Toppers Unite

[LordBest]

Beautiful toppers, Mr Huang. I really ought to get morning dress made so I have something to wear mine with.

 

[bowlerman]

Also, my current silk topper collection (not inc. opera hats):

great hats there! What defines an opera hat?

 

[Charlie Huang]

Where do you get all of your top hats? I have already searched for long but every hat has been too little, a couple ones have been slightly too small to be worn in the traditional way and one has been too big.

My size is 7 1/4 and I want one out of silk and not a modern one out of mumbo-jumbo.

They're all from eBay. Prices I paid for them from L-R: £32 (size 6 7/8), £36 (7), £200 (plus £100 renovation) (7)


TBH, 7 1/4 UK is just within the range of affordability (at least £100-200); 7 3/8 and you'll be paying at least £300-500. Mind you, I'm interested in your too big one as I have several friends who have large heads that want silk toppers!

 

[Charlie Huang]

What defines an opera hat?

Collapsibility.

 

[dhermann1]

That, plus a magnificent voice.

 

[dhermann1]

But, to be slightly serious, the opera hat, being made of silk fabric, will not have the wonderful shine that a regular topper will get.
I don't have any pics, but the collapsible hat has a stiff wire spring that runs around the inside, between the outer and inner surfaces. If you compress it in the proper manner it flattens right down. Then you pop it out (again in the proper manner) and it pops back up again. Cool trick. It makes them easier to stack in the hat check room at the opera (or wherever else you might roam).

 

[Charlie Huang]

Opera hats can be made of three types of fabric: merino cloth, silk grosgrain or silk satin. Any of these are suitable for white tie. How good it looks depends on the height and shape of the crown. A good high bell crown looks really good but a shorter crown with not much of a bell shape looks more like a costume hat than an opera hat. A good brim helps as well.

 

[dhermann1]

That makes me wonder, would you wear an opera hat during the day time, say with a morning suit? I'm thinking not. Also, you wouldn't wear a felt topper with a morning suit, right? When, if ever, would a black felt top hat be appropriate, other than if you're a door man?

 

[Charlie Huang]

That makes me wonder, would you wear an opera hat during the day time, say with a morning suit? I'm thinking not. Also, you wouldn't wear a felt topper with a morning suit, right? When, if ever, would a black felt top hat be appropriate, other than if you're a door man?

You should never wear opera hats during the day time. They are only collapsible for one reason: convenience when at the opera/theatre because you would be mostly indoors and a full high silk would be cumbersome to hold, store or check in. There is no reason why you should wear an opera hat in broad daylight outdoors unless you're ignorant or what we British call a 'cheapskate'.

As for fur toppers, depends really on what fur it is. Fur melusine with a directional nap can be worn for anything (it tries to mimic silk/beaver plush). Flat fur felt: only in grey and during the day. Black flat wool/fur felt is what we call a 'funeral hat' and is the choice for fancy dress wearers, funeral directors, doormen, etc because it is the cheapest version available (with a soft shell and often made badly).

 

[Charlie Huang]

Gah! I'm thinking of leaving my topper as it is with the moth damaged underbrim as the potential costs for refurbishment is currently too high to make it worth my while. I just used a black marker to darken then exposed bits so they do not look noticable when the hat is worn and leave it at that. Probably replace the sweatband at a later date myself (meaning to do this to my other topper as well anyway because the sweat is too thick so causing it to lower by half a size) as that I can do as I am skilled enough already.

 

[Mr. Garrulus]

They're all from eBay. Prices I paid for them from L-R: £32 (size 6 7/8), £36 (7), £200 (plus £100 renovation) (7)


TBH, 7 1/4 UK is just within the range of affordability (at least £100-200); 7 3/8 and you'll be paying at least £300-500. Mind you, I'm interested in your too big one as I have several friends who have large heads that want silk toppers!

Hmm, I'm not so sure about buying clothes or hats from eBay, I want to try them first so I know if they fit me and how I look in them.

The big hat was already gone when I went back to the flea-market, typically.

There was one but too small for me and it also went to some lucky guy(?) during this week but the hat box for it is still left. :eusa_doh:

Also if I have understood the right way to wear a topper is to have it slightly tilted forwards and to the side? It isn't very correct to have it tilted back.

