Trench Coat - the 'Ultimate' Thread!

[Bruce Wayne]

16 C equals 60.8 degrees F.

 

[Doctor Damage]

I have never seen a photo of a Sam Browne belt being worn over a trenchcoat or mac (the single-breasted unbelted raincoats) among all the Great War photos I've seen. I really do think the D-rings on trenchcoat belts were intended to substitute for the Sam Browne belt for non-combat situations. In any case, officers removed trenchcoats and macs before entering combat, so the Sam Browne belt would have been worn over the uniform tunic.

 

[Baggers]

Dr. Damage, I haven't either, but neither have I seen any evidence that trench coat belt rings were used as equipment hangers. You make a good point regarding removing it before going into combat. Having the tails of a trench coat swirling about one's legs while charging across No Man's Land doesn't sound like a good idea. And obviously the garment was fitted loosely enough for it to be worn over everything. But plenty of photographs show the waist belt, as worn over the service dress, being capable of another three holes' worth of adjustment outwards, and the '08 and '14 patterns of webbing were capable of easy adjustment of their belts for wear over the great coat. Therefore, in my mind it's no great leap of imagination to think the same couldn't be done over a trench coat if the situation warranted. For long periods of standing around (standing watch in the rain and that sort of thing) the ability to wear the equipment over one's outer garment would seem to make sense in case something were needed in a hurry, say one's service pistol. ("I say, old boy, would you wait a tick while I undo my coat and retrieve my revolver so I can defend myself? Thanks, awfully.")

I still say the rings were more ornamental than utilitarian. Having said that, it doesn't mean they couldn't have been used, but the makeup of the belt itself couldn't possibly have made it suitable for more than the lightest of items. It just wasn't stiff enough.

And using them today from which to hang something like a cell phone is madness. Not only would it look anachronistic, it would be inviting theft on a level much easier than from any shoulder bag. Besides, very few phones are waterproof.

 

[mdove]

GPS is fine....til your batteries die or you signal gets jammed which is why we still teach land navigation using the good old tools: map, protractor and compass. If you can navigate using the old tools you have no need for the tech, which can also fail and get you lost. BTW, the convoy in which Jessica Lynch got lost was depending upon GPS. Which is why I say know what we call folks who depend on GPS...POW's. I taught land nav for the OCS for a good number of years, and never had a student fail.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Dr. Damage, I haven't either, but neither have I seen any evidence that trench coat belt rings were used as equipment hangers. You make a good point regarding removing it before going into combat. Having the tails of a trench coat swirling about one's legs while charging across No Man's Land doesn't sound like a good idea. And obviously the garment was fitted loosely enough for it to be worn over everything. But plenty of photographs show the waist belt, as worn over the service dress, being capable of another three holes' worth of adjustment outwards, and the '08 and '14 patterns of webbing were capable of easy adjustment of their belts for wear over the great coat. Therefore, in my mind it's no great leap of imagination to think the same couldn't be done over a trench coat if the situation warranted. For long periods of standing around (standing watch in the rain and that sort of thing) the ability to wear the equipment over one's outer garment would seem to make sense in case something were needed in a hurry, say one's service pistol. ("I say, old boy, would you wait a tick while I undo my coat and retrieve my revolver so I can defend myself? Thanks, awfully.")

You're absolutely right, of course. Incidently, in photos I've seen many of the single-breasted macs being worn and those would presumably be even more convenient as raingear, although the adjustability of belted trenchcoats would be more suitable for wearing equipment over.

I remember reading that the issue greatcoats, once wet and covered with clinging mud, were said to have become extremely heavy, but the plight of the common soldier in the Great War was largely ignored by the people calling the shots.

I still say the rings were more ornamental than utilitarian. Having said that, it doesn't mean they couldn't have been used, but the makeup of the belt itself couldn't possibly have made it suitable for more than the lightest of items. It just wasn't stiff enough.

Now that I think about it more, I think you're right and we shouldn't attribute too much practical purpose about the details of trenchcoats. For example, the epaulents on trenchcoats are not easy to manipulate and if one wanted to use them to keep equipment belts from sliding off the shoulder they should be more like greatcoat epaulets, i.e. a single piece of cloth sewn in at the outer shoulder, with inboard button (which is much easier to manipulate but does the same job).

And given how flamboyant and varied in quality and shape officer's (privately purchased) tunics were in the Great War, there's probably no good reason why their (privately purchased) outerwear would have to be utterly practical in all respects!

 

[Doctor Damage]

General Mark Clark in WWII wearing a trenchcoat (and flotation belt).

 

[Baggers]

General Mark Clark in WWII wearing a trenchcoat (and flotation belt).

That's a good one. Note the embroidered rank stars on the epaulettes. Which, by the way, button properly at the top of the strap, not the bottom. It should be noted that in the United States Army, according to the 1942 edition of the The Officers' Guide, the trench coat was not an authorized garment. But, generals being generals...

 

[mdove]

generally wore what they wanted in those days. And being a 3 star, well who was going to jump on your ass.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Michael Caine wore an Aquascutum trench in the classic 1971 British film Get Carter. Recommended viewing, for sure.







Here's a behind-the-scenes photo from the film's production. Note the interesting waxed cotton motorcycle jacket worn by the guy at far left behind the camera.



