White RAF Roll Neck Sweaters

[Edward]

Has anybody tried the Original Montgomery RAF Sweater? Pricey, but UK-made and more of a contemporary look with its shorter waist-knit.

http://www.originalmontgomery.com/mens-submariners-sweater-ecru

Not especially pricey compared to the others, though - granted, it's £15 of a difference to most, but not bad still. I should soon be in a postion to comment on the OM product, as by good chance I stumbled across one on ebay and won it for about a tenner (I've actually been keeping an eye out recently for one of their duffle coats). Soon as it arrives I'll post a comment.

I actually visited Silverman's when we were in the U.K. several years ago. Small shop but worth a visit. I took a taxi and the driver actually asked me why I, obviously an American, wanted to go up to that part of town. From the shop, I actually walked all the way back to the subway station near the Tower of London.

Did you walk down the Mile End Road? You'll have passed my flat if so!

OK so I'm a little confused! My Silvermans sub finally arrived today - but it has a Niffi Nautical label inside! Speaking to a rather confusing gentleman at Silvermans I now realise that they are not the manufacturers of the subs on their site - they just sell them on, buying in bulk from a manufacturer in Leicestershire, Kemptons I think he said. It looks as if mine might've got mixed up at the shipping point! I though Niffi were made by Outdoor Knitwear as they are shown on their site. So after all that debating I'm beginning to wonder if most of the subs all come just from the same place! Is the Niffi sub here any different from the Outdoor Knitwear one as shown on their site?

It does seem to be very well made and the first thing I noticed taking it off the posty was the weight compared to Richmond Knitwear sub that I returned recently - a good indication and the quality does seem to be excellent, soft wool and very warm. Problem is it measures a 40" chest (labelled as a medium) so it's very snug as I'm a 42", so trying to decide if it needs to go back. I've compared pics and it actually does seem to fit better than the Richmond offering that was a 44" chest...!

Looks good. How long are the sleeves - do you have any roll-up there?

Intersted to hear about these: I've been looking recently at thed idea of a new one in Navy as the SJC one I bought a couple of years ago - beautfiul sweater - has fallen irreperably to the carpet beetles. $%^&ers.

 

[Paulgo253]

Looks good. How long are the sleeves - do you have any roll-up there?

The sleeves on the medium that I was sent are a good length but without any roll up, which I don't think is right - but should be fine for me on the next size up. I really like the quality of the jumper generally and I've no doubt it will be very warm - just sizing is tricky and not helped when you're not sent what you're expecting. I wish I knew that Silvermans were in effect just a wholesaler as I would've just gone straight to Outdoor Knitwear! Wasn't too impressed that it took a week to arrive either!

 

[Bushwalker]

I've just realised that Kempton holdings is the corporate name for Outdoor Knitwear - so the subs supplied by Silvermans / Niffi Nautical and ON are exactly the same jumper!

Yes I think this is a little too tight for me! I will return and size up!

I read it from a forum that North Sea Clothing’s submariner is supplied by OK.

But NSC is way above my budget so I never have a chance to see it for myself.

 

[BlueTrain]

I must have walked down that road. Lots of (other) foreigners around.

Regarding the submarine sweater, go find an early 1950s Royal Navy documentary--there are several--about shipboard duties and life and see how the sailors looked during that period. There may be some from the 1940s and chances are, there will be individuals wearing sweaters. Sorry I have no links handy. But they were clearly dressed in "working dress" and their clothing usually looked well-used and often dirty. Same with US Navy from the same period. Such casual behavior would not be tolerated today, I suspect. Anyway, you will have a chance to see how they fit in use and as issued.

 

[Edward]

The sleeves on the medium that I was sent are a good length but without any roll up, which I don't think is right - but should be fine for me on the next size up. I really like the quality of the jumper generally and I've no doubt it will be very warm - just sizing is tricky and not helped when you're not sent what you're expecting. I wish I knew that Silvermans were in effect just a wholesaler as I would've just gone straight to Outdoor Knitwear! Wasn't too impressed that it took a week to arrive either!

Helpful, thanks. Yes, Silvermans are a retail outlet; they started way back as dealers purely in government surplus, but, in common with most all army surplus places nowadays, they have al;so expanded their range into retailing commercial product. They do have some 'own brand' stuff, both under Silvermans and 'GTH', though the manufacturing is obviously outsourced. Mostly I find them pretty pleasant to deal with, though you have to be careful and watch what items you buy rom them as just ocasionally if it's a common item available elsewhere, they'll be a bit on the pricey side. That said, I've never seen or bought surplus from them that wasn't as good as new, so they have that to be fair. Their own brand motorcycle gear seems pretty good too.

I must have walked down that road. Lots of (other) foreigners around.

It's a very vibrant part of the City, certainly - a real hub for immigration too, since way back. Immigrant myself; the vibrancy is one of the reasons I love the area.

