Crown height ?

[Mustang Mike's Hats]

As far as crown heights, i just see a hat that looks good to me and buy it. I don’t pay much attention to what the heights and widths are, just how it looks. Sometimes we overthink the whole dimensionality thing. Just like wearing them. Some days i feel like a wide brim, some days not.

Totally agree. My tag line kinda emphasizes that. The wearer should know if the hat is right for them, or not.

The mirror doesn't lie!

 

[alanfgag]

My ancestors lived in Crown Heights, but I think that might be off topic...

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

I think there's plenty place in this world for crowns of all heights.

 

[hatsandcanes]

Thanks for all the wonderful replies. I am not new to wearing hats and have about 20 in my collection mostly rabbit felt but a couple of nice 100 % beaver.I have been wearing fedoras for about 7 years everyday. I just like the look of a 4.5 to 5" crown so I tend to wear those more. I have several vintage hats with taller crowns that I don't wear because I feel like I have a top hat on. However, I will give them a try and see if they grow on me! Thanks everyone for making me feel welcome.

 

[scottyrocks]

I have found that even 1/8" makes a difference, to me anyway, of how a hat looks on me.

4.5" is my absolute max. 4.25" is usually perfect.

Experiment. It's worth it.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

I think there's plenty place in this world for crowns of all heights.



View attachment 150740 View attachment 150741

Too funny!!

 

[Xylophile]

It's almost a matter of practicality for me as my hair stands up straight and I don't like the hat touching my hair, so I want as tall a crown as possible. Good thing I like the way they look too. That usually means no center dent which is fine. I have kind of a weird steamed in crease on my Akubra Country Club which keeps it from mashing my hair down and lets the air from the vented crown blow right through.
No one notices the "oddity" in the crease but me I'm sure.

 

[Deeeluxe Definitely]

Hello,

Is it possible to take, say, a 5¼"-5½" open crown fur felt fedora and stretch the height to, say, 6" during a re-blocking? Maybe this is even common practice? Or perhaps impossible?

I have sent my hat in for work, and since I take good care of my hat, I figure I would like to get it refurbished to as close to new condition as possible. It has been restored as well as it can be (from the dusty, crumpled state I bought it in) without a reblocking, but since it is in the shop anyway, I may as well go all in.

I still plan to have to have the same final height once bashed, but I think I may prefer the vintage appearance of a deep crease, in comparison to the shallower creases seen more often in today's hats.

I have learned a lot in the past year, but I am still learning. I hope this doesn't come across as a stupid question.

Thank you much.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hello,

Is it possible to take, say, a 5¼"-5½" open crown fur felt fedora and stretch the height to, say, 6" during a re-blocking? Maybe this is even common practice? Or perhaps impossible?

I have sent my hat in for work, and since I take good care of my hat, I figure I would like to get it refurbished to as close to new condition as possible. It has been restored as well as it can be (from the dusty, crumpled state I bought it in) without a reblocking, but since it is in the shop anyway, I may as well go all in.

I still plan to have to have the same final height once bashed, but I think I may prefer the vintage appearance of a deep crease, in comparison to the shallower creases seen more often in today's hats.

I have learned a lot in the past year, but I am still learning. I hope this doesn't come across as a stupid question.

Thank you much.

The law of the conservation of felt states that felt has to come from somewhere.
You can steal crown height at the expense of brim width, but you can’t just add a 1/2 of crown from nowhere. I suppose it could come from thinning the felt, but that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Sorry.

EDIT: You can also add crown height by adding taper to the crown (re-blocking on a tapered block), but that’s hardly moving in the direction of the classic styling you’re after.

 

[Deeeluxe Definitely]

The law of the conservation of felt states that felt has to come from somewhere.
You can steal crown height at the expense of brim width, but you can’t just add a 1/2 of crown from nowhere. I suppose it could come from thinning the felt, but that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Sorry.

EDIT: You can also add crown height by adding taper to the crown (re-blocking on a tapered block), but that’s hardly moving in the direction of the classic styling you’re after.

Thank you for the information. That is unfortunate.

I think I would like my eventual hat to be a 6" open crown (very straight sided/square shouldered, wide ribbon) in high % beaver. I like the idea of vintage felt, but does a vintage 6" open crown black hat even exist, to anyone's knowledge? (Brim size irrelevant, as I'll just get it trimmed/flanged to the specs I already know I like.)

