Five Star Leather Jackets

[Eddiesuave]

I expect Aero or Thurston would outright take the jacket back if they'd sold it with the wrong measurements confirmed to you.

That is the difference between 5* and Aero. But no really I actually prefer the measurement that came out in the end. As I said I am very happy.

 

[Aloysius]

That is the difference between 5* and Aero. But no really I actually prefer the measurement that came out in the end. As I said I am very happy.

My point is it’s not really accurate to say that as though it’s a normal practice at Aero.

I will even recommend some 5 Star stuff, with caveats, but they’ve deliberately shared the wrong measurements on several occasions.

 

[MrProper]

For me, there is a difference between giving measurements that come from a certain way of measuring and taking photos in which I manipulate the tape measure or the jacket so that the desired measurements are displayed.
The former is perhaps sloppiness or simply a different understanding of measuring, the latter is tantamount to fraud.

 

[Aloysius]

For me, there is a difference between giving measurements that come from a certain way of measuring and taking photos in which I manipulate the tape measure or the jacket so that the desired measurements are displayed.
The former is perhaps sloppiness or simply a different understanding of measuring, the latter is tantamount to fraud.

Precisely. The intention is key.

Denim shops or other sellers inexperienced with leather getting the PTP wrong, annoying but excusable.

Quirks on official measuring charts like some makers including collar height in back length while others don’t, just something to clarify.

Actively manipulating the jacket or tape to look like the wrong measurement? Fraud. (And, incidentally perhaps someone should mention to Five Star next time they do it, categorically prohibited in Islam. Perhaps it will be a spiritual shock to the system.)

 

[Marc mndt]

Five * vs Monarch

@KBlake can you see and feel the difference in pattern?

 

[PilotJens]

The curves are more elegant and the leather drapes much better .That is also one downside of their leathers they are kind of rubbery in a sense that they spring back to their original form . They also make the cuffs way too thick which flares them out .
At the end of the day their patterns and production methods are cost optimized.However I think some problems are less prominent with lots of wear and a good conditioner .

Can maybe a few people post the sleeve seams of their jackets ?
Tell me if you specified all dimensions or took a stock sleeve .
I want to get to the bottom of it

 

[PilotJens]

Also one more thing I noticed is the sleeve attachment to the body .Five star angles them very low like on a fabric suit jacket and other make them almost in line with the shoulder "slope" .

Doesn't that also prohibit movement?
Low armholes create space for your bicep and elbow but the low angle creates a limited upward movement.

High armholes create more upward movement but pulls the sleeve closer to your elbow which makes the sleeve restrictive because it lacks the rounded curve that allows your arms to glide though the sleeve .Even with a slimmer cut .


Is someone interested in me trying to test these assumptions with a jacket with identical measurements but trying to request those changes?

I know others have tried to convince them but hey maybe 10 times is the charm

 

[MrProper]

High armholes create more upward movement but pulls the sleeve closer to your elbow which makes the sleeve restrictive because it lacks the rounded curve that allows your arms to glide though the sleeve .Even with a slimmer cut .

I cannot confirm this. I have several jackets with high armholes and don't find that anything restricts them. On the contrary, I find the freedom of movement excellent, especially with tight jackets.

 

[PilotJens]

I don't mean that they restrict movement.I mean that the sleeves hug more the back of your arms .
I want to understand the principals of different patterns .
I think low and high arm holes have a certain "formula" that should not be mixed together if that makes sense .

 

[JDarwin52]

Here’s some fit pics of my new 1930’s HB in brown pull up horsehide, 1.4mm thick. Started out scary stiff and restrictive, but starting to loosen up and behave. Can’t get into the weeds much on the finer points of fit but I like it!
Oh I did mess with the cuffs a bit with a requested 5.25” laid-flat dimension. Felt a bit tight. Any distortion you see is probably due to my thermos-stuffing treatment. And my left hand is smaller with less muscle tissue due to an old motorcycle injury.

 

[JDarwin52]

In retrospect, my problem with the 5.25” cuff were more related to difficulty of arm entry. A move to the smoother nylon lining vs stock cotton would have likely made it a non-issue.

 

[KBlake]

Five * vs Monarch View attachment 577807
View attachment 577808

@KBlake can you see and feel the difference in pattern?

Yes, actually it’s more apparent from the back and with the jacket zipped.

I don’t have a photo of the back but the shape is very masculine. My only concern with this jacket fit is the sleeves.

 

[Marc mndt]

Yes, actually it’s more apparent from the back and with the jacket zipped. View attachment 578011

I don’t have a photo of the back but the shape is very masculine. My only concern with this jacket fit is the sleeves.

Your Monarch looks absolutely amazing, I would be more than happy with this fit but I get your concern. If you'd order a custom jacket today you'd add at least an inch to those sleeves.

Short body and sleeves are part of the vintage deal though. Do know that the sleeves on this Monarch are already quite long at 25.5". It'd be next to impossible to find a vintage jacket with longer sleeves.

I have learned to embrace it as part of the vintage deal. When the jacket as a whole looks cool, who cares about short sleeves?!

 

[MrProper]

I mean that the sleeves hug more the back of your arms

Not for me either. I probably have too thin arms or the sleeves are wide enough despite the high armholes.