Regarding the submarine sweater, go find an early 1950s Royal Navy documentary--there are several--about shipboard duties and life and see how the sailors looked during that period. There may be some from the 1940s and chances are, there will be individuals wearing sweaters. Sorry I have no links handy. But they were clearly dressed in "working dress" and their clothing usually looked well-used and often dirty. Same with US Navy from the same period. Such casual behavior would not be tolerated today, I suspect. Anyway, you will have a chance to see how they fit in use and as issued.

Certainly intersting to think that in those days the military had separate working, combat and dress clothes.... seem to be fewer optionsd for them that way these days. Mad to think there was a time when the dress uniforms were what they wore for everything - including riding into battle!

 

[BlueTrain]

There is a theory that a combat uniform becomes a dress uniform in two generations, maybe three (not everyone's generations are the same). I'm not sure I fully agree but it does seem like that. But everything keeps changing. Sometimes you might get the impression the military, particularly armies, change their uniforms frequently, like every ten or fifteen years. But if you're actually a serving soldier and wear a uniform every day, that's a long time.

Something that impresses me the most is how, in my father's day (WWII) and even more so in earlier times, is how few items of clothing soldiers were actually issued. A man might receive two tunics/jackets/frocks, two shirts, two pair of pants and little else. But the changes were constant.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

A Small OK submariner measures 18” in chest. And my Medium submariner is 20” in chest, just like yours.

So I expect the Large to be 22” in chest. So you are between Medium and Large.

I can squeeze myself into a Small, but I don’t like that look. And the wool yarn at my armpits would stretch to its very limit whenever I raise my my arms. It isn’t comfy and isn’t good to the wool either. A Small submariner on me just looks a Medium on you.

I eventually returned the Small Submariner to OK, and OK replaced it with a Medium. OK is excellent when it comes to customer service. I highly recommend OK to my friends.

The British wool is just so much better than any woolly jumper I can buy in Asia.


從我的iPhone使用Tapatalk 發送

Yes there is something extra good about British Wool, good we are good at some things.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I've just realised that Kempton holdings is the corporate name for Outdoor Knitwear - so the subs supplied by Silvermans / Niffi Nautical and ON are exactly the same jumper!

Yes I think this is a little too tight for me! I will return and size up!

Yes, Outdoor Knitwear, Kempton and Niffi Nautical are all the same firm based in Leicestershire.

Hopefully you will get the correct size. It can be difficult when working out sizing sometimes, they can differ somewhat.

 

[Paulgo253]

I read it from a forum that North Sea Clothing’s submariner is supplied by OK.

But NSC is way above my budget so I never have a chance to see it for myself.

Yes same here! I've been comparing pics of the ON subs and NSC. They look very, very similar, nothing leaps out as being different in overall design, even the cotton neck patches are almost identical as are the sleeve and hem welts - but I think NSC's are made in Nottingham, not Leicester where Kempton are based, so probably not the same manufacturer after all. The ON / Niffi Nautical jumper I've seen is excellent quality tho - I personally don't think any quality differences North Sea Clothing can offer warrants an extra £100 - more than double what the ON sub costs. I would be interested to be proven wrong tho!!

Yes, Outdoor Knitwear, Kempton and Niffi Nautical are all the same firm based in Leicestershire.

Hopefully you will get the correct size. It can be difficult when working out sizing sometimes, they can differ somewhat.

Thanks Steve. I think the medium size is just too much of a squeeze for me (wearing it I measure 44" around the chest) even with the give in the wool, so I'm going for the large size. Hope it's not too big tho as I think the subs look best a little snug!!

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Yes same here! I've been comparing pics of the ON subs and NSC. They look very, very similar, nothing leaps out as being different in overall design, even the cotton neck patches are almost identical as are the sleeve and hem welts - but I think NSC's are made in Nottingham, not Leicester where Kempton are based, so probably not the same manufacturer after all. The ON / Niffi Nautical jumper I've seen is excellent quality tho - I personally don't think any quality differences North Sea Clothing can offer warrants an extra £100 - more than double what the ON sub costs. I would be interested to be proven wrong tho!!



Thanks Steve. I think the medium size is just too much of a squeeze for me (wearing it I measure 44" around the chest) even with the give in the wool, so I'm going for the large size. Hope it's not too big tho as I think the subs look best a little snug!!

Yes I know what you mean.

 

[Ticklishchap]

Thanks guys - annoyingly, I ordered a Silvermans sub last week which hasn't actually arrived yet, and it was a bit of a toss-up between that and Outdoor Knitwear to be honest.

I thought I’d struck lucky when I found my local Army & Navy surplus store had submariners in stock – and made, they told me, by Outdoor Knitwear. Turns out it’s just a store that sells various forms of outdoor gear and the jumpers they stock are actually made by Richmond Knitwear. Although the quality looked generally ok, I wasn't happy and I particularly didn’t like the construction of the neck funnelling. The join sweeps down very deep on the chest and I’m just not keen on that look, being picky! I really really like the authentic J Pick & sons subs and they have a much higher neck seam, barely dipping into the chest at all. So I returned it and went for the Silvermans instead (which was the same price!).