Maybe custom is my only option.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thank you for the information. That is unfortunate.

I think I would like my eventual hat to be a 6" open crown (very straight sided/square shouldered, wide ribbon) in high % beaver. I like the idea of vintage felt, but does a vintage 6" open crown black hat even exist, to anyone's knowledge? (Brim size irrelevant, as I'll just get it trimmed/flanged to the specs I already know I like.)

Maybe custom is my only option.

Custom is a great way to go. 6” open crown vintage fedoras aren’t too common. 5 5/8” is more common and can look great IMHO.

The hat companies weren’t good at telling us what types of fur their felt was made form. I suspect that most all of the great vintage fedoras many of us seek after didn’t have any beaver in the felt. Higher beaver percentages does not equal better felt. Rabbit and/or hare makes for better felt than beaver for some applications. For a soft vintage like fedora, I prefer FEPSA’s 50% beaver over their 100% beaver felt. Most all of the Borsalino felt that many of us put on the highest pedestal doesn’t have any beaver content. If you really want to go custom I’m sure others here will offer good advice on getting the type of felt you want.

 

[belfastboy]

Thank you for the information. That is unfortunate.

I think I would like my eventual hat to be a 6" open crown (very straight sided/square shouldered, wide ribbon) in high % beaver. I like the idea of vintage felt, but does a vintage 6" open crown black hat even exist, to anyone's knowledge? (Brim size irrelevant, as I'll just get it trimmed/flanged to the specs I already know I like.)

Maybe custom is my only option.

Another option is to purchase a used/vintage western hat with BIG proportions and get a hatter to reconfigure it to a fedora styling. See the work that T Jones does here. He is a magician turning westerns into wonderful fedoras.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Another option is to purchase a used/vintage western hat with BIG proportions and get a hatter to reconfigure it to a fedora styling. See the work that T Jones does here. He is a magician turning westerns into wonderful fedoras.

Absolutely, but then if you’re looking for vintage fedora/dress hat type of felt this isn’t an option. You can get the style and the proportions and the shape, but you won’t get the feel or the malleability of dress weight felt.

These are well-traveled roads for me. Having a large head that isn’t conducive to the vintage market, I’ve tried using newer western felt, vintage western felt, new rabbit, hare, beaver, and blended furs to get me where I wanted to be. I’ve had a lot fun along the way, but I’ve also realized that you really can’t get there on the cheap. If you want a great hat with great felt you have to be willing to spend a considerable amount.

 

[jlee562]

6" is pretty tall for a fedora style hat unless you're a person of above average proportions. Many mid century western style hats started 6" open crown.

There is theoretically a 6" open crown soft felt hat out there, but it's probably a pre-war vintage hat which would be inadvisable to modify. Moreover, even if we could tell you a hat model name, unless it's one of the few hat models that were stamped with said model name, it's not going to do you much good. Most eBay sellers can't even correctly identify some of the most well known hats. Heck, most of hats floating around the Lounge we just don't know the names of.

Food for thought: most Indiana Jones hats are made 5 1/2" open crown (though some are graduated in height according to size). This is considered a tall crown fedora these days. Many folks who jump headfirst into Indy hats often find that they "feel" a bit too tall. My Herbert Johnson is blocked at 5 1/8" for a size 7 and I would not want it any taller really.

Recently I made myself a 6" open crown hat. Before I settled into a western style horse shoe crease, I tried a few dry creases. The more traditional fedora creases (diamond, center dent, side dents) were too tall for me.

The standard Optimo Dillinger fedora (see: Johnny Drop in Public Enemies) was 5 3/4" open crown. I asked them to block mine lower because I thought that was too tall for me.

Now, I am a smaller person so YMMV, but I would caution against dropping cash for a custom 6" tall fedora unless you were really certain you could get the look you want. IMHO the thing working against you with regards to trying to match the looks of a vintage hat, is that today's dress weight felts are relatively thicker, which doesn't lend itself to tighter crease lines.

 

[Deeeluxe Definitely]

Thanks for the helpful replies, fellas.

@jlee562 - Oh, haha. No, I definitely won't be leaving it anywhere close to 6" once it's bashed. I just like the noir-y look of a deep crease. The final crown height will be much more proportioned, as I've had it before. Just with excess material.

