Which decade is the worst in terms of style?

[John in Covina]

They didn't care AT ALL what they were wearing, or infact looking suitable for the occasion - Jeans at a WEDDING or FUNERAL, PYJAMAS to do your shopping??? etc, then it has all just gone to pot.

I have brought this up previously in other threads. The concept of casual and that parents will not enforce any rules of expectations as to dress or how to act on their children. (Don't want to be the bad guy! I want to be my kids best friend not their parent.)

About 6 years ago I went to a funeral / wake type of event. It was really hot that day and i wore a dress shirt or one with a collar, khakis dress shoes. (No tie or jacket as the heat was oppressive.) With just a couple of exceptions amongst the oldest of the mourners, I was the most dressed up person there. The adults were dressed like kids. Jeans or shorts, concert t-shirts and Big Gulps! One guy had to work immediately afterwards and had to come in his gas station uniform and looking back probably made the best effort. The teens were incapable of maintaining quiet and had no sense of mourning crowding up front to one side of the casket with lots of near hysterical giggling and tom foolery. None of the adults asked them to be quiet or told them to go outside.

If my brother or I had come dressed like that or acting like that my parents would have been mortified. A friend of mine told me something his mother had said when it comes to this lack of understanding. She said: "Poor people have poor ways." Poor may reflect not only a financial state but a distinct lack of knowledge as to decorum, and as such these people were truly poor.

 

[Miss Sis]

John, I agree that a sense of being properly dressed for an event or occassion must also be followed with a sense of how to behave in an appropriate manner.

Many people today do indeed have 'Poor ways' in that they don't know how to dress/behave in an appropriate way, and sadder still, they just don't care. You can be poor but still have great dignity or filthy rich and downright rude. [huh]

So that brings me back to my post, that NOW is one of the worst times for style and dress.

 

[LizzieMaine]

So that brings me back to my post, that NOW is one of the worst times for style and dress.

I think the problem lies beyond fashion, to be honest -- it's the attitude of "Making a good impression on *you* doesn't matter, because why should I have to do that? You aren't that important." That's a reasonably recent cultural development, I think, at least compared to the culture some of us grew up in.

 

[John in Covina]

There is a thread where we discussed "the loss of the sense of occasion" and it is precisely that the concept of casual to the point of sloth is clearly on the increase.

The loss of the knowledge of all that went with ceremony and occasion by the public at large makes for another class seperation of sorts. Eventually only the religeous, wealthy and some bourgeois will have any remnent of decorum which the masses will view with suspicion and eventualy attempt to stamp it out as an enforcement of ruthless equality. I am first reminded of the Twilight Zone episode with Burgess Merideth as the Librarian taken to the court and receiving the pronouncement: You are obsolete!'

Second and perhaps even better is the Vonnegut short essay 'Harison Bergeron" from the superb book of short stories "Cat's Cradle" which is worth a read.

This link will take you to an online version of the essay:
http://www.thelogicofsuccess.com/harrison-bergerson-kurt-vonnegut.htm

 

[Lady Day]

I think the problem lies beyond fashion, to be honest -- it's the attitude of "Making a good impression on *you* doesn't matter, because why should I have to do that? You aren't that important." That's a reasonably recent cultural development, I think, at least compared to the culture some of us grew up in.

I think that plays into the, "My own comfort is greater than how I will inconvenience you, or my effort to impress anyone." This notion that we cant inconvenience ourselves for one moment without the, "I dont have to do that, really?" mentality is one I find a new phenomenon.

Its everywhere, in customer service, to neighborly exchanges. People are so fast to assume that if you dont agree with them you are the enemy instead of a no I just dont agree with you.

LD

 

[John in Covina]

It comes up with me occasionally when dealing with sales-persons or waiters. I tend to get upset and they get offended when i tell them what their job actually entails as a minimum for customer satifaction at an ordinary level. The concept of "going beyond the call of duty" to get satisfaction to help is lost on many.

 

[avedwards]

I think that plays into the, "My own comfort is greater than how I will inconvenience you, or my effort to impress anyone." This notion that we cant inconvenience ourselves for one moment without the, "I dont have to do that, really?" mentality is one I find a new phenomenon.

I agree with you that the world is shifting that way in some respects, but there are still many exceptions.

Last Wednesday the snow over here was so bad that we couldn't get up our street. Our neighbour helped us shovel a path for the car and then pushed it for us, expecting absolutely nothing in return (though we intend to give a small gift to show our appreciation).

Minutes after that I saw a total stranger help a woman who couldn't get her car to move.

The world is a two-sided coin I sometimes think. On one side we have the people who are prepared to help, possibly because they know what your position is like (as was the case with our helpful neighbour). On the other side you have the people who don't care at all, the sort who will shout abuse at people like us (as seen in the dumbest comment thread), the sort who don't care about anyone but themselves and won't lift a finger to help anyone. What almost amuses me is that some people are so used to the latter attitude that when I hold a door open for them they are actually surprised at a teenager showing common curtiousy.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Its everywhere, in customer service, to neighborly exchanges. People are so fast to assume that if you dont agree with them you are the enemy instead of a no I just dont agree with you.

LD

Exactly. We see that a lot on internet discussion forums, too.