Here's a pic of the Richmond Knitwear jumper for reference and you can see what I man about the deep neck welt in the pic below that:

I actually really like my Silverman's sub sweater. It's thick but very breathable wool and extremely durable: I think I've had mine well on 20 years now! One aspect of it is that because I am a large size it is very long, almost disproportionately so and so from the length point of view it can look as if it's one size too big for me. The look, however, seems to work and I'm quite happy with it. I wish you luck with yours.

 

[BlueTrain]

The style among the British for jerseys was hip-length, and rather longer than they are typically worn by Americans. Typically, but not always, a belt was worn over the jersey when worn as an outer garment. That was not the practice in the Royal Navy, apparently. Any idea if that style sweater is still on issue in the R.N.?

 

[Ticklishchap]

The style among the British for jerseys was hip-length, and rather longer than they are typically worn by Americans. Typically, but not always, a belt was worn over the jersey when worn as an outer garment. That was not the practice in the Royal Navy, apparently. Any idea if that style sweater is still on issue in the R.N.?

Agreed entirely, but my point is that it is even longer than ‘normal’ British hip length. Yes, these sweaters are still issued by the Royal Navy to submariners.

 

[Paulgo253]

I actually really like my Silverman's sub sweater. It's thick but very breathable wool and extremely durable: I think I've had mine well on 20 years now! One aspect of it is that because I am a large size it is very long, almost disproportionately so and so from the length point of view it can look as if it's one size too big for me. The look, however, seems to work and I'm quite happy with it. I wish you luck with yours.

I got the next size up from Outdoor Knitwear (well Niffi Nautical, which is the same brand Silvermans sent me) which is a 44" or Large. I'm very pleased with it, quality seems excellent and I think I needed that little bit of extra room (I felt a little 'corsetted' in the 40"- too many mice pies already!) The sleeves are a better length but it possibly is a tad long in the body. It's probably around 2 inches longer than the medium and I actually preferr the sligtly shorter length. I reckon somewhere in the middle i.e a 42" might've been ideal for but they dont make one - but it's not really an issue.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I got the next size up from Outdoor Knitwear (well Niffi Nautical, which is the same brand Silvermans sent me) which is a 44" or Large. I'm very pleased with it, quality seems excellent and I think I needed that little bit of extra room (I felt a little 'corsetted' in the 40"- too many mice pies already!) The sleeves are a better length but it possibly is a tad long in the body. It's probably around 2 inches longer than the medium and I actually preferr the sligtly shorter length. I reckon somewhere in the middle i.e a 42" might've been ideal for but they dont make one - but it's not really an issue.

I Think that sweater looks really good on you, absolutely fine and very handy now as the weather is supposed to be getting colder soon.

 

[Steve27752]

I got the next size up from Outdoor Knitwear (well Niffi Nautical, which is the same brand Silvermans sent me) which is a 44" or Large. I'm very pleased with it, quality seems excellent and I think I needed that little bit of extra room (I felt a little 'corsetted' in the 40"- too many mice pies already!) The sleeves are a better length but it possibly is a tad long in the body. It's probably around 2 inches longer than the medium and I actually preferr the sligtly shorter length. I reckon somewhere in the middle i.e a 42" might've been ideal for but they dont make one - but it's not really an issue.
It looks like a perfect fit to me.

 

[BlueTrain]

I just checked the clothing (kit) scales for the Royal Navy in Annex 39L of the Naval Personnel Management manual and they (submariners) are indeed issued a white wool jersey. They don't seem to be an issue item for officers, though. But everybody gets a "Jersey H/W Blue."

 

[Paulgo253]

I Think that sweater looks really good on you, absolutely fine and very handy now as the weather is supposed to be getting colder soon.

Thanks - there's certainly cold weather on the way and potential more snow here! I will probably give the sub and an Irvin a bit of an airing tongiht at the Beamish Christmas night I'm going to. Any excuse and it looks like it will be bloomin freezing!!

 

[Ticklishchap]

Thanks - there's certainly cold weather on the way and potential more snow here! I will probably give the sub and an Irvin a bit of an airing tongiht at the Beamish Christmas night I'm going to. Any excuse and it looks like it will be bloomin freezing!!

I am looking forward to the cold snap - bring it on as I can't get enough of it. I especially love bright frosty mornings and clear cold nights.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I just checked the clothing (kit) scales for the Royal Navy in Annex 39L of the Naval Personnel Management manual and they (submariners) are indeed issued a white wool jersey. They don't seem to be an issue item for officers, though. But everybody gets a "Jersey H/W Blue."

I think the Jersey H/W Blue, refers to the traditional Navy Blue Crew or Vee Necked Wool Ribbed Jerseys, with elbow and shoulder patches etc. Interesting to read your remark that Submariners are still issed with a white wool jersey, I was not sure if that was still the case.