I don't mind if the kitchen and living room are separated by an island, but, it is nice to have the other rooms private. Plus, lots of closets, to stuff the junk in!
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15 Old House Features that we were wrong to abandon...
- Thread starter Hemingway Jones
- Start date
I don't mind if the kitchen and living room are separated by an island, but, it is nice to have the other rooms private. Plus, lots of closets, to stuff the junk in!
Fed in a Fedora
Practically Family
- Messages
- 739
- Location
- Dixie, USA
I was raised in New Orleans and lived in a house which was built in the 1920s.
The look was classic and the colors followed the time period very well.
The arched entries into the common rooms were beautiful.
There were fan light windows over the front doors and complimentary fan light windows or similar colored windows at the peaks were wonderful accents.
We had French doors (a door on either side of the main entry door) with slatted privacy blinds outside. Our blind doors were also screened on the inside so we could get fresh air without getting mosquitoes inside.
The ceilings were 9 feet high and the windows were arranged so that air flow made the house fairly comfortable for much of the year. This came in handy following Hurricane Katrina when there was no electricity and we were in the heat.
There were bead board ceilings over the front porches which were beautiful. These were stained dark and shellacked, although I also liked the traditional pale blue of the porch ceilings of earlier constructions.
Generous porches were common - even on our old shotgun house Uptown.
The houses were generally pier and beam construction which worked very well for maintenance and leveling. When soil sagged a bit, we crawled under with house jacks and shims to level them ourselves. Was considered no big deal as we had done this for friends family and neighbors for a meal and iced tea or beer. It was a family project with levels, jacks and yelling out of instructions.
Slate roofs were a thing of beauty. I remember seeing piles of slate after Hurricane Betsy and thinking that it was a sad waste. They were replaced by asbestos shingles since these were cheap and fire resistant. They were considered a good investment...
Wrought iron fences and gates were really wrought iron rather than cheap fakes.
Just a nostalgic journey through the Big Easy.
Fed
The look was classic and the colors followed the time period very well.
The arched entries into the common rooms were beautiful.
There were fan light windows over the front doors and complimentary fan light windows or similar colored windows at the peaks were wonderful accents.
We had French doors (a door on either side of the main entry door) with slatted privacy blinds outside. Our blind doors were also screened on the inside so we could get fresh air without getting mosquitoes inside.
The ceilings were 9 feet high and the windows were arranged so that air flow made the house fairly comfortable for much of the year. This came in handy following Hurricane Katrina when there was no electricity and we were in the heat.
There were bead board ceilings over the front porches which were beautiful. These were stained dark and shellacked, although I also liked the traditional pale blue of the porch ceilings of earlier constructions.
Generous porches were common - even on our old shotgun house Uptown.
The houses were generally pier and beam construction which worked very well for maintenance and leveling. When soil sagged a bit, we crawled under with house jacks and shims to level them ourselves. Was considered no big deal as we had done this for friends family and neighbors for a meal and iced tea or beer. It was a family project with levels, jacks and yelling out of instructions.
Slate roofs were a thing of beauty. I remember seeing piles of slate after Hurricane Betsy and thinking that it was a sad waste. They were replaced by asbestos shingles since these were cheap and fire resistant. They were considered a good investment...
Wrought iron fences and gates were really wrought iron rather than cheap fakes.
Just a nostalgic journey through the Big Easy.
Fed
- Messages
- 17,215
- Location
- New York City
Have we discussed entryway vestibules?
I rented an attic apartment in a 1920s home many years ago and it had one - a small rectangular area (I'm guessing 7' long by 5' wide) that you walked into from the front door (where you could hang your wet coat and leave your boots and umbrella) and, then, there was another door to enter to get into the house proper. A lot of times, both the outside door and the door into the house were half or three-quarters glass to allow light in.
