LizzieMaine
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Most of all, though, a *real* gentleman doesn't take advice from teenage boys pretending to be grownups on the Internet.
Most of all, though, a *real* gentleman doesn't take advice from teenage boys pretending to be grownups on the Internet.
One must not apply ones own values to the seething mass of peasantry that is much of the "younger" generation. I am 23 myself and quite familiar with the crowd about town and there are very few of us with with any elegance or class left. I would wager that 85% of the men about are the "bad boy" type and the other are Bowdoin college types who are different in that they dress different and use more expensive drugs. It only makes sense that the girls are inclined to these types as they are for the most part the only men around.
I saw a lot of this among students when I was doing grad school in the US. Many young men (and I assume old ones, too) seem to confuse decisiveness and confidence (positive traits in anyone's book) with self centred obstinacy (if I can't have it my way, it's over!) and brash, unwavering rudeness. such people tend to describe themselves as "straight talking".
Most of all, though, a *real* gentleman doesn't take advice from teenage boys pretending to be grownups on the Internet.
In the vein of the moment I just came across this flash posting of an article by Camille Paglia who I consider an iconic reporter of contemporary culture. She considers herself an anti-feminist feminist and has a score of first class books to her credit.
It’s a Man’s World, And It Always Will Be
"Is it any wonder that so many high-achieving young women, despite all the happy talk about their academic success, find themselves in the early stages of their careers in chronic uncertainty or anxiety about their prospects for an emotionally fulfilled private life? When an educated culture routinely denigrates masculinity and manhood, then women will be perpetually stuck with boys, who have no incentive to mature or to honor their commitments. And without strong men as models to either embrace or (for dissident lesbians) to resist, women will never attain a centered and profound sense of themselves as women."
http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/16/its-a-mans-world-and-it-always-will-be/#ixzz2nf2tddZ7
I guess I am just puzzled by this outlook because it seems to assume that girls are some sort of "pure" sex, for lack of a better word. If the vast majority of young men are as you describe, then it would reason that the vast majority of women probably aren't winners either. But the way that the "nice guy finishes last" argument seems to work is that there is this huge pool of attractive, kind, gentle, wonderful women who are attracted to (the majority of) men who are sleezeballs and scum.
If women were seen as equally likely to be sleazy, then those nice guys who are mistreated would thank heavens that they avoided a horrific mistake rather than bemoaning the fact that all the nice girls they've met want sleaze. Instead "the women" in these arguments are presented as highly functioning, wonderful, nice people- who happen to have a soft spot for degenerates. I'd argue- any woman who wants or doesn't mind a man mistreating her probably has a whole host of issues going on OR is the same type of sleaze.
There's about equal scum between the sexes in my personal opinion.
A *real* gentleman shovels out his own sidewalk.
My point being just that, they are both raised to be base in nature. Especially around where I live. Maine and miss Maine might argue is not a righteous bulwark of new england puritanism. In the towns its a bunch of rude, crude people with a massive amthetimine and stimulant problem right under the surface. There is not much in the way of class or concern for anything but the Friday, Saturday drunken hookup. Most long term relationships come out of woman "forgetting" birth control pills because they get more welfare money if they have kids. 1:00am can be quite the show if you enjoy people watching. It's a dead state with a dead economy with vast number of people with one goal feel as good as possible during the weekend and work all week so that you can afford Friday and Saturday.
Madame, just because someone is young does not mean that they do not at my young age have to be a fool about life. I would have to delve into my personal life which I have no desire to do here to illuminate why I look at the world as I do. Also I am actually quite the pleasant person to be around even if synical and blasé... its all part of being a dandy. As for the lower orders I am frequently in the company of such people though I do not indulge in their behavior and nor am I wanting for girls of quality I know and socialize with quite a few. Apologize,I know my bloodline and while I hold no lands and live paycheck to paycheck myself I attempt to hold myself to a higher standard than the average bar goer in my social group. And if someone wishes to act rude, crude boisterous and vile in public then I shall call them a peasant. As for on here I don't see anyone who could meet that description that I am aware of.I've got several young women in their early twenties working for me right now who don't fit those descriptions at all -- they're decent, honest, clean-living working people.
They do exist, but most of the young men around here seem to be so focused on -- ah -- the lay of the land that they don't bother with them. Which, from the women's point of view, is a very good thing -- women with self-respect want a man who will respect them as human beings, not sex toys. If you aren't meeting such women, I might suggest hanging around outside bars at 1 AM snickering at The Lower Orders isn't the best place to look. Nor is it particularly "gentlemanly".
And if you don't mind a little kindly advice, twenty-three is much too young to be so jaded about life and relationships. I've got dust under my refrigerator that's older than you, and I don't mind hearing that kind of stuff from people my age. Chances are they've had enough experience in their lives to justify it. But to hear it coming from someone who's just twenty-three would likely make any young woman stop and think "Jeez, if he's this much fun now, imagine what a great life partner he'll be twenty-five years from now. Oooweee."
And I'd watch that "peasantry" stuff. A lot of us peasants will put you in your place pretty damn fast with an attitude like that.
The Nice Guys Finish Last schtick is just another symptom of what I call 21st Century Man-Child Disorder. This disorder effects males of the late Gen X and Millennial age cohorts. A 21st Century Man-Child believes he's a unique, misunderstood, victimized snowflake. To protect fragile egos, which cannot handle the possibility that their own interpersonal shortcomings are at fault for romantic failures, they create a myth that womankind no longer desires so-called Nice Guys. Of course, in this context, a "Nice Guy" means a whiney, codependent, needy adult baby . . .
Also, everybody I've ever met in person who claims up front he's a "nice guy" to me or one of my friends typically isn't. Kind of the same experience I've had with men who claim to be feminists. If you're a nice guy or a feminist you don't need to label yourself as such, we'll figure it out.
I think that might be a little bit of an extreme viewpoint, but you hit the nail on the head for one thing I dislike about the people I've met who claim "nice guy syndrome"- I hate the "victimization" aspect of it. You are not a victim if a girl doesn't like you. You are not a victim if a girl dumps you. You're not a victim if a girl doesn't want to sleep with you.
Also, everybody I've ever met in person who claims up front he's a "nice guy" to me or one of my friends typically isn't. Kind of the same experience I've had with men who claim to be feminists. If you're a nice guy or a feminist you don't need to label yourself as such, we'll figure it out.
I feel sorry for people who get treated badly in relationships. But just because you're not getting what you want doesn't give you an excuse to be nasty to other people.