What do they want? What did they want in the Golden era?

[sheeplady]

There are SO many choices, and one MUST exhaust one's appetite before "settling" on a final choice. Another factor is this idea that there is something wrong with anyone who is not at least trying to pursue happiness.

In the era, people weren't obsessed with "being happy". Now, men and women settle down with a good option only to find themselves fretting, "Could I be happier with this other person?" "If he/she would cave into [x] desire, would I like them more?" "Am I just spinning my wheels, or could I be so much happier with [y]?"

I guess it boils down to the fact that many folks have so much more time on their hands. They're not fighting for their lives, or hungry, or taking inordinate risks. They are sliding their fingers over a touchscreen and wondering when the wage-slave behind the counter will finally be done making their $10 coffee. [huh]

No wonder people can't just be happy.

I'd argue that if you're not happier in a marriage, you're with the wrong person. Now, I'm not saying you're happy 100% of the time, but if your relationship doesn't make you happier than you'd be single (or with someone else) at least 90-95% of the time, you shouldn't be in that relationship. Notice I said happier- bad things happen in life and honestly a partner should make those things better (i.e. make you happier than you would be otherwise) but marriage isn't a magic cure for the negatives in our lives.

So for instance, if you're married to the right person, that can't make a bad diagnosis go away. However, being married to the right person can make the diagnosis less frightening and more manageable, so you're at least a bit happier (or less depressed or scared) than you would be otherwise.

 

[Angus Forbes]

Sure alot of resentment and bitterness seems to surface in a thread like this.

Sure does. Why do people post this kind of stuff? Maybe some thoughts and some opinions are best kept to oneself. Come to think of it, that would seem to be one of The Rules from The Era.

 

[sheeplady]

I find the implied hetero-normative nature of this photo offensive.

I find your assumptions that they are a hetero couple based upon their clothing and hair colors to be offensive.

Maybe they're hipsters of unspecified gender and are shunning society's oppressive use of gender stereotyped color. Or they feel it's ironic or something.

 

[Undertow]

I agree, and that's where this great human experiment gets fuzzy.

In a natural world, relationships would be some of the most complex and difficult situations humans could hope to understand.

In this world full of synthetic oil-slicked BS, you can never be sure if you're unhappy, or if you have an unreal expectation; if you're tired or just lazy; if you're content or apathetic.

I think Lizzie has a point about marketing. Everybody has wants and needs, and I think it's natural to sometimes want what you can't have. But then there is a voice - either from your TV or your radio, or a movie, or a magazine that says, "Maybe my teeth aren't very white," or "buying this gasoline with ethanol makes me feel like I'm doing something to help the environment." Our lives have become so saturated with this nonsense that it's hard to know what's natural and what's a distraction. I mean since when did it matter what shade of white your teeth were? Answer that, and you can see where we're going here...

Used to be you could date a person, take them to a movie, meet the family - progress like two civilized people. We have that now, too, but it's at hyperspeed and if you're not pants down in the Chevy by date#3, one of you is either struggling with their identity, a prude, or both, or worse...

 

[1961MJS]

What's more important, excitement or contentment? We live in a culture today that insists that the adrenaline must *always* be flowing...

Hi Lizzie

Fortunately, I don't have any direct experience with this, but I'm originally from a small town, we just went over 1,000 in 2010. According to my friends that still live in town, I need to watch out in the local bar. There's a husband and wife team that apparently like the adrenaline. The wife flirts with a guy, and offers a free show out back of the bar, guy and girl go out back where she removes her shirt causing her husband who is usually out back smoking to beat up the unlucky guy. Gotta love hillbillies with a plan.

later

 

[John in Covina]

According to my friends that still live in town, I need to watch out in the local bar. There's a husband and wife team that apparently like the adrenaline. The wife flirts with a guy, and offers a free show out back of the bar, guy and girl go out back where she removes her shirt causing her husband who is usually out back smoking to beat up the unlucky guy. Gotta love hillbillies with a plan.

Wow! I guess this might be perceived as the Golden Era for Jerry Springer. This puts a whole new light to Stand By Your Man.

Supporting sick and twisted I guess leads to succesful marrige in the sticks.

 

[Flicka]

Oops, began writing and editing and didn't mean to hit post.

That turned out a reeeaaally weird post.

 

[MikeBravo]

I find your assumptions that they are a hetero couple based upon their clothing and hair colors to be offensive.

Maybe they're hipsters of unspecified gender and are shunning society's oppressive use of gender stereotyped color. Or they feel it's ironic or something.

You are obviously an intelligent and insightful woman.

 

[MikeBravo]

In this world full of synthetic oil-slicked BS, you can never be sure if you're unhappy, or if you have an unreal expectation; if you're tired or just lazy; if you're content or apathetic.

A few years ago there was an interview program in Australia, and one of the topics was marriage.

