24 Rules For Gentlemen in 2014

[LizzieMaine]

Most of all, though, a *real* gentleman doesn't take advice from teenage boys pretending to be grownups on the Internet.

 

[Foxer55]

In the vein of the moment I just came across this flash posting of an article by Camille Paglia who I consider an iconic reporter of contemporary culture. She considers herself an anti-feminist feminist and has a score of first class books to her credit.

It’s a Man’s World, And It Always Will Be

"Is it any wonder that so many high-achieving young women, despite all the happy talk about their academic success, find themselves in the early stages of their careers in chronic uncertainty or anxiety about their prospects for an emotionally fulfilled private life? When an educated culture routinely denigrates masculinity and manhood, then women will be perpetually stuck with boys, who have no incentive to mature or to honor their commitments. And without strong men as models to either embrace or (for dissident lesbians) to resist, women will never attain a centered and profound sense of themselves as women."

http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/16/its-a-mans-world-and-it-always-will-be/#ixzz2nf2tddZ7

 

[HudsonHawk]

Most of all, though, a *real* gentleman doesn't take advice from teenage boys pretending to be grownups on the Internet.

Getting behavioral advice from yahoos on the internet is generally a bad idea, irrespective of who gives it.

 

[sheeplady]

One must not apply ones own values to the seething mass of peasantry that is much of the "younger" generation. I am 23 myself and quite familiar with the crowd about town and there are very few of us with with any elegance or class left. I would wager that 85% of the men about are the "bad boy" type and the other are Bowdoin college types who are different in that they dress different and use more expensive drugs. It only makes sense that the girls are inclined to these types as they are for the most part the only men around.

I guess I am just puzzled by this outlook because it seems to assume that girls are some sort of "pure" sex, for lack of a better word. If the vast majority of young men are as you describe, then it would reason that the vast majority of women probably aren't winners either. But the way that the "nice guy finishes last" argument seems to work is that there is this huge pool of attractive, kind, gentle, wonderful women who are attracted to (the majority of) men who are sleezeballs and scum.

If women were seen as equally likely to be sleazy, then those nice guys who are mistreated would thank heavens that they avoided a horrific mistake rather than bemoaning the fact that all the nice girls they've met want sleaze. Instead "the women" in these arguments are presented as highly functioning, wonderful, nice people- who happen to have a soft spot for degenerates. I'd argue- any woman who wants or doesn't mind a man mistreating her probably has a whole host of issues going on OR is the same type of sleaze.

There's about equal scum between the sexes in my personal opinion.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

I can say from personal experience that I long felt that the idea that women were largely attracted to sleazy a-holes must be true. Not that it is true in absolutely every case, but from my experience it seemed to hold true for a long time. Given the option of either becoming a sleazy a-hole myself or utterly refusing to take part in this vile culture which presented itself, I chose the latter. I reasoned that I am who I am, and to hell with any woman who thinks that isn't good enough or wants a degenerate dirtbag instead. I would rather be single than be with a woman who wants a dirtbag who mistreats her.

As it turns out, I met a lovely young woman who appreciated my kindness and gentlemanly manner, and who actually had healthy self image and expected to be treated with respect as well as courtesy. She's now my wife of nearly seven years. There are a few good ones to be found, apparently, my fellow gentlemen. Don't give up being who you want to be just to get some foolish girl to like you.

 

[Edward]

I saw a lot of this among students when I was doing grad school in the US. Many young men (and I assume old ones, too) seem to confuse decisiveness and confidence (positive traits in anyone's book) with self centred obstinacy (if I can't have it my way, it's over!) and brash, unwavering rudeness. such people tend to describe themselves as "straight talking".

I see it a lot online too, not exclusively coming from the US but it does seem to be a more prevalent view over there. (Mind you, the Brits can't talk when Danny Dyer was able to say what he did without being tarred and feathered for it. Shame on Auntie for employing him now, sans retraction...). In my mind, there is something fundamentally psychologically flawed in any male of the species who considers women as some sort of opponent, to be outmanouevered. But then I am also of the opinion that there is also something dreadfully insecure about any man who would behave in such a fashion in order to attract a mate for fear of otherwise being alone.

