Five Star Leather Jackets

[4444Design]

I where you i'd go with a ANJ3 - mainly a G1 without the mouton collar ...

In general i like the G1 over the A2 but in summer the mouton bothers me so i ordered a ANJ which totally does it for me.

As for dimensions in the beginning i customized almost every jacket. Nowadays i tend more to check for the sizecharts and try to order stock sizes the only customization is the color and material combo.

Less hassle for you ...

 

[mysternee]

I’ve just had a look. Tons of Schott 184SM jackets, including absolutely pristine ones, on eBay right now for Five Star prices, even at sizes like 40 and 42.

It’s arguably the best all-rounder travel jacket on the market. Take a look for yourself. I don’t know your size so I don’t know which to link.

Honestly, I'm open to it provided I can get a good example in brown, in my size. My chest is just under 38" relaxed, and I'm guessing I'd be a size 36. This guy is a smidge bigger than me (couple of cm, 6 pounds) and the 38 looks generous on him even wearing a fleece, so I think a 36 would be the best bet.

 

[mysternee]

The moment you introduce changes, the cat is out of the bag as far as visual proportions (if you’re very lucky) pattern (most likely), even if they seem like small changes to you.

Just my 2¢

At this price point (excluding the secondary market) you should consider a (non-Hero) Wested Last Crusade or Raiders in goatskin. The jacket pattern is really quite decent and goat will give you a level of ruggedness that the stock lamb does not. It’s essentially a no-knits G-1 with hand warmers and leather collar.

If you’re open to the secondary market, it would be hard to do better than the explicitly civilian flight jackets like Schott and others have made, many with a removable winter lining. They offer the flight jacket look with a lot more creature comforts including hand warmers and internal pockets. They haven’t gotten inflated in the secondary market like riding jackets have, so you can find some great deals even in like new condition.

I take your point; my biggest fear is that a jacket will arrive with some aggravating pocket positioning or similar, and I just don't have confidence in ordering something with enough specificity to avoid that. Getting a known quantity with the creature features built-in is a sound idea.

5* do have an indy/crusader type jacket though, and that and the Wested were something I was vaguely considering (although I think a ribbed & blousy affair is still my preference). Is the 5* version known to be a poor pattern?

 

[mysternee]

I where you i'd go with a ANJ3 - mainly a G1 without the mouton collar ...

In general i like the G1 over the A2 but in summer the mouton bothers me so i ordered a ANJ which totally does it for me.

As for dimensions in the beginning i customized almost every jacket. Nowadays i tend more to check for the sizecharts and try to order stock sizes the only customization is the color and material combo.

Less hassle for you ...

The added heat of the mouton is exactly the issue I have with a stock G1, although the Schott @Aloysius mentioned would solve this. I want something I can conceivably wear in any jacket-appropriate temperature, with the option to warm it up with layers or a scarf, so this is something I will consider! Is there a specific model you ordered @4444Design? Or does anyone know if any of the ANJ-3 models is based on an actual reproduction? I like the overall setup of this in terms of features (plus hand warmers), but no idea if it's a decent pattern/cut. Would prefer to get one based on a historical design if going down that route.

 

[Aloysius]

Honestly, I'm open to it provided I can get a good example in brown, in my size. My chest is just under 38" relaxed, and I'm guessing I'd be a size 36. This guy is a smidge bigger than me (couple of cm, 6 pounds) and the 38 looks generous on him even wearing a fleece, so I think a 36 would be the best bet.

Worth trying both for sure. Shame you didn’t post when I was at the factory sale. Hooked a friend up with a great civilian G-1 (looked identical to the issued model except for hidden handwarmers and a removable mouton collar).

Generally I’d say the Schotts that start with a 1 are true to size, but given your measurements I think 36 could be a safe bet. I wouldn’t rule out a 38 though.

I’ll keep an eye out as well. There are great jackets like this by many makers; the Schott just happens to be the one I know by model number.

 

[Aloysius]

The added heat of the mouton is exactly the issue I have with a stock G1, although the Schott @Aloysius mentioned would solve this. I want something I can conceivably wear in any jacket-appropriate temperature, with the option to warm it up with layers or a scarf, so this is something I will consider! Is there a specific model you ordered @4444Design? Or does anyone know if any of the ANJ-3 models is based on an actual reproduction? I like the overall setup of this in terms of features (plus hand warmers), but no idea if it's a decent pattern/cut. Would prefer to get one based on a historical design if going down that route.

