Will we ever see a return to more formal clothes?

[theinterchange]

Very few people I know or have seen have been wearing those baggy long shorts for quite a few years now. Honestly I haven't seen them on anyone over 15 years old in 5 years or so.

You definitely don't live in Orlando... It's everywhere here.

 

[Tomasso]

a "proper" tux back in that time would have peak lapels, The open notch lapel was derived from the lounge suit and considered less formal even then.

I give up.........

 

[Tiller]

They are already considered formal, whereas a hundred years ago or so, when they were invented, they were considered semi-formal, a slot which is now held by suits. With the preponderance of black-tie-optional events, where a dark suit is acceptable, even though a tux is preferred, I think it is only a matter of time before that dark suit takes the lead and becomes the go to clothing for formal outings.

Perhaps, I simply don't see it. As I said even in pop culture today the tux is used in formal occasions, not ultra formal. Every cliche action movie that has a character going to a black tie event, or a casino grand opening, or what can simply be called "the rich people ball" has the protagonist in a tux (if he is male of course. Which most action stars are.) talking with other men who are also wearing tux.

Now when a protagonist goes to the place of the ultra rich say in the movie "The Skulls" the rich bad guys are all in white tie when the occasion calls for it. Some here may point out that it is the wrong time of the day to wear white tie, but for the film makers putting them in white tie just shows just how formal they are! They are the upper class, look at that they are too good for black tie!

Then there's Boardwalk Empire...

My point is that even today people understand that their is something above black tie/ a tuxedo, and that hasn't changed yet. It isn't even challenged, it is shown that their is something more formal then a tuxedo. That distinction still lives on in the pop culture, and as long as it continues (as I believe it will) the tux will stay where it is today. A piece of formal wear that still isn't quite going all out. In other words I don't see white tie dying and being replaced.

Maybe, I'm just optimistic, but as I said in another thread the other day I don't think it's impossible to have white tie events in the US, and I don't think that they are simply going to disappear completely. It still exist in pop culture, and most people still have a general idea that their is something fancier to wear then a tux, and as long as their are white tie balls, and events where famous people wear white tie, the traditional order will stand.

I think places like this have a lot to do with keeping style in check. I could be wrong though it's happened many times before. Many... many times before lol.

Another thing Yeps, I remember not to long ago on this board where people were saying how white tie was done at the Nobel reward ceremony. I decried the collapse of western civilization, and how our fashion standards have gone to hell, but then the reward ceremony happened and people wore proper white tie. lol

 

[rgraham]

One thing that stands out in this regard was something I noted last year when the San Francisco Giants had their victory parade in the city. Everyone of them wore some combination of tee-shirt, jeans and baseball cap, including the manager. Not a suit in sight, except Willie Mays. I mentioned this at a dinner party a couple of days later. I said how I missed the old days where all the players would ride in the back of convertibles, waving at the crowd wearing suits and showing some respect for the occasion. They looked at me like I was nuts. The casual look that day just made them all look sloppy, and frankly, like most of the crowd watching the parade. But what do I know. Maybe all teams do that now.

Check out a professional hockey team when the arrive to the arena. Every one of them is dressed like a GQ model. Makes them look highly professional, and commanding of respect. I wonder how long that will keep as a tradition.

 

[Tiller]

Football teams wear suits as well, before and after games and during celebrations. So do most Basketball teams. I remember a story not to long ago about one of the NFL coaches wanting to wear a suit for a special occasion on the field, but he was denied because coaches are suppose to where their team products well they are playing.
Off the field though they are in suits before and after the game, and all basketball coaches wear suits of course.

Blog post about NFL coach Jack Del Rio wearing a suit on the side lines back in 06. Interesting read really.

 

[The Good]

Tiller, interesting article, thanks for sharing. I like to see this sort of thing; taking a stand against the obligatory casual outfit that these coaches are supposed to wear. There's still a place for the suit. It's kind of too bad the suits have to be only designed by Reebok, though.

 

[Tiller]

There's still a place for the suit. It's kind of too bad the suits have to be only designed by Reebok, though.

I believe that the reason they originally denied Mike Nolan the right to wear a suit, it was because their wasn't any suit making sponsors at the time. The only way they could wear a suit was if one of the sponsors allowed it, which Reebok did, but I agree it's a sad state of affairs.