 

[mysternee]

Team!

First-time poster, been lurking for a bit though. Want some advice on putting together an A2 order from 5*. First of all, I should say that I'm aware of all the issues, and I'm also in the process of ordering a Half Belt Deluxe from Aero. The idea is to use that as my daily/about town jacket. It's the main event, so to speak.

The idea behind getting an A2 from 5* is that I do a fair bit of casual travel these days, and need to replace an old, flaking sheepskin beater that is predictably giving up the ghost after 15 years. I want a comfy, blousy jacket that's tough and cheap enough that I can throw it around without worrying about it. Stow it away, stuff it in a backpack, that kind of thing. But I have a few questions I thought I'd put to the seasoned 5* vets of TFL!

The first thing I'd like input on is the leather. I want to get the premium goat, ideally in some kind of brown, mostly for the durability. My instinct is seal, but the few shots I've seen of the crystal brown samples make it look quite nice. Is the premium goat even available in those colors? And if it is, how does the crystal look in reality? Also, some people appear to have gotten it waxed. What's the upside of that exactly?

Secondly, I've read that 5* fitting can be all over the shop, but that the military reproductions are more/relatively reliable. BUT I want hand warmer pockets because I am a filthy casual like that. So my idea was to order a specific reproduction and just ask for hand warmer pockets to be added. What I want to avoid are:

1) giant goofy flared collars
2) epaulettes that are on my collarbone

Obviously it's 5* so there's always a risk, but which A2 model is most likely to have neither of the above? The collar on the Broncos seems alright, but some people seem to end up with epaulettes on their chest. As above, I'd also like the fit to be fairly blousy and roomy in the sleeves, so I can layer if I want (just in case that's a consideration). I'm not bothered about historical accuracy etc, just want a comfortable jacket that's practical and doesn't look wonky.

Any and all input greatly appreciated. Cheers!

 

[Aloysius]

No to the Bronco, that one is not based on an original. (This is important not because of 'historical accuracy' but because that way it has a good pattern, rather than an in-house Five Star pattern.)

Are you sure you want an A-2 rather than a Navy jacket? The latter have superior patterns in every respect. The A-2 was basically the budget alternative at the time (the Army had a lower budget per item than the Navy did.)

In any case, Rough Wear is generally considered a blousier fit among A-2s and Five Star's is patterned on an original, so that could be a solid option.

But the Navy design does everything better. The H&L Block model is patterned on an original, so check that out. For comfort, this is gonna win out over the A-2.

 

[mysternee]

No to the Bronco, that one is not based on an original. (This is important not because of 'historical accuracy' but because that way it has a good pattern, rather than an in-house Five Star pattern.)

Are you sure you want an A-2 rather than a Navy jacket? The latter have superior patterns in every respect. The A-2 was basically the budget alternative at the time (the Army had a lower budget per item than the Navy did.)

In any case, Rough Wear is generally considered a blousier fit among A-2s and Five Star's is patterned on an original, so that could be a solid option.

But the Navy design does everything better. The H&L Block model is patterned on an original, so check that out. For comfort, this is gonna win out over the A-2.

I had actually intended to say that I'm open to a G1 base (and actually attracted to the extra space and movement features at the back), provided I can 1) get a modest collar without the fur, 2) get the shorter 3" knits (without thereby messing up the jacket length), and 3) get my aforementioned filthy casual hand warmers. I was leaning A2 mainly because it seemed like the less risky option, but you're right that the G1 could also fit the bill. I just wrote the whole thing out in one go and forgot to mention it!

But yes, as you say the idea is to take a jacket with a good base pattern, then make in changes from there, in the hope that reduces the scope for disappointment. So point me to a G1 if you think it fits the bill!

 

[Aloysius]

But yes, as you say the idea is to take a jacket with a good base pattern

The moment you introduce changes, the cat is out of the bag as far as visual proportions (if you’re very lucky) pattern (most likely), even if they seem like small changes to you.

Just my 2¢

At this price point (excluding the secondary market) you should consider a (non-Hero) Wested Last Crusade or Raiders in goatskin. The jacket pattern is really quite decent and goat will give you a level of ruggedness that the stock lamb does not. It’s essentially a no-knits G-1 with hand warmers and leather collar.

If you’re open to the secondary market, it would be hard to do better than the explicitly civilian flight jackets like Schott and others have made, many with a removable winter lining. They offer the flight jacket look with a lot more creature comforts including hand warmers and internal pockets. They haven’t gotten inflated in the secondary market like riding jackets have, so you can find some great deals even in like new condition.

 

[Aloysius]

I’ve just had a look. Tons of Schott 184SM jackets, including absolutely pristine ones, on eBay right now for Five Star prices, even at sizes like 40 and 42.

It’s arguably the best all-rounder travel jacket on the market. Take a look for yourself. I don’t know your size so I don’t know which to link.

 

[4444Design]

How is that hide aging? I am curious to see how water, interacts with it. Any staining, top coat coming off? Is it good leather? Please elaborate, I am very interested.

Not that much experience so far ...

The weather got ridiciously warm after i took the pics - now it dropped again so a chance for me to wear it more often - hopefully