Will we ever see a return to more formal clothes?

[HDRnR]

Although I can see the validity of your first statement if we are talking about extremely hot weather and no air conditioning, friend, do you really believe that wearing a suit and tie while sitting at a desk all day is always "just plain stupid," or do you think that there are perhaps exceptions? And as far as somebody forcing another person to wear a suit and tie, I tend to think that there are other social/fashion conventions that people voluntarily adhere to, the sanity of which is more questionable...

It just serves no purpose, I hate wearing ties also (something that really serves no purpose). I work in NYC, the summers are too hot and humid and in the winters you just can't dress warmly enough if you have to wear a suit jacket. When it rains, the rain comes down sideways so your pants below the knees get ruined (umbrellas are useless). I sit in front of seven computer monitors for ten hours or more a day so I'd rather be comfortable than fashionable. When I have to see a customer they all dress casual and you always dress to the level of the customer. So there really is no point anymore. Business casual is the best thing thats ever happened !!! If I ever retire the remaining suits are going into a bonfire along with my alarm clock !!!

 

[Derek WC]

Actually, suits and ties do serve a purpose. Vintage suits are normally made of heavy wool, and sometimes flannel, and are very very warm, ties can be made of flannel or knitted of wool, rain does not ruin clothes, and suits that are made well are very comfortable.

 

[HDRnR]

Actually, suits and ties do serve a purpose. Vintage suits are normally made of heavy wool, and sometimes flannel, and are very very warm, ties can be made of flannel or knitted of wool, rain does not ruin clothes, and suits that are made well are very comfortable.

Sure but the last thing I want to do is wear wool clothing in a hot office for ten hours a day. For certain events I'm sure a suit and tie serve a purpose but in an office for so many hours a day seeing the same people every day, no one really cares. It's all about making money. If you are a huge producer you could wear a Borat male thong and management would'nt care. There are some people that do wear a suit and tie in an environment that doesn't require it and it becomes obvious to everyone that they are trying to draw attention to themselves. There is a difference between romanticism and practicality. I wore a suit and tie every day for fifteen years, it gets old real fast, when they finally went to business casual it made alot of people real happy and didn't cost a dime. Of course nothing is stopping anyone from wearing a suit and tie if they want to but I personally despise the whole concept unless it is an occasion that requires it.
Also it is entirely asymetrical between men and woman as woman in an office environment have never worn the equivalent to a suit. It was briefly popular in the 80's but did not last. Woman always dressed more casual than men in the office which is one reason why I think it all moved to casual. If I'm required to wear a suit and tie to work everyday then the women better be required to wear the equivalent everyday.

 

[John in Covina]

I find that most places I work at the Air Conditioning is set at the same temperature as the crisper area in my refrigerator so I always have to dress warm summer or winter.

 

[WineGuy]

I think I can bring a different perspective to the debate. I've been obese my entire life(minus a stint in the army), morbidly obese for the last decade and as a result I've never been able to enjoy clothing. I was known by all my friends and family for my black size 44/46 jeans and XXL button down shirts...that's all I could ever find that fit comfortably and looking back at pictures of my self I was a complete slob, yet I always fantasized about being able to pick and choose fine clothing and actually looking good in them.

A little over two years ago I had a weight loss procedure and I dropped 75 pounds and went from a 44 to a 34 waist, an XXL shirt to a medium shirt and a 54 jacket to a 44 jacket. The ability to finally shop for nice clothing in EVERY store, even the GAP, is a luxury that most people take for granted. I've compared the experience to being like someone who was blind all their life and suddenly given sight. Over the last year I had to throw out or donate every piece of clothing other than socks due to my size change.

But to the point, I found myself having to learn sartorially what every normal sized man knew from childhood...how to tie a tie, types of suits, terminology for clothing...and most daunting...actually have to pick clothing that worked well together. I discovered that I was a repressed narcissist...can't pass a mirror now without grinning. But more importantly...I love dressing up, I love ironing my shirts, I love polishing my shoes and I love picking my wardrobe for the day every morning. My wife and daughter tease me that I've become a fashionista monster and that I've taken it to an extreme but I disagree. Two years ago I discovered the Fedora Lounge as my wardrobe options started to materialize and the FL had a dramatic impact on me and my life...I first became a Fedora addict and can't imagine leaving my house without a lid on, I also became enamored with all the men and woman of the lounge that put so much effort into their wardrobe and style...you've all become role models for me. I own a boutique wine store and for the last 18 months I've been dressing up for work...I love coming to work in a double breasted suit, and mostly I get great compliments although a few customer said they felt uncomfortable around me when they come in wearing sweats and sneakers...as if my style was meant to highlight their lack of. Which brings me to my last point...