I believe vestibules existed to acts as an air-lock to keep the winter air from coming directly into the house when you entered front the outside and, as noted, also gave you a place to leave your wet things so as to not drag them into the house. It seemed an elegant feature. That said, I have no idea how common they were or if my sense of their purpose is correct - but I have seen them a lot and loved having one for the years I lived in that house.
I rented an attic apartment in a 1920s home many years ago and it had one - a small rectangular area (I'm guessing 7' long by 5' wide) that you walked into from the front door (where you could hang your wet coat and leave your boots and umbrella) and, then, there was another door to enter to get into the house proper. A lot of times, both the outside door and the door into the house were half or three-quarters glass to allow light in.
I believe vestibules existed to acts as an air-lock to keep the winter air from coming directly into the house when you entered front the outside and, as noted, also gave you a place to leave your wet things so as to not drag them into the house. It seemed an elegant feature. That said, I have no idea how common they were or if my sense of their purpose is correct - but I have seen them a lot and loved having one for the years I lived in that house.
DecoDame
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 215
I love those vestibules, Fading Fast. I still think they make a lot of practical sense. And I would add to the weather considerations that it's damned handy when you have dogs whose...er, "enthusiasm" makes answering a front door a challenge. With the vestibule you can quickly shut them out of reach of the unsuspecting guest.
Shangas
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,116
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
Al Capone had a way of dealing with problems related to enthusiasm.
[video=youtube;d-sV-O2-jCY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-sV-O2-jCY[/video]
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hatguy1
One Too Many
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- Da Pairee of da prairee
I was enjoying Bob Villa's list until it froze up on me on slide 8. Those I saw - pocket shutters, transom windows and laundry chutes looked pretty cool. I was wondering about safety as well particularly regarding laundry chutes (I could see a kid wanting to ride down one) and the open transom between rooms and hallways would allow smoke and fire to travel in the event of house/building fire.
My grandparents' house had a phone nook similar to shown. But I can also remember a different kind of phone nook - one where it was a very small phone closet actually so you could stand out of the way and talk on the phone.
And I sure echo the enthusiasm about built-in book cases and china hutches. So cool.
I'd also add masonry fireplaces, mantles and hearths to the list. I know they're still available - like pocket doors etc - but expensive to build. But man they sure do look nice.
My grandparents' house had a phone nook similar to shown. But I can also remember a different kind of phone nook - one where it was a very small phone closet actually so you could stand out of the way and talk on the phone.
And I sure echo the enthusiasm about built-in book cases and china hutches. So cool.
I'd also add masonry fireplaces, mantles and hearths to the list. I know they're still available - like pocket doors etc - but expensive to build. But man they sure do look nice.
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- Messages
- 17,215
- Location
- New York City
Having just recently bought an apartment in a 1927 apartment house, one of my great compromises was buying it even though it didn't have transoms, which many NYC apartments from that era have. At some point, you have to realize that the real world doesn't offer up the perfect apartment from 80+ years ago :frusty:, so I just had to accept the many good vintage things that are there and say it works. That said, I love transoms. The architects of that era were so much smarter about light and airflow as they didn't have the strong lighting and ventilation system of today, so they had to be thoughtful and creative about those things.
Gingerella72
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 428
- Location
- Nebraska, USA
I have vivid memories of being a 3-yr old playing at my friend's house that had a laundry chute, and we would crawl in and slide down, landing in the basement. It's a wonder we didn't break our necks or kill ourselves. I definitely see why homes stopped having that feature, at least....
- Messages
- 6,099
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- Acton, Massachusetts
I just bought a house that has built-ins. They are in the second bedroom and they're like having an armoire in the wall. Brilliant. Why would that go away?
And the crystal doorknobs.
And the crystal doorknobs.
- Messages
- 17,215
- Location
- New York City
Congratulations and couldn't agree more. If you are comfortable doing so, it would be great to see pictures. As posted on other threads, my girlfriend and I recently purchased a 1927 coop apartment which had several vintage details still intact and we are working now to restore others - those original details were well thought out and, as you implied, it is surprising that they have gone away over time.
