Which religious group?

[Samsa]

... but I bet it won't, it won't go the way of politics

Oh boy!! [huh] lol

Hard to say. The decision about politics took a long time to come to fruition. Time will tell, I guess!

 

[Viola]

If we knew what happened after we died, religion, in its many quaint and superstitious forms, would not exist, because there would be no mystery to excite the fevered imaginations of those who fear death. Therefore who cares, because no-one KNOWS!!.. best to wait until you're dead and FIND OUT THEN, as to this life, there are plenty of satisfactory humanist social structures to keep society running...as an aside, a recent survey in this country found that the most religiously tolerant people are those who. like myself, have no belief in interventionist sky-dwellers due to a complete lack of empirical evidence, while those who profess to be very religious are the opposite...that says a lot I think.

Well, Judaism doesn't deal much with an afterlife so I doubt you can say "that's why" it exists. Not a big part of the faith.

What humanist social structures are you referring to? And how well do they work and how unbiased are they? Are you saying there's so little suffering in the world there are too many charitable organizations?

I'd be interested to see who did that study and what actual numbers they crunched. And how you define tolerance.

 

[Benny Holiday]

I have to admit, in real life I haven't met many atheists who are slow to make their views known quite loudly and vociferously when they find they're talking to someone who doesn't share their views. [huh]

 

[Sin Khan]

The So-called Educated

Those who need empirical evidence for the existence of God are those who simply refuse to accept that they themselves are the evidence they seek.

I don’t find it strange at all that those who call themselves educated are most often also those who refuse to believe in God. It is no wonder that Christ was a carpenter and the first four apostles that he chose were fishermen. Wisdom it seems often escapes the so called educated. Why is this?

It is because the educated have gloried themselves above others. They demand to be shown and convinced by God of his existence. But arrogance and pride have blinded them from the truth. They do not wish to know God and they do not wish to be convinced. No, instead they relish in glorifying themselves and their own achievements. Most often times they will never see God and his glory for wanting to see themselves praised over God whenever possible. When they make great strides in their research they never glorify God. Instead, they only glorify themselves and their egotistically, endless pride. They rarely commit any wrongs in their eyes and they alone accomplish all their successes.

Yet, whenever they fail they secretly blame God. Their failure becomes a cancer and their prideful disposition turns to rage. They lash out at all who they feel are beneath them. Their pride makes them unable to admit the reasons for their failures. They instead blame others. Never, do they pray to God for understanding and wisdom. Never, do they seek guidance from God and the Bible. It is just a book they say, a nice historical archive. Never do they read it for they abhor the word of truth.

Only at the end, do they feverishly and confoundedly seek for wisdom in religious matters. But God remembers them, or yes, and they then become the camel trying to fit though the eye of a needle. Their feverish searching for the truth never quenches their fears of death and longings for Gods wisdom and truth, and they die and leave this earth to be quickly forgotten despite all their worldly accomplishments and lavish praise from others.

This will be my last post in this thread, for many people do not want the truth, they instead abhore the truth and so abhore God as well.

 

[dr greg]

where to start

What humanist social structures are you referring to? And how well do they work and how unbiased are they? Are you saying there's so little suffering in the world there are too many charitable organizations?
.

Well, there's the nation-state for a start, I believe even the US has a supposed separation of church and state, and the only two openly theocratically founded countries on earth are Israel and Pakistan.
Besides, who needs religion when we have capitalism? A thoroughly atheist system with Darwinian principles that's the answer to all human needs and problems according to its most vociferous proponents.

 

[deanglen]

What does "speaks volumes" & "one's orientation" mean? It could be interpreted to sound like if one dismisses him then that person should be dismissed too.

Speaks Volumes: refers to providing a basis upon which further examination of the initial reaction will reveal their system of belief. Perhaps its should have been more clearly put as providing a starting point for mapping out their system of belief.

One' Orientation: Their system of belief, the structure considered as a whole unit with its core elements.

It is an extension Jesus' own question to the disciples in Matthew 16:13-17 "Who do the people say I am?".

dean

 

[killertomata]

Politics and religion are sticky subjects.~snip~
If one doesn't want to say,then i certainly understand.This is purely for curiousity as we are such a diverse group.And i really enjoy the conversations and thoughts therin.
JD

I'm quoting the original post because I'm not taking part in the discussions which have followed.

My group isn't on the poll- I'm Pagan. It's not a bad word, anymore than Jew is even if the Nazis say so. It just means I practice spirituality passed to be by my ancestors both Native American and Celtic (Celtic reconstruction) from prior to the advent of monotheism. Don't confuse it with New Age, this is about what's ancient and natural. I honor the divine feminine and masculine and the cycles of this earth, believe all Gods are one, and the idea that all spiritual paths lead to the same place. I absolutely do not believe in the concept of Hell, Satan or evil (I believe it is a way for people to not take or place responsibility where it belongs, and it is a political tool), and I don't believe for one moment that the bible is the word of any divinity, but the word of Man trying to be the voice of God. If it ever started out as divine, there have been far too many translations by human beings driven by ego and fear and not the divine, and so by now I feel it would have lost all divinity it might have had. So I listen for the divine in all of creation.

My entire family is Pagan. My boyfriend is. Have been forever. And I happen to do my best to live a life of less harm. Hoping to leave the earth a better place than I found it, and I do this in lots of various ways.

I personally have found that religion and spirituality do not always go hand in hand, and so I prefer to consider mine a spiritual path, not religious though Paganism is a recognized religion in this country- our veterans can have their symbols on their tombstones, our churches can have the same exemption. Unfortunately a lot of people who are members of mainstream religions don't practice what they preach and only choose to judge us even though it is not their job. I'm fortunate enough to be very close to many people who do practice what they preach, and so I'm good friends with Catholics, Protestants, a Messianic Jew, and lots of various other religious types. Growing up it wasn't that way, but most people who come at you with 'You're going to Hell' or whatever are pretty full of it and they don't speak for any God as far as I'm concerned, they're just full of their own egos.