The golden era was a time of details and social grace. We've really lost that today. It really doesn't take much money to build a decent wardrobe, and it only takes a mindset to choose to look better in public. I think a man or woman's choice of clothing in the work place is a clear indication of their self image and a great way to show respect for others... I now dress not only for my self but also in the belief that I'm bringing back a sense of elegance to public interaction...it's like one neighbor that takes great pride in their front yard and gardens it and plants beautiful flowers versus the one that neglects their front yard. I must admit that I'm more put off than ever when customers come in wearing smelly gym clothing, baggy jeans and or T shirts that should have been discarded 20 years ago. I may be a snob, but last month while walking in a nearby mall a lovely woman came up to me and actually thanked me for dressing up the way I did...she said woman always make the effort to dress up and she rarely sees a man pay so much attention to details like I did(bland office suits don't count) and she liked it! Nuff said.

Before

After

 

[rue]

Your story is incredible and I hope you don't mind if I compliment you by saying... Damn you look good

 

[WineGuy]

Your story is incredible and I hope you don't mind if I compliment you by saying... Damn you look good

Are you kidding...a compliment from a lovely lady...my heads spinning again...thank you dear Rue!

 

[rue]

Are you kidding...a compliment from a lovely lady...my heads spinning again...thank you dear Rue!

You're very welcome and I mean it

 

[The Good]

Wineguy, I can relate to your story. I'm a lot younger, being 21, but for most of the last decade, I was overweight. I think the peak of my obesity was at 230 pounds at one point, and this was about three to three and a half years ago. Most of the time I wore t-shirts, and sometimes baggy polos and short sleeve button-front shirts. My hair would often be unkempt and unstyled, long and shaggy. Sometimes I would go to get a haircut, but that was always a buzz-cut because I might have been too afraid to try something new (even though I spotted such styles on a chart including the classic side-part, flattop with fenders, pompadour, teddy boy quiff, and an assortment of other styles). Anyway, as recently as two years ago, with my weight fluctuating between 220 and 210 pounds (lost a little), I decided that I was going to lose weight for good. Since then, I have lost over 50 pounds, being at 157, now. 155 was my lowest actually.

Here's a before and after:

Before

After

Note: there is a two year difference between these photos.

Today, I wasn't exactly dressed to the nines, but it's Saturday, and it's a shirt and jeans kind of thing most of the time. I think I look a little younger than I did before, a weight loss, a combed hairstyle, and a shave make all the difference. Other than Saturday, I'm usually wearing one of my three jackets (G-1 leather jacket, a tan windbreaker, and a corduroy brown sport coat), occasionally a tie, dress shirt or polo, and jeans or chinos. I don't really wear sneakers/tennis shoes, I wear black loafers, or some sort of casual shoes that are brown leather (I don't think they're exactly dress shoes). Sometimes I'll even throw on one of my hats, whether it's my vintage Stetson, Akubra Fed IV, or modern Open Road.

 

[WineGuy]

Good for you TG, you really do look much better...and isn't it a pleasure being able to dress up!

My motto is "It's better to wear Italian than eat it"!

 

[rue]

I agree TG. You should be really proud of yourself

Better to wear it then eat it.... I like that

 

[The Good]

Good for you TG, you really do look much better...and isn't it a pleasure being able to dress up!

My motto is "It's better to wear Italian than eat it"!

I like the motto! Of course, I enjoy eating Italian cuisine. But I do like to think of "dressing for success" as a hobby, not just for the sake of impressing other people, that's not really the reason.

The point may have already been said, but dressing formally doesn't necessarily mean anyone is dressing that way because it is viewed it as "proper" or "obligatory" for certain occasions, rather it could be a hobby, an enjoyable part of life. I gradually discovered how much I actually liked dressing sharp because of some semi-formal events over the years, whether they include weddings or family cruise vacations. On my last cruise over a year ago, I even included my first sort of fedora into the ensemble, a grey Jaxon c-crown wool hat.