St. Louis
Practically Family
- Messages
- 618
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- St. Louis, MO
I live in a tiny 1929 bungalow, which has all the original architectural features, not counting kitchen and bathroom fixtures. I'm slowly bringing those back to original styles, piece by piece, as I can save up & afford it. It breaks my heart to think that the 1940s tin cabinets were still in the house when the previous owners stripped them out & put in a modern kitchen. The kitchen is fine (not horrible) but evidently the materials were all the cheapest possible from the local Home "Despot," because the counter tops are already staining beyond repair and the woodwork is splintering (after ten years!)
Someone earlier mentioned those "California cabinets" -- you see them in St. Louis as well, in the older neighborhoods. I don't have one here, & frankly confess that I don't quite understand the utility of them here in these humid St. Louis summers and brutally cold winters. In my own house, my favorite feature is the attic stairs built into my living room closet. I enjoy astonishing my guests when I open the closet door and show them the "secret" staircase. I have the closet retrofitted back to the 1930s (hangers, coats, carpet sweeper, shoe polish kit etc all period correct) so the whole experience is fun.
I wanted to add that cross ventilation really works here, even in this awful climate. That is, even in 90-plus degree temperatures these old brick bungalows tend to stay pretty cool. I rarely have to turn on the A/C. And in the winter, once the house is heated up (which I'm able to accomplish from the gas logs in the living room) I don't need to turn on the furnace until December.
In fact I've stayed in Missouri log cabins built in the early to mid-19th century and have been very comfortable even in 100-plus degree weather. I've often stayed in an 1860 cabin in Illinois, which is correctly oriented to catch all the prevailing breezes. It's astonishingly cool all summer. If you ignore the spiders and can cope with a chamber pot, those old log houses are really wonderful for sleeping.
Someone earlier mentioned those "California cabinets" -- you see them in St. Louis as well, in the older neighborhoods. I don't have one here, & frankly confess that I don't quite understand the utility of them here in these humid St. Louis summers and brutally cold winters. In my own house, my favorite feature is the attic stairs built into my living room closet. I enjoy astonishing my guests when I open the closet door and show them the "secret" staircase. I have the closet retrofitted back to the 1930s (hangers, coats, carpet sweeper, shoe polish kit etc all period correct) so the whole experience is fun.
I wanted to add that cross ventilation really works here, even in this awful climate. That is, even in 90-plus degree temperatures these old brick bungalows tend to stay pretty cool. I rarely have to turn on the A/C. And in the winter, once the house is heated up (which I'm able to accomplish from the gas logs in the living room) I don't need to turn on the furnace until December.
In fact I've stayed in Missouri log cabins built in the early to mid-19th century and have been very comfortable even in 100-plus degree weather. I've often stayed in an 1860 cabin in Illinois, which is correctly oriented to catch all the prevailing breezes. It's astonishingly cool all summer. If you ignore the spiders and can cope with a chamber pot, those old log houses are really wonderful for sleeping.
- Messages
- 10,939
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- My mother's basement
Great post, St. Louis.
There are indeed very high quality kitchen and bathroom cabinets, fixtures, etc. made these days, but they cost big money. I clearly understand why bathrooms and kitchens are the most frequently remodeled spaces in older homes (the list of reasons is deserving of a thread all its own), but materials still holding up well after 70 or 80 or more years of daily use getting ripped out and replaced by stuff that starts falling apart within a year or three is practically the definition of throwing good money after bad.
You didn't quite say this, but what I infer from your post is that back before modern HVAC technology builders were more attuned to working with what the local conditions had to offer.
Out in the Seattle area, where I lived for 40-some years and where the lovely missus and I still own property, and where daylight can be a precious commodity, there is often a complete lack of thought accorded to capturing that daylight. I have seen new houses built without a single window on the south side. The houses, many of them, are built from off-the-shelf plans, and are decidedly ill-suited to their contexts.
