Do any of you guys follow any type of hat etiquette?

[Denton]

Misha Glouberman used to write a column about manners for a Toronto newspaper. Here is how he summarizes his philosophy in a recent book, co-written with Sheila Heti, The Chairs Are Where the People Go:

"When I wrote my manners column, a lot of the time the question posed would be, I think this, my friend thinks that, who's right? And it's funny because often no one's right. If my friend thinks she should drive on the right-hand side of the road and I think I should drive on the left and there's no existing rule, no side is right. What matters is that there's agreement."

I think Jared is making a similar point. Rules of polite behavior do their most valuable work almost below the level of awareness. They communicate things like respect, but almost unconsciously. They make social interaction smooth, comfortable, and invisible. When people treat me as I expect to be treated, then everything feels easy and natural. When my expectations aren't met, then there can be conflict.

In a society where everyone observes the same rules of hat etiquette, hats can have this function. In a society such as ours, where most people don't observe these rules, the meaning of the rules is quite different. They no longer communicate respect, trust, fidelity, and sincerity. They communicate something more like nostalgia. In this sense, as Jared puts it, the rule is no longer a rule.

I would add that, in the past, there was at least as much disagreement on the subject of polite behavior as there is today. The conflicts between 17th-century Quakers and non-Quakers over hat protocols is one example. HamilcarBarca's suggestion that there may be special military protocols for hats is another. At no time in history, in no society, was there ever just one set of rules that everyone agreed on.

 

[DJH]

Comment on table manners in US deleted so's not to annoy innocent bystanders.

I'm outta here - I'd wear my hat indoors but the A/C is fighting a losing battle at the moment Bollocks to Al Gore and his stupid global warming!

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Church is different because there are rules in a church, which are more traditional than those followed by secular society. Frankly, I don't like that people don't wear suits to church anymore. I can't speak for anywhere but my hometown and you'd get a stern talking to for coming into church with a hat on, unless you're a lady.

Why is church any different? If all the hipsters started wearing hats and flip flops and propping their feet on the pew in front of them, isn't that just the "new etiquette"?

I always do that, too, not that they play the anthem very often. Last time I heard it was at the demolition derby last year.

Agree 100% on the church thing, Tom. I always remove my hat for the anthem, too. Some traditions are not dead!

 

[suitedcboy]

I love this thread!
Wearing a hat indoors was rude because to keep one's hat and coat on in a host's home meant you were not staying. Not staying was rejecting the hospitality of the host. I'll come to your house hat on head and stay all day and you can be as gracious as you want. I'm not going anywhere just because my hat is on my head.

Rude to me is taking your hat off and distracting me from conversation because while I should be formulating great conversation I'm instead thinking, "put your damn hat back on, your pale as death head with a red ring from sweatband is most unattractive!"
I will also be thinking that wherever your hat is placed or hung is such a poor substitute for just keeping it on your head where it made to be.

The persons who think it is rude to keep a hat on are offended because someone told them you were supposed to take hats off inside. Maybe they also don't like hats. If they don't like hats then why am I even bothering to waste my time with them. I could be home reading this forum wearing my hat inside my house where my family thinks it is not rude.

When much of this etiquette was conceived there was no TV, no internet, no air conditioning or well functioning heat, and a king or queen could have you done away with at a whim.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

It is very rude on that fact, right there. My Grandfather once came to visit and never took off his coat and hat. That was 15 years ago and my parents are still upset about it.

I would have to disagree on the assumption that if someone wants you to take your hat off in their home means they don't like hats. I LOVE hats and typically take mine off inside. I have a coat tree and people are free to use it to hang up their hats.

Wearing a hat indoors was rude because to keep one's hat and coat on in a host's home meant you were not staying. Not staying was rejecting the hospitality of the host. I'll come to your house hat on head and stay all day and you can be as gracious as you want. I'm not going anywhere just because my hat is on my head.

The persons who think it is rude to keep a hat on are offended because someone told them you were supposed to take hats off inside. Maybe they also don't like hats. If they don't like hats then why am I even bothering to waste my time with them. I could be home reading this forum wearing my hat inside my house where my family thinks it is not rude.

 

[jlee562]

If I ever am around you I would fart, spit, and chew my food loudly. I wont offend you because I wouldn't have followed unwritten arbitrary rules.

And you will see that people will treat you differently if you do follow etiquette. They will see the respect you give them and they will respect you further.

It's apparent to me, based on this reply, that something isn't translating to you. Your reply here is a straw man fallacy.

What can I do to help you better understand my argument?

 

[DamianM]

It's apparent to me, based on this reply, that something isn't translating to you. Your reply here is a straw man fallacy.

What can I do to help you better understand my argument?

The problem isn't me understanding you. It you understanding me.

I understand that society has lost the knowledge of etiquette but I don't believe the rules don't apply because of this.
As for the "Straw man fallacy" (<< Your in college we get it, I am too) It is another set of "rules" no one wrote but are still applied, (well I hope so)

Because the hat lost popularity the manners in which we used them got lost and or ignore by the newer generations, this DOES NOT change the fact that there is a proper etiquette for wearing a hat.

We live in an age that every time I go do a small wedding job (I'm a photographer, as well), I have to teach most of the men on how to tie a bow tie or even worse a simple necktie, to make matters worse they end up wearing the necktie outside of the vest because they don't know any better.

 

[g.durand]

Wow, a lot has happened here since last night.

HamilcarBarca3, did your question get answered?

I think I'm just gonna wear my hat.

 

[HudsonHawk]

This is like discussing beans in chili.

 

[PastimeSteve]

this is like discussing beans in chili.

lol! :d

 

[Matt Crunk]

This is like discussing beans in chili.

