why doesnt stetson or any hat company just go back to their roots?

[The Wiser Hatter]

While we have tried to interest Stetson in the Fedora the marketing department really is only interested in sales and they are just not seeing them. The hat store support for a open crown hat is just not there for the average man wanting a hat. Most cities don't have a full service hat store within a hundred miles in most parts of the country. As Robert has pointed out Preformed Fedoras have been made for years.
It's just the nut's like us who want open crowns.

 

[gtdean48]

...
It's just the nut's like us who want open crowns.

+1...To Us & Those Like US! Damn Few left.....

 

[Dronak]

The John B Stetson company ceased operations in the 70's. The name was sold and licensed. New hats bearing the Stetson name have nothing in common with vintage Stetson hats. So yes you can still buy a new "Stetson" but in name only.

Oh, so it's a matter of being the original company or licensing the name/brand. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with licensing the use of the name/brand, but I can see the issue here -- if the licensee doesn't produce goods of the same quality as the original, and the original goes out of business, then something's been lost in the process. Thanks for the info.

 

[gtdean48]

Oh, so it's a matter of being the original company or licensing the name/brand. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with licensing the use of the name/brand, but I can see the issue here -- if the licensee doesn't produce goods of the same quality as the original, and the original goes out of business, then something's been lost in the process. Thanks for the info.

HatCo bought up lots of smaller hat companies & consolidated operations. There wasn't a market to keep them all in business but HatCo could make a go with economies of scale, sort of like General Motors buying Pontiac, Oldsmobiles, Buick, etc. Dorfman Pacific bought Biltmore & shutdown production in Canada & now makes them in their plant in Texas. Again, not the same product, just the same labels & brand name. Stetson was such a valuable brand that the company contracted all kinds of products to use their name, sunglasses, boots, jeans, etc. & now bourbon.
Regardless of who is making the hat & slapping the labeling on them, open crown hats are niche. You see them more in western hats because the retailers are set up to shape the crown & brim the way the buckaroo likes them. Not so much for dress hats & stores.
You even have fedora freaks here that don't want to crease their own...

 

[alanfgag]

We've been wrestling with a similar angst over on the Betamax forum.

I think I read somewhere that about 300 of the Nostalgia model were sold - probably not close to breaking even. Seems the market for traditional open crown hats isn't there.

In the good old days, Stetson completed 300 hats every 12 minutes.

 

[Historyteach24]

Dean I am one of those fedora freaks that could go either way. I don't mind creasing my own hat but just last week when Tony told me my Tumwater was finished he asked if I wanted open crown. I told him to just crease it for me and he did a awesome vintage looking crease that I could no replicate in a million years.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

I don't think that most American hat buyers would have a clue what to do with an open crowned hat. I think that they'd just assume it was a Billy Jack style and not buy it. The whole concept of creasing your own hat is completely unheard of in current American society. It's also $, but in a second hand way. No one would buy an open crowned hat unless they wanted a round crown.

later

 

[bowlerman]

Relating this to making oboe reeds (also could apply to almost any other woodwind instrument), the larger manufacturers are cranking out low quality machined items to the biggest market: students or others who don't know any better. You couldn't call these companies and expect to order an unscraped "blank." Small companies, which in almost all circumstances are individuals, could easily process the cane, tie it onto a staple, and sell it to an experienced or even professional player so that they could personalize all of the final elements. In fact, it's easier and more cost-effective for individuals to do that because it cuts hours out of the hand-labor. I've sold both blanks and finished products to my students and colleagues; I suppose my point is making the distinction between large manufacturers and small businesses.
If any of us wanted an open crowned hat, it would be easiest done by calling one of the many custom hatters around here. Too bad Miller went under, since they offered a few open-crowned models at slightly more assembly line costs.

 

[gtdean48]

Relating this to making oboe reeds (also could apply to almost any other woodwind instrument), the larger manufacturers are cranking out low quality machined items to the biggest market: students or others who don't know any better. You couldn't call these companies and expect to order an unscraped "blank." Small companies, which in almost all circumstances are individuals, could easily process the cane, tie it onto a staple, and sell it to an experienced or even professional player so that they could personalize all of the final elements. In fact, it's easier and more cost-effective for individuals to do that because it cuts hours out of the hand-labor. I've sold both blanks and finished products to my students and colleagues; I suppose my point is making the distinction between large manufacturers and small businesses.
If any of us wanted an open crowned hat, it would be easiest done by calling one of the many custom hatters around here. Too bad Miller went under, since they offered a few open-crowned models at slightly more assembly line costs.

Good analogy! Akubra offers open crown because they have the market in Oz for it which we benefit from...