Most of all, though, a *real* gentleman doesn't take advice from teenage boys pretending to be grownups on the Internet.

Indeed. Teenage boys of all ages have, sadly, rather too loud a voice in the online world.

In the vein of the moment I just came across this flash posting of an article by Camille Paglia who I consider an iconic reporter of contemporary culture. She considers herself an anti-feminist feminist and has a score of first class books to her credit.

It’s a Man’s World, And It Always Will Be

"Is it any wonder that so many high-achieving young women, despite all the happy talk about their academic success, find themselves in the early stages of their careers in chronic uncertainty or anxiety about their prospects for an emotionally fulfilled private life? When an educated culture routinely denigrates masculinity and manhood, then women will be perpetually stuck with boys, who have no incentive to mature or to honor their commitments. And without strong men as models to either embrace or (for dissident lesbians) to resist, women will never attain a centered and profound sense of themselves as women."

http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/16/its-a-mans-world-and-it-always-will-be/#ixzz2nf2tddZ7

Paglia is an interesting thinker, though I often disagree with her. Anyone who thinks that "masculinity" is denigrated by our contemporary Western culture is either sadly deluded, or tends to rather unpleasant views about what constitutes "a real man". Often both.

 

[ButteMT61]

Advice for 20-something "men" and a 30/40/50/60 year old are not the same, mainly because 20/30/40/50/60 women are not the same. I think that's what was meant in the "offending" post.

Now, I like the list below as it should cover all the groups above, but let's not pretend that being a "gentleman" works with young women - it often doesn't. Lizzie would say "is that the kind of "woman" you want to be with? Well, I know that in my 20's, I had way-different criteria than later in life.
Actually, most of what 20-somethings do should be a Mulligan until you show you've moved on and upward. lol

A *real* gentleman always puts the toilet seat down after he's done. Or, sits

A *real* gentleman doesn't hold up the ticket line complaining that he wants a better seat. True, he buys tickets early to avoid being embarrassed and an ass.

A *real* gentleman shovels out his own sidewalk. Actually, he shovels his own sidewalk and any neighbors that might need help too.

A *real* gentleman never takes the last roll in the basket. Right. He goes to the kitchen and makes more.

A *real* gentleman always pulls ahead to the furthest gas pump. Can't improve upon that one.

A *real* gentleman knows he isn't the center of the universe. A real gentleman marries someone to remind him of that

 

[cpdv]

I guess I am just puzzled by this outlook because it seems to assume that girls are some sort of "pure" sex, for lack of a better word. If the vast majority of young men are as you describe, then it would reason that the vast majority of women probably aren't winners either. But the way that the "nice guy finishes last" argument seems to work is that there is this huge pool of attractive, kind, gentle, wonderful women who are attracted to (the majority of) men who are sleezeballs and scum.

If women were seen as equally likely to be sleazy, then those nice guys who are mistreated would thank heavens that they avoided a horrific mistake rather than bemoaning the fact that all the nice girls they've met want sleaze. Instead "the women" in these arguments are presented as highly functioning, wonderful, nice people- who happen to have a soft spot for degenerates. I'd argue- any woman who wants or doesn't mind a man mistreating her probably has a whole host of issues going on OR is the same type of sleaze.

There's about equal scum between the sexes in my personal opinion.

My point being just that, they are both raised to be base in nature. Especially around where I live. Maine and miss Maine might argue is not a righteous bulwark of new england puritanism. In the towns its a bunch of rude, crude people with a massive amthetimine and stimulant problem right under the surface. There is not much in the way of class or concern for anything but the Friday, Saturday drunken hookup. Most long term relationships come out of woman "forgetting" birth control pills because they get more welfare money if they have kids. 1:00am can be quite the show if you enjoy people watching. It's a dead state with a dead economy with vast number of people with one goal feel as good as possible during the weekend and work all week so that you can afford Friday and Saturday.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

A *real* gentleman shovels out his own sidewalk.

And real gentlemen do not drive snowploughs.