Also, FYI- most people don't consider Buddhism a religion, that's a huge misconception. I know you will find things online saying it's a religion, but the actual practitioners I know don't call it a religion, and Buddha didn't.

Anyway, that's my two bits- enough for me, just to say my piece and let everyone else go back to what they were talking about.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Thanks for posting, killertomata.

I, too, found Pagan missing, as well as Wicca. Those real "old-time" natural religions come closer to what I believe, when I do believe, than any of the religions tied to politics and state and fear of death.

karol

 

[Viola]

Well, there's the nation-state for a start, I believe even the US has a supposed separation of church and state, and the only two openly theocratically founded countries on earth are Israel and Pakistan.
Besides, who needs religion when we have capitalism? A thoroughly atheist system with Darwinian principles that's the answer to all human needs and problems according to its most vociferous proponents.

Its most vociferous proponents would kind of have to believe that, wouldn't they? Talk about a self-selecting group. I could find vociferous proponents for nearly anything.

I have no problem with the seperation of church and state. Which isn't an argument for the non-existence of one or the other.

 

[Undertow]

I'm agnostic. I have a big ? above my bed. lol

But seriously, I believe all religions are like slivers on the spectrum of Truth. None are false but none can wholly explain the truth. It's like saying the color red defines all light. I think you see my point.

I believe "God" or "the One" or the pantheon of gods is a necessary figment of our imagination, only in the sense that we characterize this/these being/s with certain identifiable traits. One simply cannot define infinity.

I always liked when Jesus stated he was the Alpha and Omega in Revelations. Although I don't particularly hold much weight in the Bible (much less Revelations), I do think this statement sums up "the Truth" about "God".

I was born and raised Catholic but like many a good Catholic, I've repented from my old ways.

(p.s. All the Catholics I grew up with are either Atheists or Agnostics now. Is that a trend any of you are noticing, too?)

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Undertow -- I have a goodly number of Catholic friends who left the faith after some sort of entanglement with the church over their divorces and remarriage, those who tried and failed to get annulments. And some who were raised in the faith but left and are now agnostic or belong to some other religion.

On the other hand, I have one old friend who has become a staunch ultra-conservative Catholic. When I get together for a luncheon with her, we wisely stay off politics.

She keeps telling me so-and-so is not a Catholic because they vote a certain way or liberally interpret something. I bite my tongue on her judgements. If everyone she says is not a Catholic isn't a Catholic, the church would become a tiny, minority religion!

karol

 

[Dr Doran]

I have to admit, in real life I haven't met many atheists who are slow to make their views known quite loudly and vociferously when they find they're talking to someone who doesn't share their views. [huh]

I think I'm being pretty chill, and I'm a big fat atheist.

Am I not being chill?

 

[Dr Doran]

What they lose sight of is the truth that death is not the end. Death is only the beginning..

I would need evidence before I would accept that. That's fine if you don't though. To each his own.

 

[MK]

.

I would need evidence before I would accept that. That's fine if you don't though. To each his own.

To find that evidence you would have to go yourself. Even then I don't suppose that would technically be evidence. Even if you were allowed to return.

On another note....I think it takes far more faith to be an atheist than to believe in God. To believe this is all a big coincidence is a big challange....not to mention that without some form of creation by a diety even the big bang hasn't a leg to stand on. The way I see it, to deny the existence really does require far more faith. Thoughts?

 

[Bebop]

I have to admit, in real life I haven't met many atheists who are slow to make their views known quite loudly and vociferously when they find they're talking to someone who doesn't share their views. [huh]

I can say the same thing about believers. Have you ever had an Atheist come to your door to hand you literature that claims you must stop believing? [huh]

 

[John in Covina]

I can say the same thing about believers. Have you ever had an Atheist come to your door to hand you literature that claims you must stop believing? [huh]

***********
That only proves they're unorganized, except for the ACLU maybe.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Wow...this is all starting to sound like a conversation I wouldn't have at a dinner table when the conversants wern't all family.

 

[Bebop]

To find that evidence you would have to go yourself. Even then I don't suppose that would technically be evidence. Even if you were allowed to return.

On another note....I think it takes far more faith to be an atheist than to believe in God. To believe this is all a big coincidence is a big challange....not to mention that without some form of creation by a diety even the big bang hasn't a leg to stand on. The way I see it, to deny the existence really does require far more faith. Thoughts?

As an Atheist, I have a lot of faith. I am far from faithless. The question is not "how did the big bang happen?" Or "is this a all a coincidence?" The question is what proof is there that a diety was involved?

As far as the only way of finding evidence of death being the beginning not the end would be by going there, of course. That is the point. We don't know what happens after death. We can't say "it is the begenning not the end" with anything other than belief. There are no facts stating that to be true.

 

[John in Covina]

To find that evidence you would have to go yourself. Even then I don't suppose that would technically be evidence. Even if you were allowed to return.

***

there have been some programs on TV about back from death experiences, where people have died but been revived. People tend to dismiss the reports as an oxygen starved brain.

 

[Viola]

I can say the same thing about believers. Have you ever had an Atheist come to your door to hand you literature that claims you must stop believing? [huh]

That's the point. They're roughly similar; many of them mind their own business, and some don't know how to. The whole "more tolerant" thing isn't something I think we can award to one particular religion...or the lack thereof.

And yeah, I have been confronted by angry/outreaching athiests when I didn't particularly want to be "outreached."