Would this be a Cafe racer ???

[Edward]

As I learned on these forums a couple of years ago, the term 'cafe racer' originate as a derogatory term for those who adopted the style of 'real' bike racers without being the genuine article themselves. A 'poseur' allegation, really. I guess in that sense a reproduction race leather could be accused of the same thing, though it's really no different than wearing any sports jersey, an A2, an Indy jacket...... and on. The general cut of the cafe racer style is very neat, simple, utilitarian - the mandarin collar, simple straight front zip... much less flashy than the Brando style. Back about 2001 I bought a plain black one which I often wore to the office when I wanted a more casual jacket to throw on for the office, a Brando style being a bit, well.... It can look a bit wrong in the office environment. The cafe racer was a very versatile jacket. I only sold it last year when I hadn't worn it for some time (mostly I had switched to Harringtons and the like when not wearing a suit or blazer to the office), to help build the funds for a more vintage style jacket; the cafe racer style always brings Sixties to mind to me. I have an Aero Bootlegger in cordovan on the way; eventually I will order a black thirties Halfbelt.

 

[Yeps]

Edward: Yes, Fender does make a fine guitar, but it just can't touch the full deep sound of a Gibson. I've played in a bunch of bands, and there is no mistaking that Gibson when it kicks off on a solo.

Just to chip in on the secondary discussion running under this thread... I like the sound of Gibsons, and think they are a little more versatile than Fenders (I am mainly comparing Les Pauls and Teles here), but from a playing perspective, they don't come close. Gibson makes their necks on a slightly shorter scale, and always have, as a result, at least for me, it is very uncomfortable to play higher up on the neck. The longer scale necks on Fenders allow for both more comfortable playing, and that signature twang of a Fender, which when paired with the warmth and richness of a vintage tube amp, is a beautiful sound.

 

[Speedbird]

cafe racer ... originally derogatory???

Where on earth did you get that impression?

It may in some circles have come to imply the pseudo racer in the one piece leathers and knee sliders on the plastic race replicas of today but it certainly didn't start life like that and should never be seen as such by an informed audience such as here. 'Cafe Racers' are a sub species of our vintage heritage.

'Cafe Racer' owes it's terminolgy to the heyday of the British biker and rocker scene... the mods and rockers of Quadrophenia and all that. It was born post war in the late 50's ( see '59 club) and the early 60's. The 'ton up' boys or club is another spin off term originating from the very beginning of British biker when the bikers would hammer up the burgeoning and brand new arterial road system in the search of the magic 100 mph - the 'ton-up'. They would meet at cafes and race to the the next one, or down to the coast - see the Margate runs. A sub-genre born at the Ace Cafe for a good time was the 'drop a coin' or 'record-racing' - racing to a known point (Hangar Lane intersection commonly) and back before the juke box finished playing the selected song. No mean feat given most rock 'n' roll records are short and to the point.

They stripped their bikes to reduce weight, dropped the bars for an aerodynamic position and created a recognisable new form in the bike - the street or cafe racer. The leathers they were wearing were as often as not surplus flight jackets or the very desirable Lewis Leathers. They were often painted too. Jeans, boots, sea boot socks, white scarves completed the look - classic biker iconography. It is the look interpreted by the Japanese bosozuko movement. It is still seen in the rocker revival and classic British Biker movement.

The more modern 'Fast and Furious' interpretation is still seen at every bike night at the Ace Cafe today. Silly and dangerous but utterly irresistable and compelling.

 

[ukali1066]

Many thanks again guys...once again I'm humbled and indebted by the knowledge that abounds in the lounge...

And Peacoat....you look very young for your age....those combat flights musn't have had any lasting effects

 

[Edward]

Where on earth did you get that impression?

It may in some circles have come to imply the pseudo racer in the one piece leathers and knee sliders on the plastic race replicas of today but it certainly didn't start life like that and should never be seen as such by an informed audience such as here. 'Cafe Racers' are a sub species of our vintage heritage.

