15 Old House Features that we were wrong to abandon...

[tonyb]

I'm surprised to learn that 1.) there are fireplaces in that building, and 2.) that they are in usable condition.

I wouldn't use the fireplace in this 1950s house in greater Denver before having its condition (and that of the chimney, of course) assessed by a person who knows what he or she is doing.

And I don't know what sort of fireplace use is kosher by local ordinance. In the Seattle area, where firewood is plentiful (there's more than most people could use available free after every windstorm, provided you got a chainsaw and a pickup and the willingness to expend a little energy), burn bans go into effect when there's some sort of weather phenomenon that holds surface air in place and doesn't allow for the rapid dissipation of fireplace and woodstove exhaust. That, alas, often coincides with colder temperatures, during the winter, anyway. The only exemptions to the burn ban are for homes with wood as the only effective heat source.

 

[Fading Fast]

I'm surprised to learn that 1.) there are fireplaces in that building, and 2.) that they are in usable condition.

I wouldn't use the fireplace in this 1950s house in greater Denver before having its condition (and that of the chimney, of course) assessed by a person who knows what he or she is doing.

And I don't know what sort of fireplace use is kosher by local ordinance. In the Seattle area, where firewood is plentiful (there's more than most people could use available free after every windstorm, provided you got a chainsaw and a pickup and the willingness to expend a little energy), burn bans go into effect when there's some sort of weather phenomenon that holds surface air in place and doesn't allow for the rapid dissipation of fireplace and woodstove exhaust. That, alas, often coincides with colder temperatures, during the winter, anyway. The only exemptions to the burn ban are for homes with wood as the only effective heat source.

If you are referencing my building, they clean and service them every two years - they are in very good condition. There are - no surprise - very specific rules around the servicing of fireplaces in apartment houses.

Like you - before I knew about them - I was stunned to find out that they existed and there are, literally, many, many pre-war apartment buildings in NYC that have apartments with working fireplaces.

 

[tonyb]

If you are referencing my building, they clean and service them every two years - they are in very good condition. There are - no surprise - very specific rules around the servicing of fireplaces in apartment houses.

Like you - before I knew about them - I was stunned to find out that they existed and there are, literally, many, many pre-war apartment buildings in NYC that have apartments with working fireplaces.

I gotta wonder if the chimneys have something like Metalbestos liners. I'd surely sleep much easier on a winter's night there knowing there is an actively enforced code. And, seeing how I've heard no reports of apartment blocks in NYC going up in flames on account of defective old chimneys, it sounds like they got this pretty well worked out.

 

[Fading Fast]

I gotta wonder if the chimneys have something like Metalbestos liners. I'd surely sleep much easier on a winter's night there knowing there is an actively enforced code. And, seeing how I've heard no reports of apartment blocks in NYC going up in flames on account of defective old chimneys, it sounds like they got this pretty well worked out.

I worry much more about gas explosions than fireplace fires as, as we both said, they do seem to enforce a code around fireplace maintenance. But - as just recently happened - NYC looses a building every few years to a gas line explosion. That said, so do other communities, it is just - sometimes - a bit more dramatic in NYC because of the concentration and congestion.

I am sitting in front of our 16th floor fireplace right now, see below (with the original 1928 marble facing and wood mantle). If it wasn't almost 70 degrees - I'd have a log in there now.

 

[tonyb]

Nice floor, too. I take it it's original as well?

 

[Fading Fast]

Nice floor, too. I take it it's original as well?

Yes, and they are stunning. This is a rental (as mentioned, we recently bought an apartment in a 1927 building and are doing some restoration work - which is detailed and time consuming), so we are still living in this 1928 rental.

It is amazing how much of the original details has survived in this rental. This has been a rental building its entire life, which usually means that they would have "updated" it many times and stripped out most of the details, but thankfully, while they took out a lot, they have left a lot too. The floor is a beautiful herringbone with a wonderful two-toned wood border. Here's a quick shot of it:

 

[tonyb]

Summer before last I spent more time and money than I care to recall putting a little house we "own" (hah!) back into some semblance of taste and comfort following seven years of an in-law's "improvements." (Note to self:Never again rent to a relative.) The largest single expense was restoring the original wood floors. (The place was built in 1930-something.) But it was worth every dime. In one room we had to take up a linoleum tile floor that had been there for a good 60 years, I'd guess. But a freshly finished wood floor against freshly painted semi-gloss white walls is like a fresh-from-the-cleaners suit and a crisp white shirt.

 

[Fading Fast]

Summer before last I spent more time and money than I care to recall putting a little house we "own" (hah!) back into some semblance of taste and comfort following seven years of an in-law's "improvements." (Note to self:Never again rent to a relative.) The largest single expense was restoring the original wood floors. (The place was built in 1930-something.) But it was worth every dime. In one room we had to take up a linoleum tile floor that had been there for a good 60 years, I'd guess. But a freshly finished wood floor against freshly painted semi-gloss white walls is like a fresh-from-the-cleaners suit and a crisp white shirt.