 

[The Good]

I believe that the reason they originally denied Mike Nolan the right to wear a suit, it was because their wasn't any suit making sponsors at the time. The only way they could wear a suit was if one of the sponsors allowed it, which Reebok did, but I agree it's a sad state of affairs.

You see, this might be the current face of "the establishment." They seem to want everybody getting away with dressing as casual as they can, yet they don't seem to leave a lot of room to accommodate those that actually like wearing more formal or dressier clothing. They might have been the same crowd that, back in the '60s and '70s, were against the formality of suits (traditional, non-leisure or disco suits that is) because it then represented their notion of the "establishment," come to think of it. I think we're seeing a gradual swing towards the other direction, but not nearly as strong.

P.S. Not that this has anything to do with suits or anything, but on the other hand, I recently passed up two other students on my campus that had some cool style; both wearing leather jackets, keeping with the "Outerwear" forum ties. The first guy wore what looked like a a sort of bronze-brown leather jacket (as in lighter than seal brown, but not tan or red), I think a white or khaki dress shirt, and khaki pants. The other guy wore either a very dark seal brown (like mine at the time), or a black leather jacket with a t-shirt (I think, couldn't really identify the shirt. His style was kind of '50s rebel though), and nicer minimally distressed, dark blue jeans. These jackets seemed to look like real leather to me... personally I consider real leather jackets "dressed up" a bit more than what most everyone else is wearing, more stylish, and that's a good thing. The hair was pretty cool too, first person had a slicked (I think), center parted style (looked like it), and the second had slicked back hair. I would consider both of their styles classic.

 

[Zombie_61]

There is a lot of interesting comments that point to some of the sociological questions as to the who and why.
In the past we had kids that wanted to be like their parents and would work at being just like dad or girls wanting to be just like mom. however there was always some that rebelled and pushed at going their own way.

While reading your post, I realized this is certainly true for me. My father had his faults like everyone else, but his strong points were well worth emulating.

With regards to adopting a manner of dress, my father was born in 1913 and was a rather sharp dresser when the occasion called for it (though I don't recall him ever wearing a hat). And he'd certainly had his fair share of jobs that required him to wear a suit and tie. However, by the time I entered the picture in 1961 my father held what I refer to as "a white collar job in a blue collar profession"--a supervisor at a tuna and pet food cannery. Because of the nature of his daily duties and his working primarily in one of the main buildings that labeled and packaged the products they sold, something as "formal" as a suit and tie was not only unwarranted, but could get you seriously injured or worse (a necktie getting caught in the fast-moving machinery, for example). As such, his daily "uniform" while I was growing up was a pocket tee, work pants, and work boots.

My own work history has consisted mainly of blue collar jobs, though I have had a couple of "white collar jobs in blue collar professions", so my own daily "uniform" has been primarily tee shirts, jeans, and work boots, similar to my father's. My version of "rebellion" was to grow my hair long when I could (what can I say, I'm a child of the 60s). To this day I've never owned more than one suit at a time because, other than "special occasions", I've never needed to wear one. As for the desire to wear one, unlike most of the male members here I have little to none, which is probably more of my father's influence--he had become so accustomed to wearing casual clothes that he found suits uncomfortable and cumbersome and would complain (in his own laconic way) every time he had to wear one.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Good on you Zombie, I agree. I like vintage too, but I have owned just one suit and I detest ties. You don't have to wear "proper" pants, shirts, ties, jackets to reallly go for classic clothing.

I personally think of formal clothes as the "uniform" or work clothes of those people who once ran the establishment. Often they were not nice people. Wearing gear like that today may be ironic or stylish, but as my grandfather (who was born in 1908) said to me, "One of the best ways to control people is to create a dress code. It eliminates the ordinary man from becoming a player, as he can't afford the dress code."

But things change. We have more money or opportunity to spend on a "look". I still hate modern clothing. But I don't want to sentimentalize the past, I just like well made classic items.

 

[scottyrocks]

The nature of my job doesnt lend itself to 'fancy' clothes. I havent been able to wear fancy to work for about 20 years. But when I have the occasion to, I love to put on a suit and tie.