Or ketchup on hot dogs.

 

[jlee562]

The problem isn't me understanding you. It you understanding me.

I understand that society has lost the knowledge of etiquette but I don't believe the rules don't apply because of this.
As for the "Straw man fallacy" (<< Your in college we get it, I am too) It is another set of "rules" no one wrote but are still applied, (well I hope so)

Because the hat lost popularity the manners in which we used them got lost and or ignore by the newer generations, this DOES NOT change the fact that there is a proper etiquette for wearing a hat.

We live in an age that every time I go do a small wedding job (I'm a photographer, as well), I have to teach most of the men on how to tie a bow tie or even worse a simple necktie, to make matters worse they end up wearing the necktie outside of the vest because they don't know any better.

Oh, so you do understand my argument, but you chose to deliberately distort that argument in your above reply? How gentlemanly and respectful of you. "Golden Era" rules of propriety get curiouser and curiouser.

No, I understand your position. However, your argument is predicated on the idea that actions have inherent meaning. Not only do I not think this is true, I think it's pretty clear that this is not true (i.e., my earlier examples on the "okay!" hand sign and table manners on noodles).

You're arguing that not following hat etiquette is inherently rude, even if the intended target of such etiquette does not regard it as so.

Why do you believe this? I do not know. I have asked now at least twice but you are unwilling or unable to give a cogent answer.

So, fine. If you say it is I who does not understand you, help me out. What is this universal and objective sense of propriety? Where did it come from? And how do you reconcile your belief(s) with the observations I've already noted which indicate that meanings are socially constructed?

It's the new norm due to selfishiness and apathy, not because society had a sudden change of of collective thinking about how it interacts. People are still offended, they just accept it.

I would love to see you attempt to provide any sort of empirical evidence for this statement. It seems to me that you are projecting your own dislike of the current mores.

 

[suitedcboy]

This is like discussing beans in chili.

I think that is a great analogy. With an exception: it seems that some of us think that those who like beans are completely wrong and it is rude for those to even like beans.

What I may have written might not bear this out but I wear my hat indoors in some places where others take their hats off. The removal of their hat is fine with me. I hope that me keeping my hat on my head is OK with them.


I do think it is rude to come in with a soaking wet hat and not take it off. I guess there is a reason.

 

[jlee562]

I think that is a great analogy. With an exception: it seems that some of us think that those who like beans are completely wrong and it is rude for those to even like beans.

What I may have written might not bear this out but I wear my hat indoors in some places where others take their hats off. The removal of their hat is fine with me. I hope that me keeping my hat on my head is OK with them.

Well, we have at least two folks who think you're rude and selfish for doing so. I will remove my hat in an upscale restaurant, or one where an appropriate place exists for me to keep it (one of my favorite coffee shop does indeed have hat hooks, I remove my hat every time I go in and sit down at a booth). Though I do not regularly attend church, should I ever be in one, I will remove my hat. Though I am not often around in events where the National Anthem is recited, I remove my hat. I'm not generally compelled to remove my hat otherwise.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I think that is a great analogy. With an exception: it seems that some of us think that those who like beans are completely wrong and it is rude for those to even like beans.

I assumed that was a given.

 

[DamianM]

Oh, so you do understand my argument, but you chose to deliberately distort that argument in your above reply? How gentlemanly and respectful of you. "Golden Era" rules of propriety get curiouser and curiouser.

No, I understand your position. However, your argument is predicated on the idea that actions have inherent meaning. Not only do I not think this is true, I think it's pretty clear that this is not true (i.e., my earlier examples on the "okay!" hand sign and table manners on noodles).

You're arguing that not following hat etiquette is inherently rude, even if the intended target of such etiquette does not regard it as so.

Why do you believe this? I do not know. I have asked now at least twice but you are unwilling or unable to give a cogent answer.

So, fine. If you say it is I who does not understand you, help me out. What is this universal and objective sense of propriety? Where did it come from? And how do you reconcile your belief(s) with the observations I've already noted which indicate that meanings are socially constructed?



I would love to see you attempt to provide any sort of empirical evidence for this statement. It seems to me that you are projecting your own dislike of the current mores.

I already explained myself but here we go again.
If you where to present proper hat etiquette, the on lookers will notice it, even though they didn't find it rude to begin with due to the lack of knowledge ( like I explain before, some grown men don't even know how to tie a necktie). They will sense of respect from you for taking the hat off indoors, dining, etc.

But if you want to follow with the examples of our current society with its great track record, keep following.

 

[suitedcboy]

I thought of some hat removal etiquette that has a valid argument: movie theaters and aircraft seating when there is shared video viewers.

(If no one is behind me I keep my hat on in theaters)

 

[-30-]

"it seems that some of us think that those who like beans are completely wrong and it is rude for those to even like beans."
QUOTE: suitedcboy.

This may be a more suitable historic answer:

Beans, beans, the musical fruit.
The more you eat, the more you . . .


Regards,
-30-

 

[1961MJS]

Or ketchup on hot dogs.

No, it's not. Harry Callahan said so. There is SOME leeway on where hats can and cannot be worn, but Ketchup on a hot dog is ALWAYS wrong!!!!! The Inspector has spoken.



I was at Mike Moore's Buckaroo Hatters on Saturday the 13th of July, and being inside I kept taking my hat off. Silly in a way because Mike and Rocky wore there's all day because they're trying to SELL HATS IN A HAT STORE. I bet I took mine on and off 20x.

Later

 

[HudsonHawk]

I thought of some hat removal etiquette that has a valid argument: movie theaters and aircraft seating when there is shared video viewers.

(If no one is behind me I keep my hat on in theaters)

To hell with other people around you. Wear your hat whenever you like. Or so I've heard.