Dita Von Teese "for Men"

[Marc Chevalier]

Frankly, in this world there's room for every type of clothing, including the one above. I'm not going to tell an Afghani woman not to wear it if she wishes to.

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[Tomasso]

if she wishes to.

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Exactly.

 

[Wild Root]

Wild Root... Yeah, I am the prude stripper! LOL Don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs (Never tried anything not even pot), no tattoos, only my ears are peirced. I suppose my only vices are being nekked in public and married men!! Hahahaha... Now, just how much of that is me joking. I always enjoy meeting people who don't drink... it makes the night more enjoyable in my opinion. That way there is no "babysitting". You are too sweet! Thank you for your words... hehehe but now that you know my vices... do you still feel the same?! LOL

Do I feel the same?... Yes, I do. You're a burlesque dancer, that's your thing and well, as for me, I don't judge others, that's not my job to do as a person, but, I am some what unsure as to the reason why a lovely woman would choose to participate in that sort of industry but, I tend to over look things like that and look at what type of person they are rather then the person's "Vices".

=WR=

 

[Marc Chevalier]

if she wishes to.

----Exactly.
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And if she didn't, you and I both would defend her right not to. :cheers1:

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[Caledonia]

I would consider words that denounce women as worn and substandard the foulest, lowest kind of profanity a person could use. But this is the very sort of attitude the sex industry promotes. A message board that claims to celebrate “gentlemen” would protest this kind of attitude, and any woman with an ounce of dignity and sense of sisterhood would do the same. It’s a shame it didn’t happen here.

A person can call it burlesque or any other word to sugarcoat the fact that they’re objectifying women, but the fact of the matter is that your trendy “burlesque” shows reduce women to 2nd class status. You can argue my point until your face turns blue, but this thread is proof enough.

Thank goodness Dita at least has a small waist and tiny ankles; that should help her out now that her age has left her substandard and worn.

Can I respect your viewpoint but say that I didn't think that's what mikepara was getting at. I took it that mike was saying she wasn't as good now in Burlesque as others who have now come into the business. It happens in every walk of life. People get tired, fed up, uninspired. Maybe it could have been phrased better. Personally I have no objection to Burlesque, and if I can refer to Lolitahaze's great description of the history and how its changed, Burlesque is as relevant a performance art as anything else. It can also be cheapened like anything else. I am adamant about fair an equal treatment for everybody, with respect for everybody's rights to live the life they want as long as it doesn't have direct hurtful impact. I am not into any kind of sisterhood, brotherhood, or any other kind of hood. All persons have the right to decide on their own lifestyle, and in terms of livelihood the only kind of denegration is when a person is forced by others or by circumstance to pursue a livelihood they would wish not to. True Burlesque is as relevant as Oxford educated, RADA trained acting.

 

[LolitaHaze]

It is my opinion that the only time something, what ever it may be at whatever degree, becomes degrating is when that person does something they wouldn't normally do or compromises their own beliefs to do it. This could go for a woman in the sex industry or a regular farmer. For example. I don't like porn. Does that mean it is wrong or degrading? No. But I would be degrading myself, not by continuing to perform Burlesque, but by getting into porn because that would make me a "star". I compromised myself to get ahead. Take the farmer. His beliefs are you should always charge fair prices and do business by quality not quanity. He would be degrading himself if in order to make more money he started charging more and push out quanity versus quality. He compromised his own beliefs.

I really hope that all makes sense.

 

[Caledonia]

It did LH.

 

[herringbonekid]

at 'trendy' burlesque clubs in London the audience is 60-70% female. it is about the atmosphere and vintage style, not oggling girls. the acts have a silly, camp theatrical tone, not a sleazy strip-club feel.

 

[LolitaHaze]

Good. I am just very passionate when it comes to Burlesque so sometimes I get a bit fired up when people look down on it. Especially if they have never seen a (good) Burlesque show. Now I am not sure if Rebecca has seen one or not, but I just mean that in general. When I get excited, I type faster than my brain can think so I always wonder if I word things nicely. LOL

 

[LolitaHaze]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Have you seen Modesty Blaize perform? I saw her for the first time at Exotic World and she was AMAZING! What a strong presence!

at 'trendy' burlesque clubs in London the audience is 60-70% female. it is about the atmosphere and vintage style, not oggling girls. the acts have a silly, camp theatrical tone, not a sleazy strip-club feel.

 

[herringbonekid]

you mean IMmodesty Blaize !

yes, i have and she's a wild cat !

 

[jake_fink]

For what it's worth, I think choice is a difficult term in some situations. A homeless man, for example, may choose to sleep outside in February because the hostels are dangerous. That is his choice, but what kind of choice is it?

A young woman may wear a burka because she does not want to be ostracized, or swim against the tide. What kind of choice is that? The burka, like any item of clothing, is a powerful signifier, and this particular item signifies the status of women in that culture, their status not as autonomous, individuals but as inferiors to the men in their families, as chattel. To my very western, very liberal eyes this apparel speaks directly to the oppression and objectification of women.

Burlseque is another thing entirely. It is such a marginal, tiny part of the sex industry that it may even be outside of it enrtirely, and any young woman who chooses to perform in a burlesque show at this point in human and entertainment history is absolutely exercising her free will. It is a long, long way, in other words, from choosing to perform in variety acts in elaborate (and often hand made) costumes and "choosing" to join men in cars on a darkened strip of road.

Burlesque, I think, is a celebration of a woman's control over her own body, her own material and her own image, not in the least degrading or objectifying. In fact the women most burlesque performers and afficonadas look back to are remarkable for their strength and their individuality.

Finally, to get back to topic, I have never seen Dita von Teese perform, but I have seen the photos, and she seems a little pop-star slick to me, more Gwen Stefani than Lili St Cyr.




Edited to say, yeah, well, while I was typing the world kept on turning and things are now nice again. So, a day late and a dollar short once more.

 

[LolitaHaze]

Whoops! Yes, that is what I meant... I misspelled it. :-/

She was a darling! I wish I could see more of her. She wore this delightful hat as part of her costume. I wanted to steal it! LOL

you mean IMmodesty Blaize !

yes, i have and she's a wild cat !

 

[Marc Chevalier]

A young woman may wear a burka because she does not want to be ostracized, or swim against the tide. What kind of choice is that?

Welcome to the known universe, my friend. That's a kind of choice each of us makes every day.

Want to wear a toga in public, because it's pretty comfortable and suited men just fine for eons? Go ahead: see what happens. Enjoying the ostracism? Didn't think so. Now, put on a shirt and pants instead. Doesn't it feel nice, now that no one is ostracizing you?

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[Caledonia]

I just saw the Quentin Tarantino DVD, Modesty Blaize. It was ok but not great. If I'm going to make a fool of myself here, please feel free to fall about laughing , but, does the Modesty Blaize you guys are talking about bear any resemblance?
EDIT SELF: Giving it a bit of thought, probably not. Resume conversation as normal.

 

[Caledonia]

My mouse isn't working properly. I may have to leave soon. Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I just want to thank Miss Queenie for suggesting that we open this thread and open it here.


It's been widely-viewed, illuminating, and fun to boot. A great window into burlesque, both past and present.


Once again, please join me in thanking Miss Queenie . And for those who have participated, thank yourselves! :eusa_clap

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[Rebecca D]

It’s very telling that in response to my protest on women being objectified the reaction would be to post a woman in a burqa, as if to show me my other option. This only proves my point that this mentality forces women into particular molds to suit the needs of chauvinist society. A woman that is denied the “right” to take off her clothes to gain the approval and respect of men would be equivalent to a woman living under the rule of the Taliban. In the minds of many people there is no room for a middle ground where women are free to create new, natural images for ourselves without the interference of sexist stereotypes.

I don’t hate Dita, nor do I hate any woman for being a stripper. As a matter of fact, my best girlfriend is a burlesque dancer, and another one of my girlfriends produces so-called feminist porn. I do, however, hate the sex industry, which includes burlesque. It objectifies women, and creates ideas that respect for women should be based on body type and skin color.

There’s a very popular misconception out there that stripping has somehow become progressive for women, and a lot of men are running with it only to attack the “backward” women who dare be so rude to disagree. So much for the right to self-determination, huh?

Some folks claim that stripping helps women advance in society; however, I fail to see how a woman in a fishbowl or champagne glass is helping us gain equality in the world. It may be a good performance and it may be attended by women, but that doesn’t make it progressive or innocent good fun.

As for the thread on the fellas in the PR, I'm not sure if that was pointed in my direction or in the general direction of the membership?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

As for the thread on the fellas in the PR, I'm not sure if that was pointed in my direction or in the general direction of the membership?

It was pointed in both directions. I was intrigued by your point of view, and wanted to see if it extended to the link's content.


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[Quigley Brown]

Geesh...I must be living in a cave. I've never heard of this woman. It took me over an hour to get through all this and I still haven't even attempted to see what she looks like. Bye......