Will we ever see a return to more formal clothes?

[Tomasso]

Yeah, I was looking at buggy whips just the other day.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Edward, I have seen firms with no dress code, one of them is the one of the largest corporations in the world. Its as casual as you can get and I've been in meetings with fairly high level people and it was all jeans with some wearing t-shirts. I have no problem with it and its makes traveling a hec of alot easier packing casual clothes compared to suits. Of course for non business functions you can do whatever you want, but we will never see a return to more formal wear in business, especially wearing ties. After being business casual for the past ten years, wearing a tie now seems incredibly bizarre, but I guess I've had my fill of it having to wear a tie everyday from first grade onward, hated it from day one. The majority of people will naturally choose casual over formal, especially if you work in an
office everyday and that pretty much sums it up now that people have a choice.

I agree with this and all your earlier posts. It's okay to love vintage, as I do. But if you prefer to wear a suit and tie, it does not make your choice of clothing more ethically sound or better than the next guy's. Vintage is broader than this and I would never chose to wear a suit under any circumstances.

 

[Lokar]

I don't think anybody's claiming it's better, just that it's perhaps more appropriate in certain situations. In the same way you wouldn't wear speedos to a wedding, nor black tie to the beach, there's a time and place for all clothing. Some of us feel suit & tie are appropriate at work, others feel business casual (or even just casual) is. The latter are, at least at the moment, in luck. A man can still wish, though.

 

[Bugsy]

I don't think anybody's claiming it's better, just that it's perhaps more appropriate in certain situations. In the same way you wouldn't wear speedos to a wedding, nor black tie to the beach, there's a time and place for all clothing. Some of us feel suit & tie are appropriate at work, others feel business casual (or even just casual) is. The latter are, at least at the moment, in luck. A man can still wish, though.

What you say is quite true, but unfortunately I've seen some men wearing tank tops, shorts, and flip flops to weddings, funerals and the opera. I know, I know; it's wrong on so many levels that it boggles the mind.

 

[Pompidou]

I don't think anybody's claiming it's better, just that it's perhaps more appropriate in certain situations. In the same way you wouldn't wear speedos to a wedding, nor black tie to the beach, there's a time and place for all clothing. Some of us feel suit & tie are appropriate at work, others feel business casual (or even just casual) is. The latter are, at least at the moment, in luck. A man can still wish, though.

Most dress codes I've encountered, relevant to this topic (IE: not gyms and such) deal solely with the lower limits of outfits. I always assumed when an office was business casual, that meant no less than business casual. Are there really many offices that prohibit the wearing of more? If so, that's no good at all. I'm all about people having choice to wear anything they like, and that goes both ways, not just downward. I'm as against forcing suits as I am against forcing casual. On the other hand, if most offices that say business casual don't prohibit ties and jackets, then I see nothing to wish for. The suit man can wear what he likes in such an office. If the problem is that he wants to force all his coworkers to wear suits too, then I'm against that. I think the best way to know what people are like is by how they are when they aren't being told what do do.

 

[Tiller]

Yeah, I was looking at buggy whips just the other day.

We have a few Amish families around here, and I know they sell buggy whips at their general store if your interested .

Fortunately, this was not true of powdered wigs and colonial breeches.

Well I know the Judges in the UK have kept the wig industry going for some time, and if you need some riding breeches their are many places to buy them .

 

[Mr Vim]

Tiller,
dig the avatar, I miss Courage.

You know I have to say that I think there is a resurgence in dressing more... well formal just is not the word for it... respectfully, I would say.
And really it all boils down to this situation: You're in some public placed, and you are dressed nicely. Maybe you're wearing a suit and tie, or a sportcoat combo, maybe you're just in a dress shirt and slacks, you most certainly have some sort of hat with you if you're on this forum but what really happens is the guy next to you is thinking "This guy is dressed nicer than me." And that sties him, as the day is long.