There are indeed very high quality kitchen and bathroom cabinets, fixtures, etc. made these days, but they cost big money. I clearly understand why bathrooms and kitchens are the most frequently remodeled spaces in older homes (the list of reasons is deserving of a thread all its own), but materials still holding up well after 70 or 80 or more years of daily use getting ripped out and replaced by stuff that starts falling apart within a year or three is practically the definition of throwing good money after bad.
You didn't quite say this, but what I infer from your post is that back before modern HVAC technology builders were more attuned to working with what the local conditions had to offer.
Out in the Seattle area, where I lived for 40-some years and where the lovely missus and I still own property, and where daylight can be a precious commodity, there is often a complete lack of thought accorded to capturing that daylight. I have seen new houses built without a single window on the south side. The houses, many of them, are built from off-the-shelf plans, and are decidedly ill-suited to their contexts.
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- Messages
- 17,215
- Location
- New York City
Re above two posts. Great posts and you two are spot on, IMHO.
Truly one of the most missed "feature" is thoughtful architectural design to allow light and air flow into a dwelling. I have lived in several pre-WWII apartments, one built in 1948, and a few 1980s/90s and the difference is striking.
All of the pre-war and the 1948 apartments were incredibly thoughtful about getting light into rooms and allowing for airflow through the apartment. For light and airflow, the buildings would be built with nooks and crannies (okay, several small angles to the outside walls so as to allow for more exposure to light and cross breezes). They all had windows that - when taken as a whole - faced, usually, three different directions (north, south, east, for example) - allowing for many cross breezes.
Many had transoms that allowed for light and, when opened, breezes to move through the rooms even if the door was closed. Several had very powerful built-into-the-wall fans that created incredibly effective breezes in the apartment even when the outside air was still - mainly these were in the kitchens and bathrooms. All the apartments had large windows that opened wide (several had casement windows that literally opened out - side to side and / or up and down so that they literally scooped air going by in). And they all had windows in the kitchen and all but had windows in the bathroom (that was the 1948 one - the shadow of the future creeped in a bit).
Even though I had air-conditioning (window units) in all of these, I used them dramatically less than I would have if not for all of the above thoughtful features.
The few modern apartments I've lived in were horribly designed for light and air. All but one had windows only on one side of the building, which meant you got no cross breezes (and only got a breeze if the wind was blowing straight at your windows). Also, most - not all - had windows that didn't open all the way, or, in one, opened side to side which is the stupidest design ever as even when just "cracked a bit" open a lot of rain comes in. And the window blinds for these windows, if not also side to side, don't work as you have to open the blind all the way just to, again, crack the window or the blind is banging around if a gust of wind does make it through. And all but one had no windows in the kitchens or bathrooms. Of course there were no built in fans or transoms. It is almost as if they were designed for you to keep your windows closed, blinds down and the a/c or heat running all the time. I hated those apartments and got out of them reasonably quickly.
Truly one of the most missed "feature" is thoughtful architectural design to allow light and air flow into a dwelling. I have lived in several pre-WWII apartments, one built in 1948, and a few 1980s/90s and the difference is striking.
All of the pre-war and the 1948 apartments were incredibly thoughtful about getting light into rooms and allowing for airflow through the apartment. For light and airflow, the buildings would be built with nooks and crannies (okay, several small angles to the outside walls so as to allow for more exposure to light and cross breezes). They all had windows that - when taken as a whole - faced, usually, three different directions (north, south, east, for example) - allowing for many cross breezes.
Many had transoms that allowed for light and, when opened, breezes to move through the rooms even if the door was closed. Several had very powerful built-into-the-wall fans that created incredibly effective breezes in the apartment even when the outside air was still - mainly these were in the kitchens and bathrooms. All the apartments had large windows that opened wide (several had casement windows that literally opened out - side to side and / or up and down so that they literally scooped air going by in). And they all had windows in the kitchen and all but had windows in the bathroom (that was the 1948 one - the shadow of the future creeped in a bit).