The host interviewed a couple who had stayed married for about 30 years. They had been chosen because there had been a TV program about them in the 70's when they were getting married. I saw the footage and I must admit I gave them 6 months as they were from different backgrounds and seemed so young, still being in their teens.

Anyway, here they were still married 30 years later and the host asked them what the secret was to staying married for so long. They both said, without even looking at each other, "Hard work"

Maybe people aren't as prepared to work hard at marriage as they used to?

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I hope my mother never grows a moustache like my father's.

Ever notice how the longer couples stay together, the more alike they look?

 

[Flicka]

In lieu of the confusion I mistakenly posted above, I am going to let Paul Newman say what I meant much better than I ever could:

I've repeatedly said that for people as little in common as Joanne and myself, we have an uncommonly good marriage. We are actors, we make pictures — and that's about all we have in common. Maybe that's enough. Wives shouldn't feel obligated to accompany their husbands to a ball game, husbands do look a bit silly attending morning coffee breaks with the neighbourhood wives when most men are out at work. Husbands and wives should have separate interests, cultivate different sets of friends — and not impose one upon the other.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Please notice I said nothing about women or men in my comment. Assuming I am talking only about abuse against women is *far* from true.

This story is about a woman. A woman I know married a man who was severely abusive when she was 18, at the urging of her family. She had two children with the "man." At first the abuse was controlling, but by the time they had kids it escalated. She went to her pastor for help, but was told that her marriage vows were for life, and she should try to be a better wife and he wouldn't beat her. She went to her mother, her mother told her she was lucky to have a man. She went to her sister, who told the abuser she was trying to escape and borrow money. Her abuser tried to kill her by drowning.

So she packed up what she had, took the girls out of school (actually stole them out of recess, because her abuser was so well liked in the community she knew the school would call him if she took the girls out early), and ran halfway across the country. They were living out of her car, because she had nothing. She called her mother after a few months- she was lonely and thought her mother would help her- it was getting to be winter and living out of the car was getting difficult. She was sure her mother loved her grandkids more than the abuser. The mother told the abuser where they were, and the mother and children were physically attacked in public and beaten- thankfully other people intervened. They ran twice more- to be ratted out. So this woman had no one she could trust- ever. She even changed her children's first names to hide.

Are you seriously suggesting she should have "known better" when everyone said he was a saint, including her own family? That she had all these opportunities to run, when her family turned her in at every available moment, knowing she and her children would be beaten?

I'm sorry, but every bit of fault lies on the abuser, those that enable him/her, and those who ignore the problem and do nothing to help. There were so many people who could have helped this woman, and probably some of them sat back and said "she should have known better."

I gather this person is a friend of yours. If I'm wrong, please excuse me, but in any case let me begin by expressing my deepest sympathies for that woman in the horrendous ordeal she went through. Her deplorable family deserves a good chunk of the blame for what happened, no doubt, and in fact I would argue that they should be charged with conspiracy to commit an offence, since they called the abuser knowing he would assault her. And that minister is a special kind of idiot to say something so rediculous and despicable. Personally, if I found out my Pastor did that, I would try to have him fired. He should have immediately placed the abuser under church discipline (right after he called the police, of course) and if he didn't change his ways he should have been expelled from the church publically and in total disgrace. That is what the bible prescribes for unrepentant ungodliness in the church.

Now, please understand that my comments are not intended to absolve the criminal (we'll refer to him as that, because that's what he is, among other words not appropriate for this forum) from any of his crimes. Having said that, there are some things that stick out in my mind about this whole situation.

How long did she know this guy before she married him? Granted she was 18, which is fairly young, but she was an adult. Were there no warning signs at all? Perhaps not in this case, but there almost always are. There are a staggering number of victims of abuse who later say, "I saw the warning signs but I convinced myself to ignore them".

And my biggest question is, did she not consider calling the police at any point during this ordeal? Apply for a restraining order? The absence of any mention of the police being called during this narrative strikes me as highly strange. It's difficult for an abuser to abuse when they're in prison, and whether the family is enabling the abuse or not, evidence is evidence.

Again, my point is not to "blame the victim" here. Notwithstanding the apparent lack of calling the police at any point, the victim in this case did not simply sit there and take the abuse. She did something about it, presumably the only thing she felt she could do, which was flee. She, therefore, would not fall into the category of people we're talking about here, namely the sort who could do various things to get out of the situation, yet choose not to.

Also, regardless of whether she "should have known better" or not, the police should have been involved in this situation and those people who could have helped should have. Any decent person with one shred of compassion, mercy or love of justice in their soul would have done everything in their power to assist her EVEN IF they felt she should have known better and initially brought it on herself.