[video=youtube;iGvJui_XhMc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGvJui_XhMc[/video]

 

[LizzieMaine]

My point being just that, they are both raised to be base in nature. Especially around where I live. Maine and miss Maine might argue is not a righteous bulwark of new england puritanism. In the towns its a bunch of rude, crude people with a massive amthetimine and stimulant problem right under the surface. There is not much in the way of class or concern for anything but the Friday, Saturday drunken hookup. Most long term relationships come out of woman "forgetting" birth control pills because they get more welfare money if they have kids. 1:00am can be quite the show if you enjoy people watching. It's a dead state with a dead economy with vast number of people with one goal feel as good as possible during the weekend and work all week so that you can afford Friday and Saturday.

I've got several young women in their early twenties working for me right now who don't fit those descriptions at all -- they're decent, honest, clean-living working people.

They do exist, but most of the young men around here seem to be so focused on -- ah -- the lay of the land that they don't bother with them. Which, from the women's point of view, is a very good thing -- women with self-respect want a man who will respect them as human beings, not sex toys. If you aren't meeting such women, I might suggest hanging around outside bars at 1 AM snickering at The Lower Orders isn't the best place to look. Nor is it particularly "gentlemanly".

And if you don't mind a little kindly advice, twenty-three is much too young to be so jaded about life and relationships. I've got dust under my refrigerator that's older than you, and I don't mind hearing that kind of stuff from people my age. Chances are they've had enough experience in their lives to justify it. But to hear it coming from someone who's just twenty-three would likely make any young woman stop and think "Jeez, if he's this much fun now, imagine what a great life partner he'll be twenty-five years from now. Oooweee." The kind of women you seem to want to meet aren't impressed by that kind of pseudo-sophistication, nor are they especially impressed by the car you drive, the clothes you wear, or which fork you use to eat your pork chops. What they're interested in is someone who understands that they aren't just a lifestyle accessory.

All you guys who are complaining that "nice guys don't get any" maybe need to tell yourselves that real "nice guys" aren't always looking for some. And govern your relationships accordingly.

And I'd watch that "peasantry" stuff. A lot of us peasants will put you in your place pretty damn fast with an attitude like that.

 

[cpdv]

I've got several young women in their early twenties working for me right now who don't fit those descriptions at all -- they're decent, honest, clean-living working people.

They do exist, but most of the young men around here seem to be so focused on -- ah -- the lay of the land that they don't bother with them. Which, from the women's point of view, is a very good thing -- women with self-respect want a man who will respect them as human beings, not sex toys. If you aren't meeting such women, I might suggest hanging around outside bars at 1 AM snickering at The Lower Orders isn't the best place to look. Nor is it particularly "gentlemanly".

And if you don't mind a little kindly advice, twenty-three is much too young to be so jaded about life and relationships. I've got dust under my refrigerator that's older than you, and I don't mind hearing that kind of stuff from people my age. Chances are they've had enough experience in their lives to justify it. But to hear it coming from someone who's just twenty-three would likely make any young woman stop and think "Jeez, if he's this much fun now, imagine what a great life partner he'll be twenty-five years from now. Oooweee."

And I'd watch that "peasantry" stuff. A lot of us peasants will put you in your place pretty damn fast with an attitude like that.

Madame, just because someone is young does not mean that they do not at my young age have to be a fool about life. I would have to delve into my personal life which I have no desire to do here to illuminate why I look at the world as I do. Also I am actually quite the pleasant person to be around even if synical and blasé... its all part of being a dandy. As for the lower orders I am frequently in the company of such people though I do not indulge in their behavior and nor am I wanting for girls of quality I know and socialize with quite a few. Apologize,I know my bloodline and while I hold no lands and live paycheck to paycheck myself I attempt to hold myself to a higher standard than the average bar goer in my social group. And if someone wishes to act rude, crude boisterous and vile in public then I shall call them a peasant. As for on here I don't see anyone who could meet that description that I am aware of.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There is no cynicism so fierce -- and so unfortunate -- as the blind cynicism of youth.

Good luck, kid.

