Edward
Bartender
- Messages
- 25,074
- Location
- London, UK
I've been very lucky on that score, actually. Maybe it's because I only teach postgraduates and final year undergrads who have matured a bit; I'm sure some first years probably do go dolally, especially as here in the UK it is still the case that most of them will have worn a uniform until leaving school, so it will be a novelty to them to wear their "own" clothes to a class. I have however never had a student show up looking like they've just fallen out of bed - even at a 9am class on a Friday.
I'm sure, however, their are limits, albeit unspoken. I mean, they wouldn't permit someone to show up in a "Jesus was a ****" T shirt, I presume.
In purely utilitarian terms, sure, a tie is superfluous, but its going out of fashion doesn't mean it will disappear forever. Hells, if 'utilitarian' was all that mattered, we'd all be wearing multipocketed jumpsuits at all times nowadays, and the cut / colour / features would never change. Even in the business world, fashions change, things come and go, so I wouldn't rule out the tie on that basis. If it does increasingly become less common, however, it will be interesting to see what that does to shirts. Shirt collars have a symbiotic relationship with ties; for many years we have seen here n the UK the absolute ubiquity of the spread collar. In the high street it has been all but impossible for nigh on a decade at least to buy a shirt with a double cuff that has any other kind of collar. At the same time, ties have become very think and very long, resulting in the sort of huge knots that fill up the space between the wings of a spread collar (think David Beckham or other identikit premiership soccer player and his tie knots the size of his own head). If the tie changes significant or goes altogether, I would imagine some significant alterations in the typical shirt collar will appear. Maybe a spearpoint with the blades tight together if no tie is to be worn, or a return to the loop collar, cut to be worn flat and without a tie. Maybe even the grandad shirt would become the norm?
Sounds a lot like the old notion of GIs coming back from the war and not wanting to wear hats. I've seen this before - and folks who go the other way. It takes it to be stupid hot in the Summer before I eschew a jacket; my feeling more comfortable with a jacket on I put down largely to having worn a blazer so long at school - the familiar, and also the utilitarian (keeps the sun off, nothing worse than a tan; pockets!).
You're probably right that the majority will choose casual if it is left up to them. It probably always was the case in many respects - the difference being that nowadays the bar is set so low for "casual". I wouldn't be so sure that it won't change in the business world, though. Fashions do change with differing generations. The Boomers rebelled against "the suits", and in turn to many of us in Generation X (and moreso those that followed), Steve Jobs doesn't look "cool" at all in his jeans and poloneck, but just like a sad, middle-aged man (albeit a very rich, sad, middle-aged man) who thinks he looks cool. Fair play to him, he is now rich and successful enough that he can dress as he wants, but don't anybody expect me to be any more impressed with the smug, iLifestyle and increasingly lesser products he peddles because he's "cool" and wears jeans, not a stuffy suit. [huh]
In the business world, I think things may well change in short order. Not necessarily in the (so often, rather self-consciously) casual IT industry, but in the corporate sectors. Casual Friday was rapidly abandoned by the corporate business sector here in London at the end of the nineties. Given the financial situation here with everyone hoping to hold on to their jobs through the next few years of economic problems, I see people everywhere upping their game. It may not be what they personally prefer, however, it is the case that in all types of business you are judged by how you dress, and in most that still means a traditional collar / tie / suit. I really don't think it's going to go anywhere fast. I'd find it hilarious if there was a backlash in the IT community against the uber-casual uniform that has been de rigeur there for so long, though I don't imagine it will happen under this generation of management. Still, all it takes is for one of the giants to go that way, and they'll all fairly quickly follow suit (well, apart from Apple, ha...).
I'm sure, however, their are limits, albeit unspoken. I mean, they wouldn't permit someone to show up in a "Jesus was a ****" T shirt, I presume.
In purely utilitarian terms, sure, a tie is superfluous, but its going out of fashion doesn't mean it will disappear forever. Hells, if 'utilitarian' was all that mattered, we'd all be wearing multipocketed jumpsuits at all times nowadays, and the cut / colour / features would never change. Even in the business world, fashions change, things come and go, so I wouldn't rule out the tie on that basis. If it does increasingly become less common, however, it will be interesting to see what that does to shirts. Shirt collars have a symbiotic relationship with ties; for many years we have seen here n the UK the absolute ubiquity of the spread collar. In the high street it has been all but impossible for nigh on a decade at least to buy a shirt with a double cuff that has any other kind of collar. At the same time, ties have become very think and very long, resulting in the sort of huge knots that fill up the space between the wings of a spread collar (think David Beckham or other identikit premiership soccer player and his tie knots the size of his own head). If the tie changes significant or goes altogether, I would imagine some significant alterations in the typical shirt collar will appear. Maybe a spearpoint with the blades tight together if no tie is to be worn, or a return to the loop collar, cut to be worn flat and without a tie. Maybe even the grandad shirt would become the norm?
Sounds a lot like the old notion of GIs coming back from the war and not wanting to wear hats. I've seen this before - and folks who go the other way. It takes it to be stupid hot in the Summer before I eschew a jacket; my feeling more comfortable with a jacket on I put down largely to having worn a blazer so long at school - the familiar, and also the utilitarian (keeps the sun off, nothing worse than a tan; pockets!).
You're probably right that the majority will choose casual if it is left up to them. It probably always was the case in many respects - the difference being that nowadays the bar is set so low for "casual". I wouldn't be so sure that it won't change in the business world, though. Fashions do change with differing generations. The Boomers rebelled against "the suits", and in turn to many of us in Generation X (and moreso those that followed), Steve Jobs doesn't look "cool" at all in his jeans and poloneck, but just like a sad, middle-aged man (albeit a very rich, sad, middle-aged man) who thinks he looks cool. Fair play to him, he is now rich and successful enough that he can dress as he wants, but don't anybody expect me to be any more impressed with the smug, iLifestyle and increasingly lesser products he peddles because he's "cool" and wears jeans, not a stuffy suit. [huh]
In the business world, I think things may well change in short order. Not necessarily in the (so often, rather self-consciously) casual IT industry, but in the corporate sectors. Casual Friday was rapidly abandoned by the corporate business sector here in London at the end of the nineties. Given the financial situation here with everyone hoping to hold on to their jobs through the next few years of economic problems, I see people everywhere upping their game. It may not be what they personally prefer, however, it is the case that in all types of business you are judged by how you dress, and in most that still means a traditional collar / tie / suit. I really don't think it's going to go anywhere fast. I'd find it hilarious if there was a backlash in the IT community against the uber-casual uniform that has been de rigeur there for so long, though I don't imagine it will happen under this generation of management. Still, all it takes is for one of the giants to go that way, and they'll all fairly quickly follow suit (well, apart from Apple, ha...).