 

[sheeplady]

How long did she know this guy before she married him? Granted she was 18, which is fairly young, but she was an adult. Were there no warning signs at all? Perhaps not in this case, but there almost always are. There are a staggering number of victims of abuse who later say, "I saw the warning signs but I convinced myself to ignore them".

And my biggest question is, did she not consider calling the police at any point during this ordeal? Apply for a restraining order? The absence of any mention of the police being called during this narrative strikes me as highly strange. It's difficult for an abuser to abuse when they're in prison, and whether the family is enabling the abuse or not, evidence is evidence.

Again, my point is not to "blame the victim" here. Notwithstanding the apparent lack of calling the police at any point, the victim in this case did not simply sit there and take the abuse. She did something about it, presumably the only thing she felt she could do, which was flee. She, therefore, would not fall into the category of people we're talking about here, namely the sort who could do various things to get out of the situation, yet choose not to.

Also, regardless of whether she "should have known better" or not, the police should have been involved in this situation and those people who could have helped should have. Any decent person with one shred of compassion, mercy or love of justice in their soul would have done everything in their power to assist her EVEN IF they felt she should have known better and initially brought it on herself.

No, this woman is not my friend- I've never even met her. I actually know someone else involved in the story.

It was a little hard to call the cops because her abuser was a cop; his whole family was filled with cops and town officials. This was small town america, and unfortunately his families were the bigwigs in the town. She also grew up in the town (her family had lived there for generations) and so I'd say it's likely they knew each other as children, but to be honest, I don't know. I do know she was encouraged by everybody to marry this man. I left that part of the story out, because it's irrelevant. What's relevant is that she couldn't find any help anyplace.

Restraining orders only work IF the abuser actually minds the order and stays away. There are far too many people seriously hurt because they relied on a restraining order to protect them. An abuser has already shown a total disregard for the law- a little piece of paper will not keep them from hurting their victim, particularly not if they have now entered "the person will leave so I have to prevent that at any cost" mode.

If you are convinced someone is going to kill you, would you really trust a restraining order to keep you safe?

Also, I am very proud that this woman was strong enough to run, but I really wouldn't expect that of every woman who was beaten. She was incredibly lucky to get out and have everything fall into place. Plenty of women don't get that lucky.

 

[Edward]

I find your assumptions that they are a hetero couple based upon their clothing and hair colors to be offensive.

Maybe they're hipsters of unspecified gender and are shunning society's oppressive use of gender stereotyped color. Or they feel it's ironic or something.

lol Well played!

Used to be you could date a person, take them to a movie, meet the family - progress like two civilized people. We have that now, too, but it's at hyperspeed and if you're not pants down in the Chevy by date#3, one of you is either struggling with their identity, a prude, or both, or worse...

Certainly there is a social expectation nowadays that relationships will move faster in some senses. That said, on the upside we also now live in a world where it is slowly becoming less common to view someone who has never been married by the time they hit their thirties as somehow odd or freakish. At least here in London - I experience plenty of that from even my own generation back in the Old Country. Always seemed bizarre to me that anyone would think you can be "too picky" when it comes to legally involving yourself with someone with a view to it being for life. lol

 

[Undertow]

Anyway, here they were still married 30 years later and the host asked them what the secret was to staying married for so long. They both said, without even looking at each other, "Hard work"Maybe people aren't as prepared to work hard at marriage as they used to?

I think that is a problem. I think older generations took it for granted that you were expected to tough out the hard stuff. Life expectancy was varied - it wasw common for women to die during childbirth and men to die of various work related illnesses. That's not to mention the perpetual wars we've been fighting since 1898. When you weren't sure if you'd even live into your 40's, you made certain to accept what you had and be thankful. As that was passed down to younger generations, technology and safety standards (at least in Western cultures) have improved the chances of staying alive beyond your 60's. People are together longer, forced to "put up" with one another. That takes actual work - it's a mess.

That said, when someone watched their parents fall apart and hate each other, but STAY TOGETHER, they said, "Not for me - when I get like that, I'm leaving the bast*rd." So you have this baby boomer generation who watched their parents go through monumental struggles seemingly unnecessarily and when they hit that roadblock, they cut and run. (No not all babyboomers, obviously). So they raise their kids who watch their parents cut and run....

Certainly there is a social expectation nowadays that relationships will move faster in some senses. That said, on the upside we also now live in a world where it is slowly becoming less common to view someone who has never been married by the time they hit their thirties as somehow odd or freakish. At least here in London - I experience plenty of that from even my own generation back in the Old Country. Always seemed bizarre to me that anyone would think you can be "too picky" when it comes to legally involving yourself with someone with a view to it being for life. lol

Yes! Our generation doesn't run into marriage, and we're not shunned for it either. As I was saying above, I think watching your parents self-destruct has kept alot of our generation from marriage. Most of our generation plans to live into their 70's or older, we know we have some years yet, so we wait until we can meet someone worth marrying. It doesn't necessarily mean we're running loose with our pants down, but it means we're not committing to someone for life unnecessarily. I think that's an improvement.