 

[Guttersnipe]

The Nice Guys Finish Last schtick is just another symptom of what I call 21st Century Man-Child Disorder. This disorder effects males of the late Gen X and Millennial age cohorts. A 21st Century Man-Child believes he's a unique, misunderstood, victimized snowflake. To protect fragile egos, which cannot handle the possibility that their own interpersonal shortcomings are at fault for romantic failures, they create a myth that womankind no longer desires so-called Nice Guys. Of course, in this context, a "Nice Guy" means a whiney, codependent, needy adult baby . . .

EDIT:

And, yes, I am directly addressing the guys in this thread throwing themselves a pity party. I know from personal experience, that in their early 20s, essentially all people, male and female, are complete and utter morons as far as relationships go . . . When I learned to stop feeling like a victim and be my authentic self, I found very quickly that many wonderful women came into my life and I ultimately met The One.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I know my bloodline too and am quite proud of it. It goes in through the atrium and out through the aorta.

 

[sheeplady]

The Nice Guys Finish Last schtick is just another symptom of what I call 21st Century Man-Child Disorder. This disorder effects males of the late Gen X and Millennial age cohorts. A 21st Century Man-Child believes he's a unique, misunderstood, victimized snowflake. To protect fragile egos, which cannot handle the possibility that their own interpersonal shortcomings are at fault for romantic failures, they create a myth that womankind no longer desires so-called Nice Guys. Of course, in this context, a "Nice Guy" means a whiney, codependent, needy adult baby . . .

I think that might be a little bit of an extreme viewpoint, but you hit the nail on the head for one thing I dislike about the people I've met who claim "nice guy syndrome"- I hate the "victimization" aspect of it. You are not a victim if a girl doesn't like you. You are not a victim if a girl dumps you. You're not a victim if a girl doesn't want to sleep with you.

Also, everybody I've ever met in person who claims up front he's a "nice guy" to me or one of my friends typically isn't. Kind of the same experience I've had with men who claim to be feminists. If you're a nice guy or a feminist you don't need to label yourself as such, we'll figure it out.

I feel sorry for people who get treated badly in relationships. But just because you're not getting what you want doesn't give you an excuse to be nasty to other people.

 

[1961MJS]

I started to comment on this thread when it started. I'm SOOOOO glad I resisted that temptation. The more I find out about women, the more I figure out that I don't know.

Later!!

 

[LizzieMaine]

Also, everybody I've ever met in person who claims up front he's a "nice guy" to me or one of my friends typically isn't. Kind of the same experience I've had with men who claim to be feminists. If you're a nice guy or a feminist you don't need to label yourself as such, we'll figure it out.

Nice guys, like True Gentlemen, have no need to advertise themselves as such. I have a feeling that Internet Nice Guys are like Internet Gentlemen, only not so fixated on their shoes.

 

[cpdv]

It is rather a dogfight, like a scene out of hells angels. For the record I treat people who deserve respect (in my opinion) with respect and until proven otherwise it goes without saying that one should treat woman with respect. I have no use for unintelligent easy girls the rest of the guys are welcome to them. I much prefer a goofy semi nerd a much better choice I think.

 

[Guttersnipe]

I think that might be a little bit of an extreme viewpoint, but you hit the nail on the head for one thing I dislike about the people I've met who claim "nice guy syndrome"- I hate the "victimization" aspect of it. You are not a victim if a girl doesn't like you. You are not a victim if a girl dumps you. You're not a victim if a girl doesn't want to sleep with you.

Also, everybody I've ever met in person who claims up front he's a "nice guy" to me or one of my friends typically isn't. Kind of the same experience I've had with men who claim to be feminists. If you're a nice guy or a feminist you don't need to label yourself as such, we'll figure it out.

I feel sorry for people who get treated badly in relationships. But just because you're not getting what you want doesn't give you an excuse to be nasty to other people.

Must be the enthusiasm of a convert.

 

[ButteMT61]

BTW, when I was in my 20's and I discovered the many challenges of dating, it wasn't that I didn't want a "nice girl" it just seemed that (maybe it's being in LA) the nicer I was and more thoughtful I was, the faster they ran. When I stepped back about 10 notches, things were OK. But I think for me, real happiness sorta hit around 30. You are OK with what you are and smarter. You also don't care about what others think of you. Substitute Me for the "you's" there.