I have had that look, a lot here in Juneau and elsewhere I have traveled... I verify it because most times those folk will approach me at some point in the evening and ask about my attire, usually the hat, then everything else. The more of us that are out there dressing like the swells we are, then the more people will start trying to dress more... respectfully.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Mr. Vim, you make it sound the way I see it. I'm fairly casual for the most part, as far as the lounge goes. Fedora, plaid jacket, collared shirt, and nice slacks, usually with dress shoes or nice cowboy boots. You see people giving you that 'that guy's got me outdressed' look. I always hope it causes some sorta chain reaction.

 

[AntonAAK]

Most dress codes I've encountered, relevant to this topic (IE: not gyms and such) deal solely with the lower limits of outfits. I always assumed when an office was business casual, that meant no less than business casual. Are there really many offices that prohibit the wearing of more? If so, that's no good at all. I'm all about people having choice to wear anything they like, and that goes both ways, not just downward. I'm as against forcing suits as I am against forcing casual. On the other hand, if most offices that say business casual don't prohibit ties and jackets, then I see nothing to wish for. The suit man can wear what he likes in such an office. If the problem is that he wants to force all his coworkers to wear suits too, then I'm against that. I think the best way to know what people are like is by how they are when they aren't being told what do do.

I agree with this entirely. There is a business casual dress code in my office and I am the only person who chooses to wear a suit every day. That suits me fine (no pun intended). I can dress how I please and I certainly wouldn't want to force my colleagues to dress more smartly. But I kind of wish they would want to. They don't dress to please my aesthetic sensibilites however, nor should they.

Unfortunately, although I've not worked in one myself, there are office environments where business casual is a maximum as well as minimum and suits and ties are actively discouraged or banned. I'm sure I've read about people having ties cut off on this board!

 

[Lokar]

What you say is quite true, but unfortunately I've seen some men wearing tank tops, shorts, and flip flops to weddings, funerals and the opera. I know, I know; it's wrong on so many levels that it boggles the mind.

I intentionally took speedos as I think that is (at least so far) not done. With time, maybe.

Most dress codes I've encountered, relevant to this topic (IE: not gyms and such) deal solely with the lower limits of outfits. I always assumed when an office was business casual, that meant no less than business casual. Are there really many offices that prohibit the wearing of more? If so, that's no good at all. I'm all about people having choice to wear anything they like, and that goes both ways, not just downward. I'm as against forcing suits as I am against forcing casual. On the other hand, if most offices that say business casual don't prohibit ties and jackets, then I see nothing to wish for. The suit man can wear what he likes in such an office. If the problem is that he wants to force all his coworkers to wear suits too, then I'm against that. I think the best way to know what people are like is by how they are when they aren't being told what do do.

As AntonAAK said, there are some places that won't let you. There are some places that I can understand justifying it (if you were to wear a tie at an Apple store, you'd not be "hip" and like Steve Jobs and wouldn't fit in), but there are offices (at least in my region) where wearing more than the lowest limit of business casual (e.g. having a tie or suit) would get you at the least odd looks and chuckles behind your back, and at the worst having the tie forcibly removed (or possibly even worse, missing out on promotions purely because of something wrapped around your neck)).

It's sad, but true. As you say though, not all companies do that, which is some consolation.

 

[John in Covina]

In my opinion The owner of a company is the one to set the rules as to dress code and the type of business as well as the position shapes the dress code too. When you work for a company, your position is to support what they do and serve the company as a conscientious worker. If a company wants a t-shirt and jeans environment that is their decision, although a good company will allow discussions as to how dress affects say sales and see if there are possible improvements that can be made. Also a company may allow some leeway is certain areas of the work staff.

How one dresses affects the perception of others and affects ones perception of themselves. As individuals we may seek different types of acceptance and to be thought if as a member of a specific group and in a way they can be seen as donning a uniform to express their membership. This is why we see people identifying themselves by mode of dress to express music preferences, political preferences, to be part of an organization and to even be attractive to their potential partners (as a gender and orientation neutral term.)

For many their desire to dress a certain way is an over riding concern for others not as much.

The thing is that people have to see some type of value or something to motivate them to dress up and it may be a while before that happens.