 

[kamikat]

On one side we have the people who are prepared to help, possibly because they know what your position is like (as was the case with our helpful neighbour). On the other side you have the people who don't care at all, the sort who will shout abuse at people like us (as seen in the dumbest comment thread), the sort who don't care about anyone but themselves and won't lift a finger to help anyone. What almost amuses me is that some people are so used to the latter attitude that when I hold a door open for them they are actually surprised at a teenager showing common curtiousy.

As with the examples about the snow, I think adversity makes us come together. My neighborhood is a middle class one, but not very friendly. We even have some bullies on the block that terrorize my children. However, when we had a hurricane blow through several years ago, we all came together and shared supplies. Same thing with the blizzard last month. I saw neighbors I had never met before helping with snow blowers and shovels. I think it's human nature to help each other when we really need it.

 

[kamikat]

About 6 years ago I went to a funeral / wake type of event. It was really hot that day and i wore a dress shirt or one with a collar, khakis dress shoes. (No tie or jacket as the heat was oppressive.) With just a couple of exceptions amongst the oldest of the mourners, I was the most dressed up person there. The adults were dressed like kids. Jeans or shorts, concert t-shirts and Big Gulps!
.

The same thing happened to me last week. A bunch of friends gathered at the home of a close friend to carpool to the viewing. When we showed up, my husband was the only man in a suit, I was the only one in a dress. As soon as the host saw my husband, he went to change. What I found most odd was that the husband of the deceased wasn't even in a suit, just khakis and a sweater. It's possible it's because the actual funeral was scheduled later in the week and the viewing was just for people who couldn't make it to that, but I still think that family should have been dressed more formally.

 

[Bustercat]

1980 (and early 1990's,) and by extension, 2005–present. It's this wretched 80's revival. Tapered skinny jeans, neon colors, hi top sneakers, giant Sally Jessy Raphael eyeglasses, ratty hair. Clothes that look like they came from goodwill after all the good stuff had been taken by other people. Not good at all.
Even 'higher' fashion in the 1980's was ugly to me. Boring cuts, wispy hairdos... massive shoulder pads and big permed hair on women.. and at the very worst, you had this:

I don't mind the 70's though. Fun stuff.

 

[MrNewportCustom]

"I have a big problem when I look at today's generation. They mostly dress alike, look alike, talk alike and behave alike. They are everything: alike. Where is the individual identity?" - Michael Doster (2009), fashion photographer (1938- )

 

[Paisley]

But hasn't that usually been the case?

 

[LizzieMaine]

But hasn't that usually been the case?

There is no conformity more absolute than that of nonconformists.

 

[Dr Doran]

The way I see it, the all-black thing is just lazy, no-need-to-think "sophistication." Anyone can do it, it requires no thought or planning or effort to pull on a black turtleneck and a pair of black jeans -- all you need to add is a copy of the NY Review of Books under your arm, a $10 latte in your cup, and a supercilious look on your face, and you're Cool. Which is a lot easier than actually having to think about it.

$10 lattes are stupid. All-black is moderately dumb. However, snideness agaisnt the NYRB is misplaced. The New York Review of Books is the most intelligently written magazine on the newsstands, and I will defend it until the day I die. I have been subscribing to it since about 1994 and years of reading its long complex articles thoroughly is one of the things that made it easy for me to excel at Berkeley. It discusses (from, admittedly, a left perspective) economics, art, literature, history, politics, and science. Its writing is superb. Its coverage of the intricacies of any argument and any scholarly problem is very detailed. Some of these hipsters may be reading it because they like it and it's ... ummm ... really good. No hipsters EVER read it on the West Coast to look cool. They read hipster magazines like Giant Robot or (20 years ago) Ben is Dead. They do not have the focus to read the NYRB. Perhaps East Coast all-black-wearing latte-swilling hipsters are more intelligent. Or have adopted the NYRB as a status symbol. If so, bravo to them (if they actually read it). I'd rather see them reading NYRB than some rag.

 

[John in Covina]

She wasn't commenting on the content or even suggesting they read it, just that it was an accoutremant to look cool. Much like some wear that Che t-shirt.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Exactly. It could just as well be "Paste" or "Film Comment" or some other such publication, anything that might be shown off to demonstrate to others what rarefied taste you have. (I read FC myself, but my tastes are very far from rarefied.)

The point is that if you're constantly preoccupied with *looking* cool, it's a pretty good job that you ain't, and that sort of pretentiousness is all too common in modern fashion and modern culture.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

And the "Winner" (So Far) Is...

The '70s and '80s

I thought I'd take a vote of the worst decade(s) for style based on selected posts on this thread at the time of writing. I only counted unique posts nominating a specific decade, excluding multiple posts by the same person, commentaries, and posts defending certain eras and/or its aspects. And here's the results:

1910s: 1
1920s: 2
1930s: 0
1940s: 0
1950s: 0
1960s: 5
1970s: 9
1980s: 9
1990s: 8
2000s: 7

 

[Jenniferose7]

Hmmm...For me it's a toss up between the 90s and now. Lack of style in the 90s became stylish. Clothes got really baggy and sloppy and I just remember it being a mess. I think it was the beginning of the end of dressing for occasions and situations. I blame the 90s for our current preocupation with being "casual" and making it ok for people to wear flannel pj pants out in public during the winter. *cringe*

 

[Brian R.]

80s definately the 80s.