Dating borsalino liner logos

[rlk]

Luckily for you guys I've taken pics of it recently in preparation for selling.

This is the earliest paper label without the Borsalino script along the edge(still perforated edge and less plain typeface), used from early 50's through most of the 60's

 

[Baron Kurtz]

On a hat that is reported to have been purchased in 1938 … Which is the issue I'm trying to get to the bottom of.

What I'd really like to know is how those dates rlk (and others) posts were arrived at. A lot of what we think about vintage is more feel based than fact based. The number of unambiguously dated hats is vanishingly small, and I worry that the paper label info might be based on too small a sampling. I may be wrong; I may have missed an unequivocal source of information being shown/quoted (like a book or some info from the company regarding use of labels).

Here we have an example of a hat unambiguously bought in the late 1930s, bearing a label that people say was not used until the 1950s. I fear I may have introduced a new spanner into the Borsalino dating works.

 

[mayserwegener]

I would say later but as you say there is no way to prove it. Also your hat is well worn but it has similar characteristics to some of my 50s Echter Borsalinos with a similar paper labels.

There were J. Hückel´s Söhne (JHS) hats that were marked "Made in Germany" from the same source as the Bulgarian Borsalinos. This would heve been when Czechoslovakia was under German control (1938-45) so most likely looking at late 1930s very early 1940s (hat production stopped at JHS later into the war).

 

[rlk]

Most of peoples'/ stories about when items were purchased are wrong. Of course, dates of deaths are the most conclusive. The sample size for the Borsalino labels is now quite large. Precision dating is difficult, but the sequence of the use of each style of paper tag is now pretty clear enabling a range of possibility for each. Many hats with such datable specifics as newspapers, OPA,OPS, and date stamps on sweatbands have come up with consistent results. I would put personal memory(especially second or later hand) as one of the least reliable.

A latest possible date is quite reliable for the Bulgarian Borsalinos(and I now have one from Romania as well) since they use French street names and addresses that were destroyed during WW2 Bombardment and refer to the King. Earliest is more difficult. I do have Borsalino labels of a number of style that were earlier, hand written in gridded larger labels.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

As would I, most certainly. I don't have any horse in this race, tbh, I just want to know FINALLY how to at least loosely date a Borsalino.

I agree that people's remembrance of dates can be troublesome. (There is often very little concrete evidence to remind the person of exact dates.) In this case however, I feel that the nature of the date (just before leaving France in '38 to never return - you can imagine why!) is quite difficult to get wrong by decades!

The whole story of the purchase could, of course, in the words of the man, be bullshit.

 

[mayserwegener]

I am positive that the Echter Borsalino I posted on this thread is late 1930s very early 1940s. It matches up with some of the Bulgarian Borsalinos (paper label, sweatband, logos). Also never seen that type of sweatband on 1950s or later Borsalinos.

 

[mayserwegener]

Earliest is more difficult. I do have Borsalino labels of a number of style that were earlier, hand written in gridded larger labels.

I have come across early Borsalinos with similar labeling but ended up not bidding.

 

[alanfgag]

What I suspect to be my earliest Borsalino has a similar label to the one Steve posted, also with a separate size sticker. The label is damaged where a style and color might be imprinted, but I expect they were there as they are in Steve's. Other signs of age are subtle, but the sweatband is wide and finely stitched, with a thin hard reed that is very similar to my Bulgarian Barbisio homburg - most likely a pre-war hat. This Borsalino came from my wife's costume shop, without any stories, unfortunately.

 

[mayserwegener]

Alan, Thanks!

Here is a link that shows a range (1930s to 1970s) of Echter Borsalinos. The ones that I am most postive are from around WII have distressed finished sweatbands (see the one I posted on this thread). The paper labels all have Borsalino on the sides.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/50-borsalino-german-market/

 

[alicej]

Hiya!

I just started getting into vintage hats in the last year or so & have just purchased my first vintage borsalino. The lining is missing but i Love it & its so great to wear. I was wondering if anyone would have a clue of how old it is? The lady in the store said 30's but the manufacturers paper tag is completely unreadable & disintegrating :/ It has a Harry the hatmaker price tag of $20 inside the leather sweat band...

Here is a link to pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/102122177@N03/sets/72157635621486855/

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

[gtdean48]

Looks like early 50's to me, very similar sweat & all to one of mine....

Hiya!

I just started getting into vintage hats in the last year or so & have just purchased my first vintage borsalino. The lining is missing but i Love it & its so great to wear. I was wondering if anyone would have a clue of how old it is? The lady in the store said 30's but the manufacturers paper tag is completely unreadable & disintegrating :/ It has a Harry the hatmaker price tag of $20 inside the leather sweat band...

Here is a link to pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/102122177@N03/sets/72157635621486855/

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

[ScottSimon]

Hello! I'm new in these parts and was wanting some more info on my Torino. Here are some photos. Not sure how old this hat is. A guess would be 1977?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Best

Scott

 

[Windsock8e]

Hello,

I have come across a Borsalino in a shop which is a little pricey but nice. Trying to work out if it is worth the price. The label behind the hatband says " T2327 7238 MACCI410". There is no liner, just a plastic diamond with the Borsalino label stitched in. Any ideas or am I just adding more data to the mystery?

 

[alanfgag]

What the hat is worth to you is a mystery we won't be able to solve. You can google to see the price of a new Borsalino hat. If it fits you and you love it, you will likely not miss the money it costs over time.

 

[Redfokker]

What the hat is worth to you is a mystery we won't be able to solve. You can google to see the price of a new Borsalino hat. If it fits you and you love it, you will likely not miss the money it costs over time.

+1 from the wise one, heed his call!

 

[Windsock8e]

What the hat is worth to you is a mystery we won't be able to solve. You can google to see the price of a new Borsalino hat. If it fits you and you love it, you will likely not miss the money it costs over time.

Aah, I would normally agree, but then I am eyeing up some other hats and just received my first Fed IV (my wife has a mormon cousin and got really confused as she did not know what open crown meant/is and thought I was saying something) so I am in crazy hat acquisition mode but did not win the lottery ... have to make choices.

I am interested in the story behind the hat(s), so just trying to learn from all you guys.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[alanfgag]

Have a visit to the Borsalino Brotherhood thread for more information. On the crazy hat acquisition mode, I have no idea what you mean. 8^o

 

[Frunobulax]

Have a visit to the Borsalino Brotherhood thread for more information. On the crazy hat acquisition mode, I have no idea what you mean. 8^o

Heh. Understatement of the year.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[Altiori]

Greetings.

I recently acquired this Borsalino. It’s a beautiful hat but other than the liner and the band, it has provided me with little information.
I’ve been reading several threads here at FL in an attempt to get an approximate date and perhaps style.

I’m not sure if I have enough info.

Welcome expert assessment.

Band:: Export Qualitat (German market hat assume)
Gran Lusso
Antica Casa Fondata 1857
A “paper” tag but all info long since gone

Red liner with “plastic” oil guard

Appreciate your guidance.

Tks as always.