 

[martinsantos]

My answer to the thread question is a big "NO". People never will stop using more formal clothes, in several professions or places. But I really can't see any chance to the return of something like the 30s, when everybody used a suit, hats, etc, everyday. The suits could be bad tailored, the hats somewhat strange but... There were an innerent formality about dressing. Nowadays the "casual clothing" can be as expensive (sometimes more) as "formal". And can be everything but "casual" - this is, in fact, just a word...

 

[bunnyb.gal]

I think we may need to send WineGuy and The Good over to our Handsome Fellas thread! A sight for sore eyes, the pair of you!

I had a recent experience during a trip to Mississippi, when my mother took me to the local Walmart for something or other, and pretty much everyone there was dressed in the usual slobby way, except for one gentleman who was dressed to the nines in a burgundy-ish suit, beautifully cut, with a tan fedora. Now as it was Sunday I assumed he was just back from church, and he was sixty-five if he was a day, but my heart melted at the sight of him. Couldn't stop looking at him!

Anyway, all of this to say that I do so hope that there will be a return to more formal clothes, because whilst I've grown used to functioning as if all of the badly turned-out folk "were not part of my landscape" as they say in French, when I do see examples of the contrary it does lift my spirits for sure.

 

[rue]

I agree... there's nothing better than a well dressed man. At the very least I would think that men would want to wear suits just to impress the ladies.
The other day I saw a man in a Fedora at the gas station and I told him "nice hat". He didn't say a word [huh], but I'm glad I told him.

 

[Zombie_61]

Now that's an impressive photo! A good looking, well dressed man in a sharp suit, a relaxed pose, a wonderful setting, and all in glorious black and white! Wonderful!

 

[John in Covina]

I think that with some of the wonderful stories by Loungers making changes in their lives we can see a theme of a changes as to how a person sees them selves and how they wish others to see them.

 

[Edward]

I wish I had a desk job where I could wear a suit and tie all day. Especially if you deal with clients, it makes you appear more professional. I'd rather wear a suit and tie over the work boots, dickies, and snap-button uniform shirt with my name and picture on it I wear to the plant every day.

It makes a distinct difference. Here in academia, I could prance around in jeans and whatever virtually every day if I so chose, really dress down. I choose not to, and this has not only been notice but the fact that I make an effort daily has been commented positively upon by admin staff, senior department management and students. People definitely do appreciate it.

Sure but the last thing I want to do is wear wool clothing in a hot office for ten hours a day. For certain events I'm sure a suit and tie serve a purpose but in an office for so many hours a day seeing the same people every day, no one really cares. It's all about making money. If you are a huge producer you could wear a Borat male thong and management would'nt care. There are some people that do wear a suit and tie in an environment that doesn't require it and it becomes obvious to everyone that they are trying to draw attention to themselves. There is a difference between romanticism and practicality. I wore a suit and tie every day for fifteen years, it gets old real fast, when they finally went to business casual it made alot of people real happy and didn't cost a dime. Of course nothing is stopping anyone from wearing a suit and tie if they want to but I personally despise the whole concept unless it is an occasion that requires it.

Business casual is a joke, really. I genuinely don't see the point: the sort of folks who whine about the regular dress code are likely to find the average business casual requirements not much different (here in London, at least for those firms which have not abandoned it altogether, they are typically shirt, tie, trousers and possibly a blazer for men), and the rest of us won't bother.

I would suggest you are rather too dogmatic in suggesting that those who "wear a suit and tie in an environment that doesn't require" are "trying to draw attention to themselves". They may simply prefer to dress like that rather than to stick with the lowest end of what is 'acceptable' (no matter how casual, I have yet to find anywhere which genuinely has no workplace dresscode, even if it is unspoken). Academia is one such environment, here in the UK, where (almost) anything goes. At one annual conference at which I attend, the only such "attention seeker" we ever had was a guy who turned up in flip flops, a ratty t-shirt and holey jeans. In my eleven years with the organisation, he is still to date the only person who has ever dressed to draw attention to himself, and he was widely dismissed as a childish idiot as a result (of course, it didn't help that his papers were extremely poor and his every utterance was to the tune of 'look at me, I'm cool - not like you squares'. If anything, this sort of "rebellion" was even more ridiculous in an environment where there was no dress code per se. I'm sure there are attention seekers enough among the dandy also, but in my experience of life, the very worst have always been those who demand their right to wear what they perceive as 'cool', and these have exclusively been those who want to wear jeans and a t shirt or similar at all times and on all occasions.