See what I bolded of yours above - very well said.

In our new apartment, the floors are all original from 1927 (that was a huge selling point) and, according to the contractor, only need a screening and fresh coat of wax (no sanding and staining) and they'll be good to go. And yes, our trim color will be a semi-gloss white. This is a shot of the foyer floor (with the previous owners furniture and wall paper [which is coming down]):

 

[tonyb]

Nice, man. Red oak?

 

[Fading Fast]

Nice, man. Red oak?

spot on - you know your woods.

 

[Rodney]

I love old houses and have enjoyed reading this thread. Did anyone mention front porches? I know some newer houses have a token front porch but they tend to be smaller and less usable than earlier ones. Front porches went away at about the time the automobile took over as people's main form of transportation to and from the suburbs.
Two other things missing from most modern construction: Quality materials and craftsmanship. Far too many modern houses are thrown together quickly using the cheapest materials possible just so developers can make a quick buck. Things like proper placement on a site and south facing windows mean nothing compared to fitting one or two more cookie cutter houses into a sub-development. You're not going to get much of a breeze anyway with 10 ft or less between buildings. Good quality materials can still be had but at a price. Unless you're fortunate enough to afford a custom house you're not going to get them in new construction.

I'm currently living in a tract home that was built in the early 70s. It's small and poorly laid out. Also all the character that we enjoy about old houses was never included in this one. By the 70s it was hollow core doors, wall to wall carpet and skinny baseboards. It would have been better as a 2 bedroom house in the same square footage but 3 bedroom houses sell better, even then. On the plus side construction at the time required 10 ft setbacks from the property line so it has a decent sized yard and we're not right on top of our neighbors.
Getting off my soapbox now.
Rodney

 

[Stearmen]

When we talk about old homes with an abundance of windows, we should keep in mind, that for the common man, it was a flash in the pan! For century's, either glass was to expensive or scarce to use. They were even heavily taxed for century's. It was mainly in the late 18th to early 20th century that a lot of functional windows were put into homes of everyday people. This winter, I was reminded of one of the down sides to a lot of windows. Even with energy efficient, modern windows, your heat is heading straight out the window!

 

[Fading Fast]

Rodney, couldn't agree more on the porches (or quality and craftsmanship - but that is a whole separate macro issue). A big old porch is a wonderful feature - a great place to sit, enjoy the outside air and friends and family. While we didn't have one growing up (we lived in the built-in-the-1960s section of the town - ugly houses), many friends did and I spent many, many hours hanging out on them.

 

[LizzieMaine]

A lot of porches here -- my own included -- have long since been glassed in to allow three-season use. As far as I can tell this happened to my house some time in the 1950's, and all but one of the similar houses on my street have had the same treatment. An open porch in New England in the winter is difficult to maintain -- my grandparents' house had an open porch and it was a constant battle to keep the unpainted wooden floor protected. We'd swab it down every spring and fall with used motor oil from the gas station, which helped to waterproof it.

 

[St. Louis]

Some further thoughts on windows: I believe the older style window and door treatments went a long way toward conserving heat. For example, wooden blinds and double layers of curtains would have existed even in modest homes. I've studied the woodwork around my windows and have come to the conclusion that there were always at least two, more usually three layers of window coverings: blinds closest to the window, and then a curtain, or more likely, a sheer curtain and a second more opaque one. I have a lot of catalogs from the 30s and 40s, and I see that curtains and blinds were extremely popular. They appear in every catalog and don't seem to be too expensive. For example, in 1942, a pair of very fine lace curtains (64" panels, which would cover almost any window in my house) cost $1.56. That's the top of the line, and by way of comparison, costs about the same as a woman's plain cotton house dress.

I have all original windows throughout my house & have recreated the original window treatments to the best of my ability. When the storm windows, blinds, and 2 layers of curtains are closed, the heat loss isn't too bad.

 

[pawineguy]

I love old houses and have enjoyed reading this thread. Did anyone mention front porches? I know some newer houses have a token front porch but they tend to be smaller and less usable than earlier ones. Front porches went away at about the time the automobile took over as people's main form of transportation to and from the suburbs.
Two other things missing from most modern construction: Quality materials and craftsmanship. Far too many modern houses are thrown together quickly using the cheapest materials possible just so developers can make a quick buck. Things like proper placement on a site and south facing windows mean nothing compared to fitting one or two more cookie cutter houses into a sub-development. You're not going to get much of a breeze anyway with 10 ft or less between buildings. Good quality materials can still be had but at a price. Unless you're fortunate enough to afford a custom house you're not going to get them in new construction.