I think the safest bet in this direction would be to get one of the original model-patterned G-1 types (like the one I mentioned, H&L Block) and ask for a removable collar. No other changes just because I think any additional variable increases the chance of something going wrong.

Could add side-entry handwarmers if you explicitly stipulate that you want the pocket shape/size to remain the same as the standard model. That way there’s no case where they’d have to guesstimate the size or placement of a new pocket or something.

I think there’s a chance of getting a good product there but you need to be very mindful about how you do it; providing measurements doesn’t do much to help because then you’re back to them developing a pattern.

 

[El Marro]

I expect Aero or Thurston would outright take the jacket back if they'd sold it with the wrong measurements confirmed to you.

I know Thurston will. My first Thedi was way off the chest, and shoulder measurements I requested and the took it back and got me a remake.

 

[mysternee]

I’ll keep an eye out as well. There are great jackets like this by many makers; the Schott just happens to be the one I know by model number.

Honestly you've convinced me on this route, and even this model, if I can get the size in decent condition. Will have to see what the seller I've contacted says. It's got all the features I want, and aside from sizing I know exactly what I'll be getting, whereas that's a worry with 5*.

 

[MrBlue44]

Do Simmons Bilt do custom jackets like FS does or just alterations to their existing patterns? Wondering if they are a good middle ground between FS and the more expensive jacket makers.

 

[Aloysius]

Do Simmons Bilt do custom jackets like FS does or just alterations to their existing patterns? Wondering if they are a good middle ground between FS and the more expensive jacket makers.

Very very weird choice for "middle ground". I wouldn't say they're on the affordable side of the spectrum at all; they're slightly cheaper than Aero, and even that is only because they know people aren't going to buy Aero knockoffs for Aero's price.

Anyway, SB will do the same level of modification that Aero does, but with poor quality control. This is the usual result, so I would not risk trying to get some special sizing.

If you want an actual middle ground in price, check out Vanson, whose range of sizes and patterns mean there is probably a stock model that fits you close to custom.

 

[TartuWolf]

I can second what @Aloysius said about QC, I had very bad experience with that. But in theory they are more flexible in terms of alterations and measurement specification. You're getting into 5* gambling territory there though. But in can be mitigated by demanding pre-shipping qc measurement pictures..

 

[PilotJens]

Five star Irvin vs Random Pakistani leather jacket company

 

[PilotJens]

Random Pakistani leather jacket company
Specs requested :
Lightweight everyday Irvin winter jacket.
Colour like aeros black sheep or darker like my old noble house/historical picture if you Google black sheep Irvin.
Maybe thin cowhide.
Artificial Fur
Copy pattern with my pictures and measurements.


In between:
"Here are pictures of the leather colour.
You wanted light and dark chocolate leather right "

Pictures received'
Chocolate brown and seal brown for the reinforcements.

After two weeks:
Your jacket is ready sir .

Me: Can I get a picture?

Them: don't worry about quality sir


Jackets received:
Cow hide strips.Sheep leather main .

Colour a bit like the aero black sheep however the sample pictures were the other colourway "seal and chocolate"
So they more or less lied to me .

Pattern .Pretty good except for the sleeve but that was probably done for cost saving or by a lack of machinery .
Even made/soldered the hooks for the elastic .
However the rivet hooks ripped out of the thin sheepskin rather soon .
Buckle was sourced relatively close to the original by them .
Zips were brass ykk like requested.

Cost 250$.

 

[PilotJens]

Overall a ok experience.I met them personally in Germany when they were here to meet existing customers while going to a trade show shortly after .


I wanted to order work shirts for the company I work for and made a special pattern with them with hidden side entry pockets and a single underarm gusset and embroidered company logo.
I invited them for steak lol.
They showed me my prototype and I immediately noticed that the fabric wasn't what I specified.
Not 250gsm and loose short fibre cotton .
They deviously smiled at me and said don't worry.High quality....

I specified the fabric multiple times.
Nothing was met ....
Just don't worry....

A few months later my shirt is now 3sizes smaller

 

[PilotJens]

Now off two try finding a another Pakistani company that can make my shirts.

Second try
New company.
More professional
Able to send samples .

Horrible pricing for prototypes ...

Gsm and fabric quality was met a bit better .
Pattern was better one way and worse in others .The gussets worked with company one .
Company two not so much .I really don't know why but even a simple gusset seems to be complicated in a way I don't know.

But know here is the interesting part .
I ordered them with screen printing.
I don't know what wall paint they used for the screen printing but it was so horrible cured that it dissolved while test washing....

Them :" You washed too hot."
Me:" Every European housewives washes with 30°C in a washing machine.If that is to much then I have the feeling that all of you wash by hand in the local river"
Them: " Then we do embroidery"
Me:" My boss doesn't want embroidery "

So at the end I didn't even wanna try the "different" printing compound because they were squeezing money out of me .

At the end they probably would have send me random fabric with wall paint in my big order .
I was done with those companies.


I talked to Shawn and he went so far and wanted to track them down because they are close to their area hahaha .
He was kind of shocked at the screen printing pictures after the wash .
Shawn will probably be making my big order.He has been professional and nice to work with .
He is able to meet quality and price and can give you honest information about the materials.


They are by no means perfect but I hope some of my experiences can help others to understand the difference between them and their local competitors.

 

[MrBlue44]

I can second what @Aloysius said about QC, I had very bad experience with that. But in theory they are more flexible in terms of alterations and measurement specification. You're getting into 5* gambling territory there though. But in can be mitigated by demanding pre-shipping qc measurement pictures..

Thanks! Maybe I'll introduce myself and share a bit more about what I'm after. Not sure whether this is the right thread for such - I posted in it because I'm considering having FS make me a custom jacket but was then wondering if I should just spend a bit more money and get something better quality.

What I've got right now is a Noble house Jagdflieger jacket in brown HH. I also have a custom FS jacket - it's mostly a G1 but with an asymmetrical front and mouton up the wind flap and collar. It turned out pretty good but I gave them waist measurements that were a little too small (my fault, I checked). It also has a wool layer in between the viscose and the leather for a little extra warmth.

Anyway, I'm turning 40 in a few months, and want a leather jacket to remember it by. I'm after two leather jackets - one custom made one in HH and a sheepskin jacket, like an Irvin or M445. I'd probably happily get a sheepskin jacket from FS but not for my 40th, later. I would probably sell the two jackets I have now, partially to free up funds but also because I would not really need them anymore.

This is where FS and the question of their quality is good enough. I want to keep the jacket for a long time and so I want horse hide that will age well and develop a beautiful patina. I'm worried that FS will let me down in this regard - maybe nobody has owned their horse hide jackets for long enough though? There is also the question of their workmanship, especially when making a custom design. It seems that they especially butcher sleeves.

So this is making me wonder if I should move to the next higher category, such as SB, Aero or someone else. I'm based in the UK so Vanson might not work. I'm also worried Aero is too expensive for me. Not sure my wife will love me spending that much on a jacket.

 

[Aloysius]

There isn’t a substantial difference between Aero and SB pricing. They try to undercut but the moment you introduce something like Aero equivalent letters, the SB is usually more expensive.

Have you looked at Aero’s stock collection, blue label, etc? About a full price level down (two in the case of blue label) but much better QC than SB or of course Five Star.

 

[MrBlue44]

There isn’t a substantial difference between Aero and SB pricing. They try to undercut but the moment you introduce something like Aero equivalent letters, the SB is usually more expensive.

Have you looked at Aero’s stock collection, blue label, etc? About a full price level down (two in the case of blue label) but much better QC than SB or of course Five Star.

Most SB jackets seem to start at 580. Plus 75 for better leather and you're at 655. Aero jackets start at 840.

 

[Aloysius]

Most SB jackets seem to start at 580. Plus 75 for better leather and you're at 655. Aero jackets start at 840.

The leather up charge to baseline Aero grade was already £250 three years ago.

 

[MrBlue44]

The leather up charge to baseline Aero grade was already £250 three years ago.

That's not what their website says. I'll email SB and ask. SB lists their most expensive leather, Japanese leather, as adding £200.