 

[Charlie Huang]

TBH, finding toppers from a vintage or antique shop is just as much about luck as on eBay (prices could be inflated as well). Fit is indeed everything but as long as the sizing is correct, you can have it reconformed anyways (if you are in the uK that is).

The correct way is dead straight. Having it slightly tilted (forward and/or to the side) is a Hollywoodism and rather caddish (also alters the fit slightly as the conformature takes a dead straight head measurement, not a tilted one). Tilting it back is also wrong and it looks amateurish and says you don't know how to wear one elegantly (this case is also true for mortarboards when worn back to front).

 

[Mr. Garrulus]

That was some interesting info, when googling I have always found it should be tilted. Thanks!

What would we do without your expert knowledge?

 

[Fly Boy]

Got a cracker for £45 recently in Coldstream. I'm away from home just now but I'll try to put some pics up on the weekend.

 

[Charlie Huang]

That was some interesting info, when googling I have always found it should be tilted. Thanks!

What would we do without your expert knowledge?

You see, I have never seen or read proper evidence to why it should be worn tilted.

One logic is that tilting it avoids a dead straight line but why is that bad in itself? The reason why wearing toppers look good is it that it makes you look taller by having a dead straight line and tilting destroys that line and makes it less formal. Tricornes and bicornes are never worn tilted and a silk hat as a formal hat ought not be worn tilted. It just looks like you've come out of a street fight and have put your topper back on in a hurry and wonky.

Also, clarity of tilting back. When you wear it properly there is a slight natural tilt backwards (around 5-8 degrees or so) as with all hats. E.g.:

The bad tilt I am on about is when you tilt it back to an extreme degree that the forehead is exposed and it looks like it is too small or almost falling off. E.g.:

The brim should sit no more than 1" above the brow line.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Currently replacing the sweatband of my Truefitt silk topper that Patey reblocked for me and replaced the original sweat with one too thick causing it to strink a size so it was a 6 7/8 rather than the original 7. I've finished making the new sweat (using roan which is thinner) and now just need to sew it onto the hat. I'm trying to keep the details as close to the original sweat as possible from what I can remember. I will write a blog about it afterwards.

Here are some pics:

Patey sweat on top of the new sweat. See how shorter the Patey is compared to the one I've made (by at least 5/8" which is a full size). Yes, the original was rather wide.

Here is the completed sweat slipped in to check fit.

I've tried it on with the sweat slipped in and it fits perfectly.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Finished:

 

[Brad Bowers]

Looks like a great job! I should send you mine to replace. And if you only did edge binding...

Brad

 

[Mr. Garrulus]

I finally got myself a top hat from 20's-30's(?) with a hat box included, or did I make the mistake and bought a riding top hat?

The crown is 13,5cm (5 1/4 inches) tall and the inner circumference is 57,5cm (Either I have measured wrong, it has maybe shrunk or has it been a measured work? Anyway a 58cm equals to 7 1/8 UK and 7 1/4 USA, which are my size).

The sweatband is "Real Russian Leather" and is at some points loose from the lining. The hat is on the limit of not fitting even when the cork is removed but I guess I'll have to endure the slight pressure and have it a little bit higher (Don't worry, not too high though).

 

[Charlie Huang]

Looks like a great job! I should send you mine to replace. And if you only did edge binding...

Brad

I could but not for less than £50! It is a very time consuming job...

Edge binding? Do you mean brim binding. I suppose I could do that but I would have to source black silk grosgrain ribbon which I haven't been able to do yet (I have source white silk grosgrain (not of high vintage quailty in terms of ribbing) but I'd need to dye that black). It would be just as tricky and time consuming.

I finally got myself a top hat from 20's-30's(?) with a hat box included, or did I make the mistake and bought a riding top hat?

The crown is 13,5cm (5 1/4 inches) tall and the inner circumference is 57,5cm (Either I have measured wrong, it has maybe shrunk or has it been a measured work? Anyway a 58cm equals to 7 1/8 UK and 7 1/4 USA, which are my size).

The sweatband is "Real Russian Leather" and is at some points loose from the lining. The hat is on the limit of not fitting even when the cork is removed but I guess I'll have to endure the slight pressure and have it a little bit higher (Don't worry, not too high though).

It is not a riding topper as that would have a quilted sweatband with a drawstring band.

The condition looks fair.