I'm currently living in a tract home that was built in the early 70s. It's small and poorly laid out. Also all the character that we enjoy about old houses was never included in this one. By the 70s it was hollow core doors, wall to wall carpet and skinny baseboards. It would have been better as a 2 bedroom house in the same square footage but 3 bedroom houses sell better, even then. On the plus side construction at the time required 10 ft setbacks from the property line so it has a decent sized yard and we're not right on top of our neighbors.
Getting off my soapbox now.
Rodney

In many areas of NJ and PA, the front porch is being revived in new housing developments. All the homes have a large porch, they are arranged in squares with garage entrances in the rear of all the homes, and a communal park area in the middle of all of the homes. Unfortunately, I don't see many people ever sitting out there when I am in one of those neighborhoods.

 

[tonyb]

Quite agree with all your observations, Rodney. I see you're down Centralia way. Judging from your comments, it sounds like you've seen too many of the same sorts of newer developments as I have. Just hideous, some of them. The mantra is "Squeeze more houses onto this land and to hell with other considerations, such as which direction the windows face and whether there will ever be more than an hour of direct sunlight per day falling on this postage stamp of a back yard."

As to styles ... I'd prefer these new developments were of a more modernist architectural style. All these faux-craftsman "communities" -- with names like "Quail Run" and "Whispering Pines" -- almost hurt my eyes. The phoniness goes well beyond the names, of course. Maybe they put a bay window at the front and some non-functional gable brackets up under the eaves, and on the sides and back it's T1-11 siding and no window trim at all. Seriously, I've seen more inspired architectural design in doublewide mobile homes.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Old radiators are beautiful to look at, but, especially in smaller homes, they take up valuable real estate!

I'm all for most of these suggestions: casement windows, eating nooks, window seats especially. The stuff that's useful and also keeps you from feeling like you're just living in a drywall box.

But I don't think anyone has mentioned steam heat radiators yet.

I'm sure there are many issues I'm not aware of with them (that perhaps newer technology could solve?) but they were in the first city apartment I ever had. It was a large brick apartment building downtown and had a fully functioning radiator system. Nothing (short of a nice wood fire) has ever warmed me straight through to the bone in our Ohio winters as did that radiator heat.

The radiators never got extremely hot to the touch (of course my apartment was upstairs and wasn't close to the source/boiler room) and I never noted the noise people have complained about (just pleasant "ticking") and so on, so I had a good experience... I wonder how fuel efficient a heater it is?

Double hung windows are a blessing. I put in six of them last year, they're nice if the pets like to try to bust through your screens to get out, as well. Much harder to reach the upper half lol

Double hung windows are making a big come back. The new ones are nice, no ropes to break, or heavy weights. Plus, you can pull a couple of tabs at the top and swing the window inwards for easy cleaning of the out side part of the window. Nice for air circulation also! raise the lower window for cold air, lower the top window to let out hot air, or, a combination of both. [video=youtube;-bpVvU9WJDI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bpVvU9WJDI[/video]

I have a few awning windows on my house, which I believe were put in, in the fifties. They are very nice on rainy days, as they let the cool air in, but keep the rain out.

We had those big jalousie, hand crank windows, so you opened them like blinds with each pane being parallel to each other. Which was great because you could open windows in the rain and no water came in. However, if you hit a baseball through the top one, it just keeps dropping, breaking each window along the way. And it happens in slow motion, with you watching, just knowing your dad is going to go ballistic because he told you not to hit the ball towards the house...

I'll never understand why these went away. We had them in our house in Milwaukee, and our house in Germantown, they're beautiful and classy!

I just bought a house that has built-ins. They are in the second bedroom and they're like having an armoire in the wall. Brilliant. Why would that go away?

And the crystal doorknobs.

I don't care for open floorplans, either. My house is fairly open from the living to dining rooms, only separated by a large archway, but the rest is very divided and specific, and that's the way I like it!

There are two old weight and rope windows in the one upstairs bedroom, which I insisted stay when the other windows went.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I'll never understand why these went away. We had them in our house in Milwaukee, and our house in Germantown, they're beautiful and classy!

Jalousie windows declined in popularity in conjunction with the rise in central air conditioning. They simply do not seal very well, are not air tight, and are not very "energy efficient". They are designed to create an air draft. They are also not nearly as secure as other types of windows. All of which is too bad, because I too love the look and the functionality.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Oh, I understand why those went bye-bye, but I meant built-in's.

Jalousie windows declined in popularity in conjunction with the rise in central air conditioning. They simply do not seal very well, are not air tight, and are not very "energy efficient". They are designed to create an air draft. They are also not nearly as secure as other types of windows. All of which is too bad, because I too love the look and the functionality.