Apparently one of the two coats used in the movie was auctioned for ₤7,500. Here's the photo from the auction catalogue.

 

[Fifty150]

The episode of Seinfeld with the "belt-less trench coat" was just on. Anyone see it?

 

[mdove]

I have just purchased 2 Burberrys off the bay for about $150. total. One has been delivered, cleaned and off to the seamstress. It was missing the liner and wool collar. Has minimal wear around the cuffs but getting them shortened about an inch and a couple of inches off the length. The other arrived today and needs to go to the dry cleaner. It has a button liner and will work in the first one I bought. I do have a question for other Loungers here: the 2nd purchased has a couple of features and hope you can help. The coat will button either left over right or right over left. I think my coat cannot make up its mind if it wants to be a man coat or a girl coat. Second feature, The is a small exposed button towards the bottom of the coat when buttoned right over left, there is a similar button on the interior of the interior of the left flap. Can any members help me out here as to any information on these two features. Thanks

 

[Doctor Damage]

There is a small exposed button towards the bottom of the coat when buttoned right over left, there is a similar button on the interior of the interior of the left flap. Can any members help me out here as to any information on these two features. Thanks

Really old vintage Burberry and Aquascutum coats had a small button on the skirts which would allow the skirts to be buttoned closed when the coat was fully closed. It's roughly equivalent in purpose to the button(s) which fastens the rear vent. The button was matched by a tab with buttonhole located underneath the overlapping skirt (which incidently should help you decide if your coat is male or female). It's a feature which disappeared long ago. Here's a photo:

 

[mdove]

DD, thanks for the info, about how old is the coat?

 

[Doctor Damage]

DD, thanks for the info, about how old is the coat?

Don't know. I'm not an expert, but I noticed that it showed up on various models, without any consistency (although it was standard on the defunct Burberry Trench 21).

 

[Doctor Damage]

More images from Get Carter (1971).

 

[Doctor Damage]

I recently purchased a used USAF trench coat (via an AAAC member – thanks!) for use as a cheap raincoat to avoid paying the cost of a new trench coat from one of the major brands. I paid $19.99 plus shipping costs. I have two luxury trench coats, both made for Harry Rosen, but I wanted something that I wouldn’t need to worry too much about damaging and something that was genuinely water resistant. This coat seemed to fit requirements and the price was right.

I am greatly impressed with the quality of this coat and think it would make a great entry level trench coat for young men in particular. The outer shell is a tough material, not luxurious, but tightly woven and clearly water resistant—it strongly resembles the material used in a vintage London Fog raincoat which I have, so I’m pretty certain it will perform well in rain. The stitching, seams, and details are excellent and I am particularly impressed that all the major buttons have keeper buttons on the back. Each of the buttons is correctly place (no misalignments) and the lapels can be buttoned right up to the throat. The coat came with a zip-out liner made from a furry synthetic material with a stretch material for the sleeves. This liner is a bit too thick for comfort and fortuitously the dry cleaners shrank it—I shall remake it with a thin piece of wool or something. The photos below illustrate one of these coats (not mine, but identical in details and mine isn’t wrinkled).



There are a few shortcomings: the rear vent has no way to close it up, and there is no throat latch or flap to keep the collar closed when flipped up. Neither points are deal-killers in my opinion, especially at this price. Another shortcoming is the length of the belt: thin men will find the belt long enough, but for my middle-aged middle the belt is several inches too short, so if I can source some cloth I will get a seamstress to make me a longer one (I’ve noticed in photos on eBay that belts on these coats always seem short, so perhaps it’s normal).

Sizing needs a comment: I wear a size 42L suit and I bought this coat in a size 42L. The fit is perfect over a sweater, but I would not be able to get a civilian-cut suit underneath this coat, due to the super-high armholes. In any case, this coat is rather “casual” so higher armholes are better. I would say “slim fit” is a good characterization, although the L length is generously long so I wouldn’t worry about length. Younger men who haven’t thickened up yet would find this coat ideal (and a nice alternative to wearing a pea jacket).

Overall, I’m happy with this purchase, and aside from a few shortcomings, it’s a nice garment which should perform well in wet weather once the snow passes!

I recommend picking one up off eBay: search for “all weather coat” and realize they were made by different manufacturers, including Sterlingwear, and usually in a 65% poly blend which is ideal for wet weather (mine happens to be a 50/50 blend). The USAF issued these with 8 buttons on the front, while the USMC issued ones in a pewter colour with 6 buttons on the front (now harder to find). I also see that Sterlingwear Boston, the company which makes the iconic USN pea jackets, offers the USMC trench coat in black which they call the “Stefan”—that’s the best choice if you want a brand new one, and one of those is next on my list.

 

[brothelcreeper]

Picked up a navy, raglan sleeve burberry classic trench in paris for 84€ in august last year. Condition is about a week's wear off mint and has a removable wool lining.

Probably my finest 2nd-hand shopping hour.

 

[guygardner]

The episode of Seinfeld with the "belt-less trench coat" was just on. Anyone see it?

Classic episode. Of course, any episode with Frank Costanza is great.

 

[mdove]

Morty invented "The Executive", not Frank. Morty and Cosmo were going to go into business together.

 

[guygardner]

Yeah, I know...Go back and watch the second part again. Frank is in the episode. George sells his "cruisewear" to a thrift store owner, who burns the stuff when he finds out it has moths.