This photo illustrates the look I'm aiming for in that regard. (But I aim for a slightly more steamed-in, precise crease.)

When trying to emulate this hat, Art Fawcett would start with a 6" OC and bash it down to, give-or-take, 4½", depending on the end user's proportions. But, from my research, it seems the 6" OC was invariably the starting point.

@belfastboy - Exactly what I was considering earlier tonight. A lot of ebay results emerge when looking up high beaver percentage vintage felt. My only concern was achieving that fedora softeness/pliability. It sounds worth looking into the conversion wizard in question!

@deadlyhandsome - Thanks for the caveats. I agree; I prefer my hat's look and feel to the two vintages I've owned and handled, and it is rabbit and newer (maybe 25 years old or so). It is thick like I prefer - the raw edge looks great on a thicker felt (I respect and appreciate edge treatments, but it's a raw edge only for me) - but also soft, with a wonderful snap, and it holds creases well (I'm the type to not change up my creases once I get them like I like, so soft sculptability/pliability isn't too needed).

Trust me, I do see the appeal in collecting many hats. But my objective is to achieve the one hat I see as perfect for me and my tastes (it will look a lot like the image attached, but black, raw edge, and a ~2" ribbon). I have been honing and zeroing on the ideal hat for me, and it's mostly just a question of materials. Be that some percentage of beaver, vintage felts, or a combination. I take pristine care of my few most valued possessions, but I want something that will last a lifetime with the least need for re-blocking.

Thanks again for all the help, and with your patience for my peculiarity and lack of conciseness.

 

[jlee562]

....umm, so, no, I was not under the impression that you were going to leave it at 6" open crown. My point is that 6" is not common a height for a fedora style hat.

Have no idea what you mean by "more steamed in." But as I mentioned above, another factor in why vintage hats look the way they do is because the felt was thinner. Thickness is not your friend if that's the look you want. I've put diamond creases in far more than two vintage hats. It also seems contradictory to me that you want 'soft, with a wonderful snap' but find yourself unconcerned with 'soft sculptability/pliability isn't too needed.'

Yes, actually you should be concerned with pliability, because if the felt you're using is not pliable enough, you are going to get spidering all over the tight points.

FYI, this is a 6" open crown #52 block creased to about 4.5"


this is a 5 1/2" open crown #52 block creased a hair higher than 4 1/2 in front.

 

[T Jones]

Another option is to purchase a used/vintage western hat with BIG proportions and get a hatter to reconfigure it to a fedora styling. See the work that T Jones does here. He is a magician turning westerns into wonderful fedoras.

Thank you BB. I appreciate that. Converting a Western would definitely work to get the proportions Deeeluxe D is looking for, if he doesn't mind the stiffness. But it would definitely work. On the other hand, if he's wanting something a little more similar to a vintage feel a custom build might be his best option. So maybe you and he can get together on a build?

Here's a Resistol Stagecoach that I converted some time back...

Before:

After: tall straight crown:

On the head: in b&w

I also agree with J Lee about crown height and crown shape to a person's body proportions and head shape. As a general rule I think 5 3/4 is plenty tall for a fedora. On the other hand, someone with DH's physical proportions and head shape can easily pull off a 6 inch open crown height with a wider brim. CVW posted a hat he made with those proportions that would've worked out perfect for DH.

Again, maybe you and Deeeluxe can get together on a build.

 

[Frunobulax]

There is theoretically a 6" open crown soft felt hat out there, but it's probably a pre-war vintage hat which would be inadvisable to modify.

I'm lucky enough to have found a couple - and not pre-war - but they're out there.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thanks for the helpful replies, fellas.

@jlee562 - Oh, haha. No, I definitely won't be leaving it anywhere close to 6" once it's bashed. I just like the noir-y look of a deep crease. The final crown height will be much more proportioned, as I've had it before. Just with excess material.

This photo illustrates the look I'm aiming for in that regard. (But I aim for a slightly more steamed-in, precise crease.) View attachment 368414

When trying to emulate this hat, Art Fawcett would start with a 6" OC and bash it down to, give-or-take, 4½", depending on the end user's proportions. But, from my research, it seems the 6" OC was invariably the starting point.

@belfastboy - Exactly what I was considering earlier tonight. A lot of ebay results emerge when looking up high beaver percentage vintage felt. My only concern was achieving that fedora softeness/pliability. It sounds worth looking into the conversion wizard in question!

