1930's teardrop fedora worn in 1909

[metropd]

Shows the classic fedora of 30's and 40's was worn as early as the turn of the century. This picture was taken in Italy in 1909. I will post more pictures from the teens and 20's of the wide brimmed teardrop fedora with the front pinch being worn. I spotted 2 people with this style in this picture.

 

[J. M. Stovall]

Very interesting! I'm always telling people that this stuff cannot be divided cleanly into eras.

 

[shortbow]

Man, I'd need really solid attribution before I could believe that is 1909.[huh]

 

[feltfan]

I'm with Shortbow. Not a derby in sight.
1920s-30s at the earliest, I'd guess. Look at the women's hats.
If it really is Italy, it could even be early 50s.

I have a framed albumen photo of Milan taken in 1908-
I defer to the photographic historians among us, but
that doesn't look like a 1909 lens or print. Look for images
that are more like this:

[overcoats to die for, I might add]

All of which is not to say Metropd's thesis is entirely wrong.
Anyone who has the book, "Men's Hats" from Chronicle Books
can look up Borsalinos from as early as 1875, 1899, and 1901
to find very fedora-like hats.

 

[metropd]

I got this from a picture on ebay where the seller was positive it was from 1909. If you look at some of the suits with no coats They are no later than 1919. Look at the hats they have the brim curled and a center dent with side dents and no front pinch. Very popular at the turn of century. And defiantly the elongated skirts fell out of fashion after 1920. I can spot quite a couple. If the date is wrong I am sure it no later than the early 40's. I can guarantee there would not be multiple Italians wearing post-sack suit, pre- jazz suit, "suits". I don't even no if there is a name to describe this style suit.

Think about it. There was already snap brim fedoras in a center dent with no curl or pencil curl brims in existence by the very late 1800's. How hard would it be for a man to customize it into a teardrop. Not very hard at all.

 

[scotrace]

I hate to refute you outright, my friend, but this photo is absolutely, positively, no earlier than about 1928 - 1930. I'd put it at about 1934. The lady's hats, men's hair and sunglasses, clothes, HATS, all of it says thirties. It is most definitely, without any shade of doubt, not 1909. Or 1919 for that matter.

The major ID is the women in the photo. Men's styles don't change dramatically by decade (though 1930's menswear was quite different from 1909 as well) but women's styles change annually - so what a (young) woman is wearing in a photo will help date it within 5 years. The women in this photograph take it out of the early twentieth century altogether.

 

[deanglen]

I have to agree with Scotrace. Even the qualities of the black and white image has the characteristics of later era photographic technology, along with fashions unquestionably 1930s. Still, a great hat study!






dean

 

[Subvet642]

I have to agree with Scotrace. Even the qualities of the black and white image has the characteristics of later era photographic technology, along with fashions unquestionably 1930s. Still, a great hat study!
dean

Films and emulsions of that era (~1909) were orthochromatic and thus very blue sensitive. If you've ever seen a photo of "Old Glory" from that era, you will remember the blue field would be very light in appearance. Images made with this kind of film would have a lower contrast and "hazy-er" appearance than ones made later with panchromatic films. However, the shadows in prints made from ortho films will be lighter and with more detail, generally, than pan films due to the shadows being illuminated by the cool indirect light of the sky to which it is very sensitive. The first photo shows none of these traits; therefore I would place the photo at no earlier than mid 20's.

 

[Bob Smalser]

Amazon.com's participating booksellers have used reprints of the 1902 and 1927 Sears catalogs for not much more than the price of the postage.

The hats in the lead photo clearly reflect 1927 fashions as opposed to 1902 fashions, where you'll see a lot of derbies, curled brims and narrow pinches in "Alpine", "Trebor" and "Youman" styles.

Mostly what Sears called a fedora in 1902 would be called a Homburg today, but of 50 or so hats listed there are three "New Style Fedoras" with 2 1/4 - 2 5/8" snap brims and 5 1/4" open crowns. One of those three has a bound brim.

Even the 1902 Sears (Pilgrim label) version of the open-crowned Open Road was called "The Columbia" and had a curled brim.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Man, I'd need really solid attribution before I could believe that is 1909.[huh]

As Scotrace has pointed out, it is in fact from the early 1930s. I'm willing to bet money on this. The ladies in the photo are wearing early '30s hats that have nothing to do with the styles of 1909.

I got this from a picture on ebay where the seller was positive it was from 1909.

The seller is incorrect: a typical occurrence on eBay. Caveat emptor.

...the elongated skirts fell out of fashion after 1920.

... and went very much back into fashion in the early 1930s.
Plenty of fedoras here from as early as 1916: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=21548

.

 

[Lefty]

unless...

 

[DOUGLAS]

For reference

A family photo that is from the early teens

And another from the same general period

 

[Dewhurst]

We have so many historians here!

(Is that a quadruple post above?!?! Nice, very nice.)

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Absolutely man, this is an old fashioned website. No BS about multiple posting here …

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

We have so many historians here!

Why yes, we do. Surprise!

(Is that a quadruple post above?!?! Nice, very nice.)

Why, thank you! :icon_smil

.

 

[rlk]

Stieglitz "Steerage" of 1907

Some non-wealth.y persons in a famous 1907 photograph.

 

[rlk]

Paul Strand 1916 Photos

 

[metropd]

Well I am wrong. Thank you all for correcting me.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Naw, you were just led astray by an eBay seller. Happens all the time. You quickly learn not to trust most of what they say.

Brad

 

[Lefty]

Here's Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. holding up Charlie Chaplain to promote Liberty Bonds in NY. Plenty of soft hats, derbies, and caps can be seen.

1918 (alternate view from Life archives confirming the date)