 

[tonyb]

Hi

I don't think that most American hat buyers would have a clue what to do with an open crowned hat. I think that they'd just assume it was a Billy Jack style and not buy it. The whole concept of creasing your own hat is completely unheard of in current American society. It's also $, but in a second hand way. No one would buy an open crowned hat unless they wanted a round crown.

later

That's about the size of it.

With so few hats-only retailers, and with so few men's wear retailers who do carry hats as well as employ sales personnel who know the first damn thing about hats, open crowned hats would just confuse.

Byrnie Utz, the venerable hat shop that has been in the same downtown Seattle location since something like 1938, does indeed carry open crowned hats. But, you know, they're equipped for it. And they also really need to have in inventory a hat for most anybody who walks through the door looking to buy a hat, because, well, it's a hat store, where a person might reasonably expect to find a hat.

 

[Edward]

Yip. Simple supply and demand - yay capitalism.

Shame, but there we have it.... Companies are always gonig to follow the dollar. Even Bates are doing a baseball cap now. [huh]

 

[alanfgag]

Yip. Simple supply and demand - yay capitalism...

There have been product diversity issues in other economic systems as well.

 

[Walt]

There have been product diversity issues in other economic systems as well.

Don't some retailers sell that one here in the US? It certainly fits the sartorial style of many of the typical Gen Y and Millennial crowd.

 

[Walt]

I doubt the open crown hat has ever been that popular with the hat buying public as something to buy and shape yourself. Sure, a few are sold that way, but not the majority. It was primarily offered such that the hat retailer could then custom block the hat in the store to suit the buyer's preferences and appearance at the time of purchase. With a trend to less service among the retailers and declining sales it made more sense to sell most hats preblocked.

A hat factory like HatCo/Stetson is going to make a product that they can sell in the largest volumes at the greatest profit. Business 101. The Nostalgia flopped. Though with better marketing it might have done a little better--I doubt it would have been enough to have made it profitable. Sadly we'll likely never know unless they give it a go again and that doesn't really seem likely does it.

Isn't Akubra really the only factory at this point still selling open crown hats to retailer? There might be a few but not too many for sure. Let's just hope Akubra can continue to provide those options and keep buying their hats to help insure that remains true!

Obviously Akubra seems to have a business model that allows them to make such hats. it would certainly be interesting to know more about that but I'm sure that is something they would not reveal---business secrets and all...My guess is that is still something popular in Australia. That is, have the hat retailer custom style your hat for you. Perhaps there is someone on here that is actually involved in the business side that knows more than us hat lovers looking from the outside do about that.

 

[The Good]

Regarding Stetson, I don't think Nostalgia was even a very good name for the hat. It brings to mind a romanticization of the past too much to make the hat seem contemporary and current. Could it possibly have been the name that put off some people from buying it? Somehow, Akubra manages to do well and sell open crown hats, but that could be attributable to brimmed work and dress hats still being a relatively common element of Australian culture. I think with the right marketing, open-crowned and vintage looking hats could witness somewhat of a rise in popularity compared to now, but what kind of marketing?

 

[gtdean48]

Stetson/HatCo moves lots of open crowned western hats to those retailers who are set up to shape for customer desires.
Akubra's open crown models are more their "drover" ones except the Fed4. These are individualized by their retailers or customers. Comparable markets...

 

[rlk]

A small increase in sales would be unlikely to offset the cost of the marketing to achieve it--resulting in a greater loss.
This market went away almost 50 years ago after a steep decline with few surviving companies. This past year has seen the end of a few more that had survived this period. I'm afraid you would have to put up your own money for a large scale enterprise in the hat industry based on pre WW2 styles.

 

[John in Covina]

It seems to me that the Nostalgia open crown was in fact made to fail. They did very little to advertise that hat and describe the fact of the open crown with any type of informing the customer as benefits of an open crown. This is one thing that David Morgan the US company distributor of Akubra has a pretty good amount of info about open crowns and some fine how to shape the open crown for your own tastes.

In marketing it is the features and benefits that help customers select the proper model of an item and also helps a salesman upsell to a better model.

It's like buying a flat screen TV if you find out about higher refresh rates you may consider getting a better TV to enhance the viewing experience. If you know squat and buy on price then you complain about the jitter and the weird look some paterns and movement makes on your new tv. Here the opportunity for a better hat was squandered by a company that simply wants to continue doing only what it knows how to do. The salesguys weren't gonna push a hat they weren't happy with, it was too out of line for them.

 

[John in Covina]

Stetson/HatCo moves lots of open crowned western hats to those retailers who are set up to shape for customer desires.
Akubra's open crown models are more their "drover" ones except the Fed4. These are individualized by their retailers or customers. Comparable markets...

The campdraft and bushman are open crown.

 

[gtdean48]

The campdraft and bushman are open crown.

Right as well as Squatter & Sydney from David Morgan. Again, styles that Aussie ranch hands would purchase...