 

[Lokar]

Regarding the "backlash" or children rebelling against their parents culture - it's a possibility but I don't think it will be all-encompassing.

We all know that the 60s was a rebellion against what was felt to be stuffy, repressive, etc., (quite a lot being leftovers from the Victorians), but less people know that the Victorians themselves rebelled, against the extreme Georgian excess (sexuality and abuse of alcohol everywhere, people not thinking about their common man, etc.).

Clothing was one of the things that both the Victorians (it became less excessive and the colours became more sombre) and the hippies (extreme colour, casual, etc.) changed.

However, our modern society, with the extreme focus on consumerism (and the powerful companes with interest in keeping the current throw-away culture) and even more, media and advertising, makes it far less likely in my opinion. The only thing I can see causing a radical change would be running out of oil, as when that eventually happens everything will change. Throw-away culture will be hard to sustain, people will want things that last, and we might see some kind of return to suits. I don't think it will ever go back to everyone wearing traditional suits (as even in the past with previous "backlashes", society has never gone backwards, but it has been influenced (e.g. the renaissance)), but we might have a return to wearing more formal, well-made clothes.

I always describe myself as old-fashioned, but my wife and most of our friends insist I'm the most modern of us - being fully against modern culture. There's some degree of truth to that, I think. Rebellions against culture need to happen, as otherwise it will just stagnate and rot.

 

[1961MJS]

... However, our modern society, with the extreme focus on consumerism (and the powerful companes with interest in keeping the current throw-away culture) and even more, media and advertising, makes it far less likely in my opinion. The only thing I can see causing a radical change would be running out of oil, as when that eventually happens everything will change. Throw-away culture will be hard to sustain, people will want things that last, and we might see some kind of return to suits....

Hi

I agree that our throw away society is getting bad. I think that a better solution would be to have either convicts or the un-employed work for their keep so to speak by taking apart old TV,s computers, microwaves, etc, and actually re-cycle all of the parts including the glass and plastic. In some respects, recycling costs more than just getting new, but then we're currently just paying these people to set around anyway. I would also suggest that their pay be substantially (at least $1 per hour) under Minimum wage.

Since we have extremely cheap foreign labor building most of the stuff we use in America (probably Britain too), it's no longer economically feasible to repair the items listed above anyway.

Later

 

[John in Covina]

I think that a better solution would be to have either convicts or the un-employed work for their keep so to speak by taking apart old TV,s computers, microwaves, etc, and actually re-cycle all of the parts including the glass and plastic. In some respects, recycling costs more than just getting new, but then we're currently just paying these people to set around anyway.

Here in California for quite a number of years we have been paying a "FEE" when you buy new electronics to prepay the disposal costs. On many items and services we have fees for disposal tacked on. Car tires and oil changes.

 

[rgraham]

The only thing I can see causing a radical change would be running out of oil, as when that eventually happens everything will change.

Once that happens, clothing style will be one of the last things on the list of importance.

 

[Lokar]

Once that happens, clothing style will be one of the last things on the list of importance.

If it was sudden, yes. If it's a gradual drop in the use of oil, then perhaps not.

 

[HDRnR]

Good riddance, wearing a suit and tie while sitting at a desk all day is just plain stupid, I'm glad business went casual. If you want to do that then fine, but don't force me to.

 

[Widebrim]

Good riddance, wearing a suit and tie while sitting at a desk all day is just plain stupid, I'm glad business went casual. If you want to do that then fine, but don't force me to.

Although I can see the validity of your first statement if we are talking about extremely hot weather and no air conditioning, friend, do you really believe that wearing a suit and tie while sitting at a desk all day is always "just plain stupid," or do you think that there are perhaps exceptions? And as far as somebody forcing another person to wear a suit and tie, I tend to think that there are other social/fashion conventions that people voluntarily adhere to, the sanity of which is more questionable...

 

[Derek WC]

...wearing a suit and tie while sitting at a desk all day is just plain stupid...

Explain, please. That is, rather, about the wearing a suit. I understand the part about sitting at a desk all day: I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I wish I had a desk job where I could wear a suit and tie all day. Especially if you deal with clients, it makes you appear more professional. I'd rather wear a suit and tie over the work boots, dickies, and snap-button uniform shirt with my name and picture on it I wear to the plant every day.