@deadlyhandsome - Thanks for the caveats. I agree; I prefer my hat's look and feel to the two vintages I've owned and handled, and it is rabbit and newer (maybe 25 years old or so). It is thick like I prefer - the raw edge looks great on a thicker felt (I respect and appreciate edge treatments, but it's a raw edge only for me) - but also soft, with a wonderful snap, and it holds creases well (I'm the type to not change up my creases once I get them like I like, so soft sculptability/pliability isn't too needed).

Trust me, I do see the appeal in collecting many hats. But my objective is to achieve the one hat I see as perfect for me and my tastes (it will look a lot like the image attached, but black, raw edge, and a ~2" ribbon). I have been honing and zeroing on the ideal hat for me, and it's mostly just a question of materials. Be that some percentage of beaver, vintage felts, or a combination. I take pristine care of my few most valued possessions, but I want something that will last a lifetime with the least need for re-blocking.

Thanks again for all the help, and with your patience for my peculiarity and lack of conciseness.

If the crease in the photo is what you are after then you want thin very malleable felt. You can’t duplicate that with most current dress weight hats and certainly not with western weight felt. I love my VS hats from Art, but I think Gannon would be my first choice for this as his crowns are the thinnest and densest of any of my custom hats (VS remains, but Art is no longer making hats). It seems as if you want incompatible qualities: think felt and a tight deep crease.

Nothing wrong with a raw edge. I think they work best for rugged outdoorsy type hats or at least casual vibe hats, but then that’s not the type of hat in your photo. My favorite brim edge treatment is the feted Cavanagh edge, but then we’re back to vintage only hats. I’m not saying you can’t make a raw edge work for a dress hat, it’s just less dressy and less finished to my eye.

I don’t know what you mean by “high percentage beaver felt” in the used market. The hat companies generally have not disclosed beaver content. If you know a way of determining beaver content please let me/us know.

I have several custom fedoras with six inch or more open crowns. These are 7 5/8 to 7 3/4 (Gannon) hats and I’m regrettably not a svelte guy. Any taller would look clownish in a fedora. If you’re a smaller hat size and/or a smaller person (I’m working on it) six inches might be too much. I’d wager that relatively few of Art’s custom fedoras were made with a full 6” open crown…Art himself would certainly look odd in such a tall crown.

Good luck, and post photos of whatever you end up with.

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks for the helpful replies, fellas.

@jlee562 - Oh, haha. No, I definitely won't be leaving it anywhere close to 6" once it's bashed. I just like the noir-y look of a deep crease. The final crown height will be much more proportioned, as I've had it before. Just with excess material.

This photo illustrates the look I'm aiming for in that regard. (But I aim for a slightly more steamed-in, precise crease.) View attachment 368414

When trying to emulate this hat, Art Fawcett would start with a 6" OC and bash it down to, give-or-take, 4½", depending on the end user's proportions. But, from my research, it seems the 6" OC was invariably the starting point.

@belfastboy - Exactly what I was considering earlier tonight. A lot of ebay results emerge when looking up high beaver percentage vintage felt. My only concern was achieving that fedora softeness/pliability. It sounds worth looking into the conversion wizard in question!

@deadlyhandsome - Thanks for the caveats. I agree; I prefer my hat's look and feel to the two vintages I've owned and handled, and it is rabbit and newer (maybe 25 years old or so). It is thick like I prefer - the raw edge looks great on a thicker felt (I respect and appreciate edge treatments, but it's a raw edge only for me) - but also soft, with a wonderful snap, and it holds creases well (I'm the type to not change up my creases once I get them like I like, so soft sculptability/pliability isn't too needed).

Trust me, I do see the appeal in collecting many hats. But my objective is to achieve the one hat I see as perfect for me and my tastes (it will look a lot like the image attached, but black, raw edge, and a ~2" ribbon). I have been honing and zeroing on the ideal hat for me, and it's mostly just a question of materials. Be that some percentage of beaver, vintage felts, or a combination. I take pristine care of my few most valued possessions, but I want something that will last a lifetime with the least need for re-blocking.

Thanks again for all the help, and with your patience for my peculiarity and lack of conciseness.

Given your parametres it would seem that custom is the way to go. You will get the hat you want and save yourself much time and angst and mistakes than entering into the vintage hunt.