 

[TheSwingingBee]

I know growing up and working in Orange County, CA there has always been a very laid back vibe. I work in real estate and in our office the norm runs the gambit from yoga pants and tank tops to suits. I think that the most important thing is feeling comfortable and confidant in what you're wearing. I know, personally, if I show up to a client meeting in jeans and a t-shirt, I'm not going to feel my best and people aren't going to have the same opinion of me that they might if I showed up in a dress and heels. I know personally I'm not seeing a return to more formal attire on a daily basis, but I wonder what the breaking point will be? I mean is there ever going to be a day where wall street brokers show up in jeans and t-shirts? I sure hope not, I really prefer dressing my best to match the occasion.

 

[Derek WC]

The Fedora, too, is going to become extinct like Spats.

Who says spats are extinct? I wear 'em.

 

[Pompidou]

There are very few jobs where I would discriminate based on the attire of the service provider. Those are the ones where the realities of everybody else in the world who don't see things like I do are what's important. I wouldn't hire a lawyer who didn't wear a suit, for example, because no matter what my views are, it's the views of a judge and jury that matter. I know when I'm not important. For everything that doesn't rely on influencing public perception in a way only a particular attire can, I dismiss it. For example, I wouldn't dismiss a stock broker by his/her attire. Perhaps I'd give some extra attention to the eccentric one that managed to last a long time for seeing what the others don't. Media glamorizes the eccentric underdog that wins by blazing his/her own trail.

 

[Derek WC]

Pompidou - Would you hire a lawyer that didn't wear a suit if he was as good as Perry Mason?

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I think in a field such as real-estate, it is important to dress somewhat formally. My family is in land-development and we have a lot of clients in and out with various Realtors and it seems that if they show up dressed overly casually, the clients don't take them seriously.

I know growing up and working in Orange County, CA there has always been a very laid back vibe. I work in real estate and in our office the norm runs the gambit from yoga pants and tank tops to suits. I think that the most important thing is feeling comfortable and confidant in what you're wearing. I know, personally, if I show up to a client meeting in jeans and a t-shirt, I'm not going to feel my best and people aren't going to have the same opinion of me that they might if I showed up in a dress and heels. I know personally I'm not seeing a return to more formal attire on a daily basis, but I wonder what the breaking point will be? I mean is there ever going to be a day where wall street brokers show up in jeans and t-shirts? I sure hope not, I really prefer dressing my best to match the occasion.

 

[Pompidou]

Pompidou - Would you hire a lawyer that didn't wear a suit if he was as good as Perry Mason?

If he were a lawyer of Johnny Cochrane level whose name preceded him as a guy that wins no matter how impossible it might seem - and most TV lawyers, Perry Mason included, fit that description - than sure. It's never the attire I'm demanding - just the results. I like to think I'm pretty pragmatic, overall, demanding only that the service provider have the tools to get the job done. I wouldn't even expect a lawyer to meet me in a suit. I'd just expect him to have one in case the jury was the sort that would be swayed by wearing one. If the jury were a dozen of my peers (taken more literally than usual), I doubt it'd matter.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I just wish that the casually dressed (I include myself in that one) would at least wear clothing that fits properly, is pressed and clean (I do that).

It seems that our society has become all irony and no ironing!

 

[pasnthru]

I just came from a job interview this morning. I wore my olive pin stripe suit with brown spectators, white shirt, red tie and a white pocket square. This was an interview for an office position. The HR lady actually smirked at me and told me that if hired she hoped I would at least consider wearing jeans and a t shirt. I kind of just looked at her, and she said "C'mon, wouldn't you like to wear flip flops to work?" I kind of smiled and laughed a bit, but my head was screaming, "No Dear Jesus! Let's maintain some sort of professionalism here!!"

 

[rue]

"she said "C'mon, wouldn't you like to wear flip flops to work?" I kind of smiled and laughed a bit, but my head was screaming, "No Dear Jesus! Let's maintain some sort of professionalism here!!"
:rofl:

The world has gone to hell in a handbasket shakeshead