Oh, very much aware of that whole Ace culture etc, but the whole jukebox racing and all that was hardly considered respectable, nor allowed to gain a certain sort of romanticised appeal as it has at this historical distance. Seems to me that in application to that sort, it carried the same tone as "you jazzed up hooligans" in reference to the Brando-vehicle, cinematic recreation of Hollister in '47...

 

[Seb Lucas]

Interesting stuff, fellows. As someone who isn't into bikes at all, I had always wondered about the term but never looked into it.

 

[Speedbird]

respectability is not in question ..

it wasn't respectable behaviour ... no more so than it is now ... but was it romanticised in it's own time? ...yes, very much so, then, now, and all points in between. It was only frowned upon by the old and the straights and probably the BBC. The legend of Carnaby St was born from the mods and rockers ... so was I come to that - my dad was an Ace Cafe rocker and my mom a Mod .... go figure .... no wonder I am confused. Ben Sherman, Fred Perry, Lonsdale, Harrington all owe their cult to this period. So does northern soul, not to mention rock-a-billy and all manner of other things. The King's Road cult, Malcom Mclaren and Vivienne Westwood would not have arisen except from this explosion. Wild One was at first banned in England ... but it resonated far and wide and arguably created the archetypal biker jacket ... the Schott Perfecto - but the Perfecto wasn't the real deal in truth - bikers were more likely wearing B-3's and Irvin.

Record racing a good thing? Not respectable, for sure. Street Drifting a good thing? not really. Is it a cult? - yes. Racing in the streets - respectable? no but iconic americana nonetheless. Is it still popular culture - yes. The M-25 was raced when it was first opened and current street racing bears a strong resemblance to Japanese and Hollywood interpretations which are now back on these shores.

Edward, I see what you are saying but you say it wasn't allowed to be romanticised. Of course it was, the whole working class hero dropping a weeks wage on a sharp suit, hopping on his Lambretta and riding to Margate or Brighton or an oily biker spending his cash on a bike mod for his vincent or triumph was all about every adolescent romanticising this contemporary movement.

 

[Peacoat]

Many thanks again guys...once again I'm humbled and indebted by the knowledge that abounds in the lounge...

And Peacoat....you look very young for your age....those combat flights musn't have had any lasting effects

Thank you. When people don't think flying in VN is consistent with my stated age, I tell them I was the youngest pilot to ever have flown combat missions. They then count backwards and determine that indeed I was young, only 10 years old!

Actually I attribute my lingering youth to those many late night sessions in blues bars with Gibson guitars behind me. Yes, they are harder to play, but what a full bodied tone, unlike the somewhat tinny sound presented by the west coast Fender crowd.

Occasionally I would let a Les Paul or a 345 plug into my 1956 Fender 4x10 Bassman (amplifier). What a sound. When he would come in on the solo behind me, I would lose days on the age; thus the youthful appearance.

 

[Smithy]

fftopic:

Another Fender fan here. I had a Jaguar back in the very early '90s when I was playing in this (admittedly not very good) My Bloody Valentine/Curve inspired band at uni. Had a Ricky 625 and a Gibson 355 copy as well at that time. Sold them all when the band dissolved and I had the realisation that I really wasn't terribly good!

If I ever got back into playing electrics, I'd love a 12 string 330 Ricky but I'm happy with just a beaten up old acoustic now.

 

[Peacoat]

This is a debate that has raged for decades and will continue to be debated until we have all gone green and no longer use electricity. One of my best buddies of over 40 years is a staunch Fender fan. He has both, but prefers the tinny sound, and the ease of play, of the Fender.

