that's also reasonably priced.
http://www.tmlewin.co.uk/Wing-Colla...gid=Evening&prefn1=categoryCIMS&prefv1=Shirts

Thank you, Dhermann1! I have a similar shirt and it seems fine. I am reading a lot of hoo haw on these threads and on another forum (named after someone called Andy) that seems to favor the detachable collars. I really don't know why.

 

[Qirrel]

Thank you, Dhermann1! I have a similar shirt and it seems fine. I am reading a lot of hoo haw on these threads and on another forum (named after someone called Andy) that seems to favor the detachable collars. I really don't know why.

They think that the detachable collar is somehow magically able to take more starch than an attached one. The benefits of detachable collars don't really matter when you have one shirt, which you wear once or twice before laundering it yourself.

 

[AntonAAK]

It's not just the floppiness of the collar which is an issue (it is) but the height of the collar and the stiffness of the shirt front. They are fine for more modern looking black tie rigs and sell in their millions so I am not going to criticise anyone for choosing to wear one.

But if you want a truly vintage looking evening rig...

This however is something I can currently only aspire to so I stick with a soft shirt and turn down collar.

 

[dhermann1]

Here's how I looked last year with my white tie outfit, including the Lewin shirt.

If you ignore the waistcoat bulging a little, you'll see that the collar looks perfectly fine. But I do agree that the detachable collar will still look better.

 

[fluteplayer07]

Short attached collars may have the stigma of being a product of the 70's and 80's wing tip collar phase... When they were made embarrassingly short and of inferior quality than the detachable collared shirts... Not to mention the dreadfully unattractive soft pleats on the bib. Detachable collars can be found in much higher styles, I've seen ones as tall as 2 1/2" and 2 1/4", creating a much smarter appearance than the cheap versions from tuxedo rental shops. Another plus is the ability to switch between a turndown and a wingtip collar while keeping the same shirt body, for either black or white tie.

 

[Chasseur]

Opening of opera season last night:
My 1950s Vintage After Six by Rudofker midnight blue tails, vintage Harrod's marcella waistcoat, vintage Swank MOP studs and cufflinks set, vintage 1913 Dunlop high silk hat, 1890s Hampden pocket watch, modern marcella shirt, bow tie and collar from Darcy, Alen Edmunds captoe oxfords shined up to glow! I need a little more starch in the marcella and somehow the tie got off center during the course of the evening...

 

[WH1]

Opening of opera season last night:
My 1950s Vintage After Six by Rudofker midnight blue tails, vintage Harrod's marcella waistcoat, vintage Swank MOP studs and cufflinks set, vintage 1913 Dunlop high silk hat, 1890s Hampden pocket watch, modern marcella shirt, bow tie and collar from Darcy, Alen Edmunds captoe oxfords shined up to glow! I need a little more starch in the marcella and somehow the tie got off center during the course of the evening...

OUTSTANDING SIR!!!! Well done.
Any photos with the distaff side? I am envious that you have a venue to attend dressed in such sartorial splendor. Was anyone else dressed in traditional opening night attire?

 

[Chasseur]

Thank you for the kind words!

The attire is quite varied at the Hawaii Opera, ranging from black tie and ball gowns to shorts and slippers (flip flops to mainlanders). There was one other fellow in a top hat actually. On Fridays nights there is a group that tends to be quite well turned out: black tie or dark suits, women in gowns etc. So its quite the evening by Honolulu standards.

 

[filfoster]

Opening of opera season last night:
My 1950s Vintage After Six by Rudofker midnight blue tails, vintage Harrod's marcella waistcoat, vintage Swank MOP studs and cufflinks set, vintage 1913 Dunlop high silk hat, 1890s Hampden pocket watch, modern marcella shirt, bow tie and collar from Darcy, Alen Edmunds captoe oxfords shined up to glow! I need a little more starch in the marcella and somehow the tie got off center during the course of the evening...

Point, set and match. This is probably as good as it could get. Well done. I must confess our Opera draws attire as varied as this to the aforementioned flip flops and frankly, as long as they are there to enjoy the magic of opera, does it matter at all?

 

[AntonAAK]

Opening of opera season last night:
My 1950s Vintage After Six by Rudofker midnight blue tails, vintage Harrod's marcella waistcoat, vintage Swank MOP studs and cufflinks set, vintage 1913 Dunlop high silk hat, 1890s Hampden pocket watch, modern marcella shirt, bow tie and collar from Darcy, Alen Edmunds captoe oxfords shined up to glow! I need a little more starch in the marcella and somehow the tie got off center during the course of the evening...

Outstanding, sir! :eusa_clap

 

[Chasseur]

Wh1, filfoster and Anton, thank you for the the kind words!

 

[Chasseur]

Continuation of opera season last night, Don Pasquale and it was a fun production.

Late 1950s black tie dinner suit by Burton: