Engineer Boots, Harness Boots...

[OneEyeMan]

Jimmer,
You rock!
Thanks so much.
But, (isn't there always a but) what's a half sole and what does it do for the boot/your foot?
And the same question for Leather Half Slip (half a midsole). The Bakers site shows it as an option but it looks like a regular midsole.
Finally (for now) what is the standard leather.
The site lists dozens of different leathers, but there's no description of each one's benefits or drawback.
See what you've done Jimmer; you've created a boot monster.
Damn you!
Lenny

 

[jimmer_5]

In essence, a half sole is literally that - a rubber or leather outsole that only covers from the toe to the middle of the boot. The middle of the sole is generally exposed leather. A full sole would be a rubber or leather outsole that covers from the toe to the heel of the boot, although it is technically underneath the heel stack and rubber heel cap. Make sense?

The half sole was conceived because it makes that cobblers' job faster and easier - you don't have to remove the heel to replace the sole. It also lends a more "vintage" look to a pair of boots or shoes. I like the look of the exposed leather midsole. I generally will add a second leather midsole to make it look even beefier, but this is really not necessary for the kind of walking I do. Linemen will sometimes do this to stiffen the boot to help them when climbing telephone poles, but for me it just makes the boot look and feel more rugged and well built.

Sometimes a thin half sole (called a "sole saver") will be added to a pair of leather soled shoes or boots to keep the user from wearing away the expensive leather. It is cheaper to occasionally replace the thin rubber part than to have a leather soled shoe re-soled. This rubber part also adds grip in wintery conditions.

For me, that half sole is really just a fashion choice - I think it looks cool and vintage, and it has become my preferred sole.

Here are some examples of a half sole:

And here are some images of a full sole:

 

[OneEyeMan]

Thanks again Jimmer.
Now, all I need to do is save my pennies.
Lenny

 

[jimmer_5]

No problem Lenny - good luck with the saving! By the way, I just got a shipping notice from Bakers just now!

My new boots should be here in a day or two.....

 

[OneEyeMan]

Awesome.
Pix ASAP please?
Lenny

 

[OneEyeMan]

I just saw a pic of the "Open Road" boot on the Bakers and Whites Boots sites.
They look identical to the Nomads but cost half as much.
Does anybody know anything about these?
I'm sure they aren't built as well as the Nomads, but I'd like to know where they fall short.
And...does anybody know the difference between the 3 styles of heels: Standard, 90 Degree Blocked Off (Traveler) and Ranch Packer.
I assume yours are the Standard Jimmer, right?
And...are the Nomads the kind of boots I can wear all day to the office, go for a walk at lunch time, and drive home (car) after work and still be comfy?
Thanks all,
Lenny

 

[jimmer_5]

I got my second pair of Nomads last night, and they look great. UPS came by at 7pm - I guess the holiday season is here! I will do a detailed review tonight or tomorrow - I took some indoor pictures last night, but they turned out poorly. I'll try again this evening.

The color of the distressed brown leather is much lighter than the standard brown, which is what I was hoping for. As others have pointed out, the distressed leather is very dry. I am going to get some pictures of them as they came, and then I will go and ruin that nice color by coating them in boot oil. The leather will dry back out and lighten again, and the oil will soften the leather and make them break in easier. I have also found that it tends to help avoid weird looking creases if the leather is well oiled during break in.

There were a few interesting details that I noticed. One is that the fit seems to have changed. These are the same size as my first pair, but they fit larger. These boots come with a foam insole, and with my original pair, I had to remove it for them to fit comfortably. No big deal because other White's styles don't even come with an insole, and they are plenty comfortable. With the new pair, I tried them on with my thicker socks, and they still fit best with the insole in place.

Second is that the half sole appears to be a full length composition sole that has been cut down and thinned at the back edge. I will take a comparison picture to show what I mean here. It's cleanly done, but I thought it was odd.

Anyhow, I'll post more when I have some good pictures.

 

[jimmer_5]

I just saw a pic of the "Open Road" boot on the Bakers and Whites Boots sites.
They look identical to the Nomads but cost half as much.
Does anybody know anything about these?
I'm sure they aren't built as well as the Nomads, but I'd like to know where they fall short.
And...does anybody know the difference between the 3 styles of heels: Standard, 90 Degree Blocked Off (Traveler) and Ranch Packer.
I assume yours are the Standard Jimmer, right?
And...are the Nomads the kind of boots I can wear all day to the office, go for a walk at lunch time, and drive home (car) after work and still be comfy?
Thanks all,
Lenny

Lenny - I would encourage you to save up for the real thing. The Open road boots fit poorly in my experience. I tried them on when I visited White's headquarters in Spokane a year or so ago, and the fit was not good. Even the guy working there who helped me steered me away from them. He actually mentioned that they had a new engineer boot coming soon that would be far better. Now, a year or so later, I have two pairs of Nomads (the new Engineer Boot) and I am very happy with them both. In fact, I am thinking a black pair may be in my future. I have been meaning to make another Wesco Boss order, but it keeps getting pushed back because the White's Nomads are so good.

As heels go, standard heels are what mine have - also referred to as a cuban heel, they have a concave back shape that tapers down to the heel. The 90 degree block heel is a straight backed heel that is 90 degrees from the floor. The packer heel is more like a cowboy boot heel - it tapers toward the bottom, but it goes in a straight angled line. Make sense?

 

[OneEyeMan]

Awesome, can't wait to see pix of the new boots.
I agree on the real thing, I want the Nomads.
From the descriptions, it also seems that they use a lighter weight leather for the Open Roads.
And yes, your heel description makes sense.
Are there any differences in feel when walking between the 3?
Or is it just personal preference on the look?
Seems like you recommend oiling new boots to speed up break in, right.
As for saving my pennies, I just sold a few knives so I'm more than half way there.
Lenny

 

[kyboots]

Jim looking forward to the review. I have not purchased any White's yet but looking. I really like the look. We are the same size ? 13D, so let me know when you order the black ones, we can work out a deal on brown ones. I have to sell some size 12D Frye's and Lucchese cowboy boots that I cannot not wear.John

 

[jimmer_5]

Ok, here are some pics of the new Nomads. I'll add a better review sometime tomorrow - right now, I need some sleep!

The boots are brand new, fresh out of the box in these pictures - no wear, no oiling, no polish. I oiled them up after I took the pictures, and they are now a dark chocolate brown. I have done this enough that I know they will lighten back up in a few weeks. The oil will help them break in nicely, and by the time they have creased up, they should be somewhat lighter again.

 

[jimmer_5]

Here is one of the interesting things I noted - the Nomads use a Vibram 700 full length composition sole that has been cut down and thinned at the end. THe Wesco's in this picture use a true Vibram 705 half sole. I'm not sure why White's chooses to do this - it seems like more work. I also miss the "figure 8" stitching, but it's not a dealbreaker.

One of my initial concerns was that the distressed brown would be too close in color to the standard brown oil tanned leather. As you can see, they look quite different.

Finally, here are some pics of my original pair of Brown Nomads. They are breaking in quite gracefully. I have been pretty nice to these boots, and they don't show as much patina as my Wesco's. However, I have also had them less time. The uppers were somewhat stiff when I first received them, but they are softening nicely with wear. I am very pleased with how they look and feel thus far:

 

[Ishmael]

Jimmer, awesome pics and boots!

Do you think they might use the trimmed down 700 because the 705 isn't large enough?

 

[OneEyeMan]

Killer boots Jimmer!
I originally wanted brown, then changed my mind to black for use on the motocycle and because I don't really have any
black boots that I can wear every day.
But these pix might sway me back to brown, or distressed brown.
Could you take some "post oiling" pix if you get a chance please?
What oil do you use anyway.
Lenny

 

[OneEyeMan]

sorry, double post.

 

[oldcrow82]

As a policy I'm opposed to pre distressed anything, but I must say jimmer, these are fantastic. They look a bit like horween's natural chromexcel. Can anybody confirm this?

 

[pjstrass]

yes, what kind of oil on the new boots...nice thread...!

 

[jimmer_5]

Jimmer, awesome pics and boots!

Do you think they might use the trimmed down 700 because the 705 isn't large enough?

Ishmael, the Wesco's next to them in the picture above are a size 13 - the sole on the Wesco (on the right) is a true Vibram 705. I am assuming that they do it because I don't think many people ask for the half sole - it's kind of an old-fashioned option. I would bet they just don't stock the less popular #705 half soles, and just cut down a #700 sole when they need one.

As a policy I'm opposed to pre distressed anything, but I must say jimmer, these are fantastic. They look a bit like horween's natural chromexcel. Can anybody confirm this?

I have never liked "distressed" finish leather myself, but I really wanted a rugged leather in a lighter color. I will eventually try "Red Dog", but I ahve seen some examples where this leather looks kind like vinyl/plasticky. It's funny you mention the natural Chromexcel - that's what started this whole mess. I was just starting an order with Bakers for a black pair of Wesco Boss boots when I saw a picture of a pair of White's Nomad boots in Natural Chromexcel. I actually got to handle that pair of boots in person - the leather is beautiful, but I personally think Chromexcel is a little too soft and thin (5.5-6 oz) for boots. I wanted to achieve that same look in a more rugged 7-8 oz leather, so I gave the "distressed" leather a try. I still think the Natural Chromexcel is a little nicer looking, but this leather is thicker and stiffer. It should hold up better in the long run.

yes, what kind of oil on the new boots...nice thread...!

I am using Wesco Bee Oil. Wesco, White's, and Nick's will all sell you pretty much the same thing - the White's, Nick's, and Wesco boot "paste" are virtually indistinguishable. Use the oil to keep the boots supple and use the thicker waxier "Bee Seal" to make them repel water. The bee seal also darkens the leather and seems to moisturize it, but the Bee Oil really soaks in. I will post a picture, but the oil really ruins the charm of the distressed leather. Thankfully, they will lighten back up with a little time and wear.

 

[jimmer_5]

So I called White's today to ask about the variance in fit between my new Nomad's and my original pair. They said that there have been no changes to the last used to to make the boots, so theoretically, both pairs should fit the same. They explained that sometimes the person making the boots doesn't pull the leather quite as tight over the last, and that can result in a looser fit. To their credit, they immediately offered to ship the boots back so they could take a look. They said they would either "adjust the fit" (it sounds like they remove the sole and fit them to the last again). They said they can also add a thin layer of leather to the insole to make them fit tighter - essentially the same ideda as adding a foam insole, but they can use a thinner piece of leather - the foam is about 0.150" thick. For now, I will just wear them and see how it goes. I don't particularly like using a foam insole or adding a layer of leather to the insole of the boot - it moves the foot upward, and I don't feel like the heel counter cups my heel as well. Smoke Jumpers don't use this kind of insole - I think they just throw it in because Wesco does the same thing. It does add some cushion, but I have always found my White's boots to be plenty comfortable without it.

In any case, I just wanted to explain that the sizing difference I noticed seems to be an anomaly. It's not a dealbreaker, just something I did not expect.

 

[jimmer_5]

Perhaps this is unnecessary, but I thought I would drop a link into this thread - I received my second pair of White's Nomad Engineer boots the other day, and they look great. The distressed uppers, double midsoles, and Vibram half soles are a great combination. Here is the link:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?64952-White-s-quot-Nomad-quot-Engineer-Boots!-New-pics-and-review/page5