The way I like to explain it to people who don't know the difference, is if one likes the sound of the guitars in the Beach Boys, then one should be a Fender fan. On the other hand, if the big thick warm tone of BB King gets to you, then it is Gibson all the way. There is no middle ground.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

It is certainly the type of jacket that came to be associated with the "Cafe Racer" subculture, a group so-named for the Cafe Racer bikes they rode for racing. This as opposed to the hogs of the Rockers, the subculture from which the Cafe Racers are an offshoot (at least in Europe). They would be more associated with the "Brando" jackets - i.e. HD Cyclechamp and copies-of. lewis did a really nice copy which seems to have been the norm for Rockers in Britain.

This from Cafe Racer Culture, an excellent blog. (I don't link here because there are quite often naked women on his blog entries.)

bk

 

[Edward]

Edward, I see what you are saying but you say it wasn't allowed to be romanticised. Of course it was, the whole working class hero dropping a weeks wage on a sharp suit, hopping on his Lambretta and riding to Margate or Brighton or an oily biker spending his cash on a bike mod for his vincent or triumph was all about every adolescent romanticising this contemporary movement.

Possibly my post above reads as a little too dogmatic... I'm sure they were romanticised to some degree ta the time, but I do believe there's been a lot of historical revisionism since then also...

It is certainly the type of jacket that came to be associated with the "Cafe Racer" subculture, a group so-named for the Cafe Racer bikes they rode for racing. This as opposed to the hogs of the Rockers, the subculture from which the Cafe Racers are an offshoot (at least in Europe). They would be more associated with the "Brando" jackets - i.e. HD Cyclechamp and copies-of. lewis did a really nice copy which seems to have been the norm for Rockers in Britain.

Something i'm curious about is just exactly how available jackets like Lewis were to the average rocker or leather boy back in the day. My understanding is - as speedbird has put it already - that many /most were wearing old surplus Irvins and the likes (yikes, no matter how wwarm a sheepskin would keep me on the back of a bike, I'd hate to take a spill wearing one)... I have also been told by folks steeped in bike culture that many of the jackets worn back then might have had the look of a Schott or a Lewis, but were ultimately much cheaper, inferior products. The mod subculture certainly was known for the kids spending above and beyon their means on a suit, most commonly buying it on tick; the Teds did the same before them. Was this the case for the rockers, though (a movement which kinda sorta grew out from the Ted thang)? The old photos of the Ace seem often to suggest that Perfecto and Lewis styles dominate (and, before Lewis changed hands in recent years, the Ace Cafe had a very long running relationship with Lewis - this prior to the Aero Ace Cafe jackets of the last couple of years), but of course a photo doesn't always show whether they were the real thing or cheaper copies... Wasn't the Mascot brand in effect a more affordable take on the Lewis line?

That said, I'm assuming here that Lewis and the likes were always a luxury product, ith a pricetag to match?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I have no idea whether Lewis Leathers were generally available. But they certainly were heavily marketed, so maybe they were just a thing to aspire to; like a Carnaby Street suit for the scooter crowd. I have no evidence to back up either idea, but if one was reading motorcycling magazines in the day, Lewis were prominent, as were Mascot. The same thing were happening in Canada, as Himel can attest, Brimaco and others were prominent.

I agree there were certainly many copies out there, but i don't think they were necessarily inferior. Mascot made very sturdy jackets: that's why there are so many good examples in the vintage shops!

bk

 

[Edward]

I have no idea whether Lewis Leathers were generally available. But they certainly were heavily marketed, so maybe they were just a thing to aspire to; like a Carnaby Street suit for the scooter crowd. I have no evidence to back up either idea, but if one was reading motorcycling magazines in the day, Lewis were prominent, as were Mascot. The same thing were happening in Canada, as Himel can attest, Brimaco and others were prominent.

I agree there were certainly many copies out there, but i don't think they were necessarily inferior. Mascot made very sturdy jackets: that's why there are so many good examples in the vintage shops!

bk

Oh, no, Mascot certainly were'nt one of the inferior type, I could have been clearer there. The impression I have is that they were more affordable than the Lewis, which were certainly heavily promoted. Of course, that could be a retrospective impression, created by the fact that vintage Lewis jackets tend to command far higher prices than do Mascot now, in my experience (with Mascot prices themselves slowly increasing as they become more popular as Lewis examples get more expensive...).

 

[ukali1066]

Some nice old pics on that site Kurtz.... asides from half naked tattooed chicks flipping me the bird !

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Half naked tattooed chicks is a bad thing now????? lol Can't keep them Italians down.

bk

 

[jon z]

My Uncle the Rocker

Back in the day my Uncle was a Rocker. He rode a Norton Dominator & the jacket he wore was a surplus Irving. Whether he was typical of the Rocker fashion of the day I don't know.

 

[Speedbird]

Possibly my post above reads as a little too dogmatic... I'm sure they were romanticised to some degree ta the time, but I do believe there's been a lot of historical revisionism since then also...
....Something i'm curious about is just exactly how available jackets like Lewis were to the average rocker or leather boy back in the day. My understanding is - as speedbird has put it already - that many /most were wearing old surplus Irvins and the likes ....I have also been told by folks steeped in bike culture that many of the jackets worn back then might have had the look of a Schott or a Lewis, but were ultimately much cheaper, inferior products. ...That said, I'm assuming here that Lewis and the likes were always a luxury product, ith a pricetag to match?

Don't worry about a bit of dogma ... I think we were both posting past the witching hour with a fair bit of dogma going on!

My take on the Lewis thing is, as I said above, is that the Lewis was very desired - but that must mean it wasn't as common as some others. The surplus flight gear was widespread but also so were 'perfecto' types. I also have the feeling that some of these teenagers back then were quite cash rich, so whilst the Lewis was not easy, it might have been reasonably attainable. My impression is they had far fewer demands on their cash resource compared to today. Others may have an opinion on this though.

I think the stripped down, slimline look as seen in Baron's blog link is a case of form following function and became the established identity of the Cafe Racer ten years or so after its birth. It was probably influenced by lots of ideas, even some Mod-ish ones but I think that it is quite likely that somewhere down the line it occurred to the speed fanatics that their chunky, clunky lancer and flight type jackets were heavy and causing drag. So the racers pared down their clothes as well as their bikes. I think this later version is what is now best known as the 'Cafe Racer' look with added colour more recently. I do maintain this is not where it started though!

Here's a link for an American who is/was trying to create his own take on the subject:

http://www.cafebiker.com/caferacer.php

I think he has the essence but maybe some revisionist theory here as well. Probably inevitable in all eras/subjects popular in the Lounge.

For the Golden Era interwar buffs, I do love the wonderfully named 'Promenade Percy's' - that sounds a real hoot and a wonderful thing to learn more about! lol lol lol

 

[Edward]

I think you're probably right re the Lewis thing....

Which came first, the cafe racer jacket, or the leather racing suit? It's pretty clear the modern racer-style leathers with the Red Bull etc logos are a jacket approximating the top half of the one-piece suit... Did the original cafe racer style jackets evolve the same way?

 

[Speedbird]

This is pretty interesting .. whilst it is true that one piece flying suits existed pre War and WW2, this type I think could be best described as 'romper' or 'teddy bear' suits - big, sheepskin things for warmth at altitude. No real style, cool or function on a bike.

Golden Era racing drivers often wore overalls, not dissimiliar to flight suits or tanker overalls. Widely seen at Brooklands for example.

However, the one piece aerodynamic race leathers I think began to gain momentum in the '70's but these were muted by comparison to the brightly coloured, branded sponsor logo'ed race suits of the '80's - a result of marketing and sponsorship money flooding into GP racing. Late '80's GP500 racing was a great spectacle.

The current Red Bull type race repro explosion is a case of clever brand marketing and owes much to the success of pin-up racers like Valentino Rossi (think Beckham of bikes).

Two piece race leathers were the norm at first; they became one piece to improve function on the race track and then became chopped off at the waist for the high street. Of course, one piece race rep leathers are still the norm for the super ninja sports bike enthusiasts!