Dating borsalino liner logos

[jpdesign]

from my experiance and what I have been told

1 - ?
2 - 30's
3 - 50's
4 - 50's
5 - ?
6 - 40's
7 - 50's

If I had to guess I would put number 1 earlier than the rest, and number 5 later than the rest.

Jimmy

 

[jamespowers]

from my experiance and what I have been told

1 - ?
2 - 30's
3 - 50's
4 - 50's
5 - ?
6 - 40's
7 - 50's

If I had to guess I would put number 1 earlier than the rest, and number 5 later than the rest.

Jimmy

Number one might be earlier than the rest. You could be right but number 2 is a 1970s Borsalino San Remo at the earliest as far as I can see. Number 3 and 4 I can agree with. I would guess that number 5 and number one come from the same era because of the same materials used. The log is different but the materials are the same. I would think that number 6 and number 7 are also from the same era. The only difference is the color logo. I have one of number 6 and the date on the box it was shipped in is 1957 so we can be sure of that one within that range.
Further research that I have been doing might reveal more but I will let you know if my opinion changes with new information. This is a great thread. I forgot about it. If my responses are different than previously then refer to what I said above.

Regards to all,

J

 

[gcollins]

Hey old friends (and new ones!), great to see this thread resurrected. I don't think we yet have the definitive logo-numbering knwledge down yet, but I am encouraged that we keep digging away on this. There is probably no hat brand for which this is more relevant. If I wasn't travelling so much (with a killer brim in place, of course), I'd try to start documenting what we have so far. Keep digging away!

From Brazil,
G

 

[besdor]

Dating Hats

Borsalino hats are not that difficult to date . All hats made after 1975 will have the date printed on the white sticker under the leather . It is the number on the upper right hand side .
This practice continues today .
Most Borsalnio hats made for the USA market will have the imprint "Original House" on the leather . This will be in english until the factory moved in 1985 . Afterwards , it will say " Antica Casa" .
Hats made from the late 1950's to the mid 1970's wil have the size marker made of fabric that will say "Bulen Beyer" Older tags will be made of paper .
.After the late 1970's , the company used a small brown paper size tag and then to a gold sticker . :cool2:

 

[feltfan]

Borsalino hats are not that difficult to date . All hats made after 1975 will have the date printed on the white sticker under the leather . It is the number on the upper right hand side .
This practice continues today .
Most Borsalnio hats made for the USA market will have the imprint "Original House" on the leather . This will be in english until the factory moved in 1985 . Afterwards , it will say " Antica Casa" .
Hats made from the late 1950's to the mid 1970's wil have the size marker made of fabric that will say "Bulen Beyer" Older tags will be made of paper .
.After the late 1970's , the company used a small brown paper size tag and then to a gold sticker . :cool2:

On what evidence do you base this? I ask because some of it
does not agree with my hats... and because we've been around
this subject before. Is there a verifiable source of historical
information on vintage Borsalinos or did you do some research?
Any idea what "Bulen Beyer" means?

Thanks.

 

[besdor]

My family has been in the hat business since 1948 . I have dozens of old Borsalinos from the 1950's and up . Most have never been worn at all . I have the original lining die used for all of the Borsalino hats sold in the USA in my collection .
:cool2:

 

[gcollins]

Good idea, Besdor. Can you show photos of the logos and the time periods in which they were manufactured? That would help with the later-dated hats.

Can you also dig up the logos from the 30s, 40s and early 50s? Those would be of high interest.

Thanks!
G

 

[besdor]

I will go through my collection and post the pictures . :cool2:

 

[feltfan]

So what does "Bulen Beyer" mean?

 

[PutALidOnIt]

Hmmm...
The Borsalino in my avatar has a serial prefix of 43 and the sweatband is labeled Marks' Men's Wear, Montreal. It has the red-white-blue circular (not elliptical) reticle-style logo with the Borsalino in an untarnished gold-leaf looking diagonal bar. Well enough, but weren't we (and Canada) at war with Italy in 1943??? It doesn't seem likely that hats would have been imported from an enemy at the time...

I would post a pic, but am somewhat embarrassed that the lining is much less than pristine, and actually frayed through in the center of the bash since this is my favorite for daily wear...oh well, the price of comfort...

 

[BellyTank]

PutALidOnIt-
-sounds to me like a '60s Borsalino, from the logo description...
...but I could be wrong...

B
T

 

[PutALidOnIt]

Thanks, BT!

It's still the softest of all my lids, and has a nice classic look...plus it was a thrift shop special, not a primo purchase, so I don't feel too bad about a bit of abuse in the name of comfort!

 

[couch]

Eulan Bayer

Gents,

My first post here. Thanks to all for your knowledge and generosity.

I recently won this Borsalino

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8273704223

which appears, from besdor's mention of the Eulan Bayer size tag, to be late 50s to mid-70s. I too was curious about the tag--turns out Eulan is the name of a proprietary mothproofing treatment made by the German chemical house Bayer, used in felt production and in treating wool carpeting and rugs, among other things. (Thus the little hand in a "halt" gesture). There were several variants (Eulan Wa Neue, etc.) most based on plant-derived permethrins and at least one apparently including some DDT. I think most were not longer used after the '80s due to environmental toxicity concerns in water discharged from mills using the treatment in finishing. I'm also interested in learning more about the finish of this hat, which is very much like velvet--rather than hijack this thread, I'll post the link again in visigoth's thread on the definition of "velour."

 

[RedPop4]

Checked my San Remo, see photo 2. The serial number begins 78-
This is consistent with what someone else mentioned above about this model. So my lovely is "only" 28 years old.

 

[besdor]

Even from the 1970's , Borsalino hats are gems . Once the factory was moved to it's present location in 1986, it all went downhill from there .
The easiest way to tell the difference between pre 1986 and post for hats made for the US market is to look at the leather . If it says "Original House " then its an older hat . Once it says "Antica Casa " then we are talking modern Borsy.

Steven
www.bencrafthats.com
lol

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I will go through my collection and post the pictures . :cool2:

Have you had a chance to do so?

 

[thefedorastore]

Then I am confused again!

Even from the 1970's , Borsalino hats are gems . Once the factory was moved to it's present location in 1986, it all went downhill from there .
The easiest way to tell the difference between pre 1986 and post for hats made for the US market is to look at the leather . If it says "Original House " then its an older hat . Once it says "Antica Casa " then we are talking modern Borsy.

I have this one which appears very old, with the oilcloth cover over the log, a paper tag, a serial number which starts with 41, but the leather is stamped "Antica Casa". However, it came with a business card of the retailer in Rome with a phone number on the card consisting of only 4 digits. Does the "Original House" and "Antica Casa" rule apply only to hats for export? This hat was purchased in Rome, but to me it is obviously an old hat. Here's the liner shot:

 

[besdor]

Your hat was meant for the Italian market where the stamp was always in Italian . The "original house" was probabaly for the US and maybe Canada as well .
Just as a side note , Canada seems to be a good source for old Borsalinos . I picked up a few last year while in Old Quebec . There were a few antique stores there in Quebec City and they had no idea what to charge for the hats . I was only happy to take them off their hands !! (or heads )


Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

 

[Baron Kurtz]

So, what's the word on this dating system (numbers)? Does it appear reliable? It would appear to me that it is not, from what i've read here.

To throw a spanner in the works, i have a Borsalino 'San Remo' i picked up for a song. The numbers inside are: 3590 and 30264. With the numbering system this would place it at 1930 or 1935. Now ... this hat has a 2" brim and an almost 4.5" crown. (I know for a fact that Portis (or maybe Ferry) was producing a hat in 1932 with a 2" brim - called The Freshman.) It also has the liner that was earlier identified as 1970s. Original House stamped on the sweatband.

I am certain this is not a 30s hat.

What is the history of the San Remo style? When did production start? Anyone know?

bk

 

[besdor]

San Remo

I believe this style started in the 1950's . We still sell it in our store today . It's one of Borsalino 's oldest styles along with the Alessandria .
The number that you had mentioned is a production number . As the years went by the number increased until the dating started in the mid 1970's .


Steven
www.bencrafthats.com