Also it is entirely asymetrical between men and woman as woman in an office environment have never worn the equivalent to a suit. It was briefly popular in the 80's but did not last. Woman always dressed more casual than men in the office which is one reason why I think it all moved to casual. If I'm required to wear a suit and tie to work everyday then the women better be required to wear the equivalent everyday.

Women simply have a much wider variety of wardrobe choices, it is true. The female wardrobe tends to be much more fluid, unlike the average male, almost binary wardrobe: "Formal clothes and casual clothes". Of course, it seems to me that after all these years of struggle and still not being equal in the workplace (not least in the matter of remuneration, on average), I should think most ladies would happily trade places with you and your oppressive dress code in a flash.

 

[HDRnR]

Edward, I have seen firms with no dress code, one of them is the one of the largest corporations in the world. Its as casual as you can get and I've been in meetings with fairly high level people and it was all jeans with some wearing t-shirts. I have no problem with it and its makes traveling a hec of alot easier packing casual clothes compared to suits. Of course for non business functions you can do whatever you want, but we will never see a return to more formal wear in business, especially wearing ties. After being business casual for the past ten years, wearing a tie now seems incredibly bizarre, but I guess I've had my fill of it having to wear a tie everyday from first grade onward, hated it from day one. The majority of people will naturally choose casual over formal, especially if you work in an office everyday and that pretty much sums it up now that people have a choice.

 

[Tiller]

Business casual is a joke, really. I genuinely don't see the point: the sort of folks who whine about the regular dress code are likely to find the average business casual requirements not much different (here in London, at least for those firms which have not abandoned it altogether, they are typically shirt, tie, trousers and possibly a blazer for men), and the rest of us won't bother.

Agreed. Business casual arose here from the culture of its time. It rose from the Boomers who were in charge at the time, and their attempt to get more workers in a competitive market. The whole idea of the "hip boss", I mean look at him he wears jeans even though he makes X amount a year! He is SO COOL!! :hippie:

Anyone who thinks that it is universally going to stay that way are as blind as though who believed that suits would always be apart of the office. The harder jobs become the more people will start dressing better to be taken more seriously by others. Which is why you see articles about how people in my age group are starting to dress more formally, from time to time.

I would suggest you are rather too dogmatic in suggesting that those who "wear a suit and tie in an environment that doesn't require" are "trying to draw attention to themselves".

In my experience such sentiment usually comes from the envious and jealous. Those who cling to the lowest common denominator to the point where anyone who moves beyond that is a "traitor" in their eyes. They are no different then the culture that came before them, they just like a different kind of uniform.

They may simply prefer to dress like that rather than to stick with the lowest end of what is 'acceptable' (no matter how casual, I have yet to find anywhere which genuinely has no workplace dresscode, even if it is unspoken).

Most of us simply know what materials to wear for what season, and we actually have suits and shirts that fit us.

Academia is one such environment, here in the UK, where (almost) anything goes. At one annual conference at which I attend, the only such "attention seeker" we ever had was a guy who turned up in flip flops, a ratty t-shirt and holey jeans.

It's the same everywhere. Today's culture accepts this idea that "cool people" don't care what they look like. It's why you see people on college campus trying so hard to show that they "just don't care" by showing up in their bathrobe. Look at him! He doesn't care what other people think! How awesome is that? I'm sure you see it in some of your students . The fact is though that this race to the bottom creates some very odd looks, and eventually your dive to the bottom includes buying $250 dollar torn jeans to prove that you just don't give a damn.

In my eleven years with the organisation, he is still to date the only person who has ever dressed to draw attention to himself, and he was widely dismissed as a childish idiot as a result (of course, it didn't help that his papers were extremely poor and his every utterance was to the tune of 'look at me, I'm cool - not like you squares'. If anything, this sort of "rebellion" was even more ridiculous in an environment where there was no dress code per se.

They exist everywhere, and tend to have a certain name applied to them, but since this is the Fedora Lounge I'll simply leave it at that.

Oh and for the record I've fallen into your "worst kind of dandy" example before. Hey nobodies perfect. lol