Even though I had air-conditioning (window units) in all of these, I used them dramatically less than I would have if not for all of the above thoughtful features.
The few modern apartments I've lived in were horribly designed for light and air. All but one had windows only on one side of the building, which meant you got no cross breezes (and only got a breeze if the wind was blowing straight at your windows). Also, most - not all - had windows that didn't open all the way, or, in one, opened side to side which is the stupidest design ever as even when just "cracked a bit" open a lot of rain comes in. And the window blinds for these windows, if not also side to side, don't work as you have to open the blind all the way just to, again, crack the window or the blind is banging around if a gust of wind does make it through. And all but one had no windows in the kitchens or bathrooms. Of course there were no built in fans or transoms. It is almost as if they were designed for you to keep your windows closed, blinds down and the a/c or heat running all the time. I hated those apartments and got out of them reasonably quickly.
Reading the article from the original post, I have four of the 15 items in my 1907 house (sleeping porch, claw foot tub, picture molding, and root cellar). I can remember ver well my aunt saying numerous times, "Dad was always proud of his picture molding."
- Messages
- 17,215
- Location
- New York City
We recently purchased a 1927 coop apartment and one of the features that sold us on it is that it has picture moldings throughout. We are putting in built-in book cases on both sides of the living room fireplace and will either be moving the picture molding that is there to the front of the bookcases (hard to do) or using it elsewhere in the apartment (we will find a place for it). I have a very bad picture of some of it here - had a better picture, but can't find it right now.
I am impressed that you hit on four of the features - our apartment, despite having a lot of original 1927 details still intact, only had the picture moldings and an intercom in common with the article's list. We do have a 95% original 1927 bathroom (the last one in the 60 unit apartment house) that, other than doing some minor and careful restoration work to, we will be leaving as is.
Some of the features listed were too "modern" for my house.
The telephone nook, for example. Telephone service to Nebo wasn't available until the mid 1950s. And an intercom, well my grandmother didn't need an intercom. All she had to do was holler out "dinner is ready" and everyone came running.We have two fireplaces in my house, but neither is a true Rumford design. My grandmother used to cook in the fireplace in the dining room. It's about as deep as it is wide, and burned wood. The fireplace in the sitting room was redesigned by my grandfather in the early 1920s to accommodate burning coal. It's only about two feet wide and about eight inches deep. Perfect for throwing a lot of heat from not a lot of coal.
- Messages
- 17,215
- Location
- New York City
Being an apartment house fireplace, ours (in the 1927 apartment we just bought and the 1928 one we rent in today) is "half a Rumford" in that they are both shallow since the wall is shared and space is at a premium. The good news is that it does throw a lot of heat into the apartment which creates a very nice warm atmosphere on a cold day.
It is a crazy thing - to this kid born in a smallish town in NJ where the tallest residential building were some five or six story old apartment houses - that many of these pre-war NYC apartment buildings have fireplaces. We live on the 16th floor and it just seems crazy that we have a fireplace (as do all but a few of the apartments in our 200+ unit apartment house).
It is a crazy thing - to this kid born in a smallish town in NJ where the tallest residential building were some five or six story old apartment houses - that many of these pre-war NYC apartment buildings have fireplaces. We live on the 16th floor and it just seems crazy that we have a fireplace (as do all but a few of the apartments in our 200+ unit apartment house).
- Messages
- 17,215
- Location
- New York City
Building only started being built over six stories after the elevator was invented (and improvement in steel frames for taller buildings advanced so that the walls didn't have to get thicker at the base as the building got taller).
That said, getting reasonably price wood is not always easy - but nothing is easy or inexpensive in this city.
However, it is all worth it to have a wonderful warm and glowing fire on the sixteenth floor on a cold gray day.
That said, getting reasonably price wood is not always easy - but nothing is easy or inexpensive in this city.
However, it is all worth it to have a wonderful warm and glowing fire on the sixteenth floor on a cold gray day.