 

[sheeplady]

Yes! Our generation doesn't run into marriage, and we're not shunned for it either. As I was saying above, I think watching your parents self-destruct has kept alot of our generation from marriage. Most of our generation plans to live into their 70's or older, we know we have some years yet, so we wait until we can meet someone worth marrying. It doesn't necessarily mean we're running loose with our pants down, but it means we're not committing to someone for life unnecessarily. I think that's an improvement.

In the U.S. at least, more Gen Xers (born from about 1965-1981) grew up in families raised by a single parent or had their parents go through a divorce than the generation following (Millenials- born about 1982-2011). They're predicting much higher marriage rates for the Millennial than Gen Xers and much lower divorce rates. Millennials had more intact families than the previous generation and they think this has something to do with it. Gen Xers got hit really hard by extremely high divorce rates of the boomers (born 1947-1964) and the back wave of divorce among the lucky few (silent) generation (born 1924-1946) before them.

I'm a late Gen-Xer, and I can remember growing up that everybody's parents were divorced or at least it seemed that way. The boomer generation had the highest divorce rate of any generation- it's actually dropped considerably for the generations following.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There was a strong movement in the thirties advocating singleness as a worthwhile choice for young working women -- "Live Alone And Like It" was a best-seller in 1936-37 and inspired a whole generation of independent-minded gals. Most of them eventually did marry, but they did it on their own terms. The postwar generation, on the other hand, wanted to get married and get down to business as soon as possible -- my mother was 20 when she married, and felt like she was headed for old-maidhood if she didn't get on the bandwagon.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

In the U.S. at least, more Gen Xers (born from about 1965-1981) grew up in families raised by a single parent or had their parents go through a divorce than the generation following (Millenials- born about 1982-2011). They're predicting much higher marriage rates for the Millennial than Gen Xers and much lower divorce rates. Millennials had more intact families than the previous generation and they think this has something to do with it. Gen Xers got hit really hard by extremely high divorce rates of the boomers (born 1947-1964) and the back wave of divorce among the lucky few (silent) generation (born 1924-1946) before them.

I'm a late Gen-Xer, and I can remember growing up that everybody's parents were divorced or at least it seemed that way. The boomer generation had the highest divorce rate of any generation- it's actually dropped considerably for the generations following.

I remember those years with the high divorce rates. Strangely, when I was growing up in the '70s there were several couples who lived on the same street right next door to each other who all got divorced around the same time. It was almost like some kind of bizarre fad.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

...It was a little hard to call the cops because her abuser was a cop; his whole family was filled with cops and town officials. This was small town america, and unfortunately his families were the bigwigs in the town. She also grew up in the town (her family had lived there for generations) and so I'd say it's likely they knew each other as children, but to be honest, I don't know. I do know she was encouraged by everybody to marry this man. I left that part of the story out, because it's irrelevant. What's relevant is that she couldn't find any help anyplace.

So are you suggesting there wasn't even one honest cop in the entire police force of the town? What about the County Sheriffs or the State Police, if applicable? I have a very close friend who is a cop in small town America and he regularly attends calls where three or even sometimes four different agencies show up. If it's just the old "cops never go against each other" mantra, I find it a little insulting, and frankly it just isn't true. There have been plenty of crooked cops arrested and charged by their fellow cops, and many convictions. For every cop who's willing to cover for a lowlife dirtbag like the criminal you describe, there are probably five more who would love nothing better than to strip off his badge and throw him in the deepest darkest prison not only for being a wife beating piece of scum, but for disgracing the uniform they are proud to wear every day.

Restraining orders only work IF the abuser actually minds the order and stays away. There are far too many people seriously hurt because they relied on a restraining order to protect them. An abuser has already shown a total disregard for the law- a little piece of paper will not keep them from hurting their victim, particularly not if they have now entered "the person will leave so I have to prevent that at any cost" mode.

If you are convinced someone is going to kill you, would you really trust a restraining order to keep you safe?...

The restraining order makes it extremely easy for the cops to arrest and charge a person who violates it. The idea is that all buddy has to do is come too close and he's liable to be arrested and charged; it's one more tool in law enforcement's tool box to use against these criminals. Would I expect a restraining order alone to keep me safe? No, but I'd sure get one anyways and then take other steps to protect myself.

This situation you describe is becoming more and more unusual, to the point where it really loses all applicability to the topic at hand. I don't really think the original poster was even referring to actual abuse, but rather women who stay in bad relationships (short of abuse) with assholes because they seek them out in the first place and then fail to do anything about it after the fact.

Also, I sure hope the person you know did something to assist this poor woman.

 

[Feraud]

I don't think we need to grill sheeplady over a situation she wasn't involved in..:deadhorse