@ProteinNerd, yeah I think that's probably right. These days in the west most farms are mechanized so there's no thing like the amount of horses around that there was in the 30's and 40's. So yeah, these days horse does seem a little exotic and elite I guess. Artisanal repro makers are using it because the jackets they are copying used horse back in the day when there were way more horses around, and especially during early WWII period when armies around the world started liquidating their supply of horses, making the hides literally a dime a dozen. I guess that's were the marketing of the wild stallion, the noble creature, comes in to create value in this horse hide market glut depressing prices, and the impact of that still remains I guess.
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Why is horsehide better than steerhide?
- Thread starter JLStorm
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Strange...I read Horween's discription of various cattle differences..But when I lived on a farm, 'Bulls' were male cattle with testicles...'Steers' were male cattle with their testicles removed...'Cows' were female cattle...'Heifers' were young cows without offspring...'Calf' was a baby bull or cow...'Cattle' was a heard of cows, bulls, steers, calves and heifers. Although many city slickers have a tendency to call all cattle 'Cows'.
HD
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Guppy
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Thanks for that link!
What I get from reading this is that HH is more expensive for two reasons: fewer horse than bovines available, plus less yield per hide due to the variability in horse.
More expensive can then be perceived by the customer as "better quality" (because, naturally, more expensive is ALWAYS better, right?)
The thing is, with Aero, they don't upcharge for CXFQHH vs CXSH. They *do* upcharge for Vicenza ("Italian HH") but NOT CXL FQHH. But many other makers don't even offer HH, or if they do it's more expensive, which likely produces the perception that it is more desirable and better because it is less common and more expensive.
Horse is better at abrasion resistance, making it perhaps a better leather for motorcycle jackets, where you'd potentially need the best abrasion resistance possible, but otherwise there's absolutely nothing wrong with Steer. From the steer jackets I've handled personally, I find it to be a fantastic leather. It breaks in faster than HH, and has outstanding grain, especially after it breaks.
Well I guess that most urban hipsters and white collar career professionals wouldn't know the difference between a cow, a steer, and a bull, so it's easier to just say 'cow' and save yourself hundreds of inquiries, or scare off potential customers who are afraid to ask?
I'm guessing that cows aren't slaughtered until the end of their milk producing life, and dairy cows can live a long time, picking up plenty of scrapes and scars that you wouldn't want on a high-end jacket.
Steers on the other hand are raised to be butchered for their meat as soon as they reach maturity, making their hides younger and healthier (and stronger?), and less likely to have picked up scars. Better for jackets.
I guess...
I'm guessing that cows aren't slaughtered until the end of their milk producing life, and dairy cows can live a long time, picking up plenty of scrapes and scars that you wouldn't want on a high-end jacket.
Steers on the other hand are raised to be butchered for their meat as soon as they reach maturity, making their hides younger and healthier (and stronger?), and less likely to have picked up scars. Better for jackets.
I guess...
I prefer Horween CXL steer for the reasons Guppy mentioned. It's softer, heavier and breaks in much faster. I also love the grain it displays after very little wear. FQHH CXL is a beautiful leather as well. Just a bit lighter and retains its rigid nature and smooth appearance a bit longer than steer. Both are fantastic hides and I consider them equally desirable, my preference does lean toward steer just a bit.
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Cow is much more noble than a horse. It produces milk which makes it infinitely times more useful.
Seriously though, horses are really dumb. If you wanna talk true nobility, donkey is where it's at. Horses are cattle. Donkeys are level 2 dogs.
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@Monitor, I dunno man. I know these folks who have a dairy farm. They have a fully automated milking machine- the cow has just got to walk over to it and stand there until it's finished.
The told me that if you take one cow through the process, every cow that sees that just the once, learns how to use the machine.
That's way more smart than my dog who needed explanations, diagrams, and demonstrations for months before he learned to take a dump in the yard instead of on the kitchen floor.
The told me that if you take one cow through the process, every cow that sees that just the once, learns how to use the machine.
That's way more smart than my dog who needed explanations, diagrams, and demonstrations for months before he learned to take a dump in the yard instead of on the kitchen floor.
or a D-pocket!
It would work but consider that shell cordovan shoes or boots are almost at same price or even more expensive than high end leather jackets. It is not worth wasting on a jacket detail or it is not reasonable tripling the jacket price with a shell cordovan detail.
El Marro
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Or maybe two or three of each with a few goatskin jackets thrown in for good measure...In any case why not just have a jacket of each?
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[QUOyou "PADDY, post: 620162, member: 16742"]Another spanner thrown in...
We ALL have our preferences for what looks good [huh] Some love the creasing and jerky look of some Cow Hides, some like the look and so called 'historial' link of HH (which BTW was a plentiful source in the 30's and early 40's), others marvel over the dimply effect and downright durability of goat hide [huh]
I've seen and handled some beauties in original HH and goat from WWII and earlier. I've also handled some beautiful (and awful) modern homage jackets with great hide and not so great. You can even get buffallo for your A-2!
The frustrating and annoying answer to this is that it's all down to personal preferences and is very subject to what 'you' feel looks good, feels good.[/QUOTE]
But you don't mention steer and that is the questioner's focus
We ALL have our preferences for what looks good [huh] Some love the creasing and jerky look of some Cow Hides, some like the look and so called 'historial' link of HH (which BTW was a plentiful source in the 30's and early 40's), others marvel over the dimply effect and downright durability of goat hide [huh]
I've seen and handled some beauties in original HH and goat from WWII and earlier. I've also handled some beautiful (and awful) modern homage jackets with great hide and not so great. You can even get buffallo for your A-2!
The frustrating and annoying answer to this is that it's all down to personal preferences and is very subject to what 'you' feel looks good, feels good.[/QUOTE]
But you don't mention steer and that is the questioner's focus
Didn't want to jump the steps
That being said, I don't have a goat jacket yet, need to address this, which style would you get your first goat jacket in?
I don't think it would triple the jacket cost, I remember when I checked price for leather, a veg tanned sq/m of horsehide was about €60 and a shell cordovan pair was about €90.
You need about 3 sq/m for a jacket in the first place. I think I need to make that happen to see how it comes out
Guppy
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And here I was feeling silly for wanting an exact replica of a M65 field jacket in baseball glove leather...
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