Toppers Unite

[jonbuilder]

I recent brought this top hat from the estate of a large grape growing family, which established his vineyards about 1900. I know nothing about these hats hoping I might get some feedback. The hat did not have a box but looks to be in almost new condition. I hear about beaver and silk being used to descript top hats. The exterior appears to be a long nap smooth hair. The direction of the hair on the top of the hat changes if brushed so I think the hat is made from beaver? The hat crown and brim is stiff. The hat fits like about size7. I generally wear 7/1/4 but I notice from some of the pictures that Top hats are wore higher on the head than the modern way fedoras are worn just the above the ears. I have the hat on a vintage block still hat stretcher do not know what the result to expect. If I can’t get the hat to fit properly I will flip it. Is this hat what I referred to as an opera Hat?

 

[dhermann1]

I'm not sure, but I don't think you can stretch a topper like you can a fedora. You're right, it looks like new. And it's gorgeous. I'm sure the real top hat experts, like Garrett and Charlie Huang, will be able to definitively tell you all you need too know about this hat. My guess is that it's silk, and just needs a proper brushing and polishing to be brought to a state of gleaming perfection. If you could measure the inner circumference it might be good. And of you do decide to sell, I'll be first in line to make an offer.

 

[jonbuilder]

You are correct dhermann, I was not able to stretch the hat and will be listing it in the classified tread. I guess little research is in order to determine the market price. Any excuse to send time learning new and interesting about vintage hats.
The interior measures are 7-3/4 x 6-3/8. Brim is 2" front and back where it does not curl in, the crown is 5-1/4 high without any taper to the crown

 

[brspiritus]

I found this one on E-bay... too bad I don't have the funds right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Black-Silk-Fur-Top-Hat-w-Case-Magician-Dressage-/200561502971?pt=US_Hats&hash=item2eb265aafb

 

[Qirrel]

As for stretching a top hat, it is not possible to change the size. However if the circumference fits you, the hat can be shaped to your head by heating it in an oven or by a hand held heater (from the inside of the hat) and then stretching in a block-stretcher. When left to cool on the stretcher it will harden and stay in the new shape. I have tested this on an old ragged top hat, and it worked well. The sweatband has to be taken out before the hat can be stretched, though.

 

[Topper]

so I think the hat is made from beaver?

No- silk plush covering.

Is this hat what I referred to as an opera Hat?

No - Opera Hats are collapsible, though you still may wear it to the opera with White tie, or Black tie & cape.

 

[bowlerman]

Just thought I'd share--
I ran across a true beauty recently in a nearby antique shop-- thought to be from around 1870s, with that beautiful long beaver spun finish (not silk) and a jaw-dropping 6 -color horsehair band, probably made by an Oglalla-Sioux Native American.
Too bad it wasn't my size or price range!

 

[dhermann1]

No- silk plush covering.


No - Opera Hats are collapsible, though you still may wear it to the opera with White tie, or Black tie & cape.

Speaking of black tie and cape, does it have to be an opera cape? Can it be a black Inverness cape?

 

[Charlie Huang]

I recent brought this top hat from the estate of a large grape growing family, which established his vineyards about 1900. I know nothing about these hats hoping I might get some feedback. The hat did not have a box but looks to be in almost new condition. I hear about beaver and silk being used to descript top hats. The exterior appears to be a long nap smooth hair. The direction of the hair on the top of the hat changes if brushed so I think the hat is made from beaver? The hat crown and brim is stiff. The hat fits like about size7. I generally wear 7/1/4 but I notice from some of the pictures that Top hats are wore higher on the head than the modern way fedoras are worn just the above the ears. I have the hat on a vintage block still hat stretcher do not know what the result to expect. If I can’t get the hat to fit properly I will flip it. Is this hat what I referred to as an opera Hat?

TBH, the topper is far too small by how high it sits on your head.

It is silk and not beaver.

You cannot stretch a hard shell hat. Trying to do so by force could break the brim.

The hat looks to be in almost perfect condition. Depending on the size (6 7/8 UK by my calculations) it should be worth around £100-125 and no more.

 

[dhermann1]

Jonbuilder, please measure the inside circumference. Thanks.

 

[jonbuilder]

Jonbuilder, please measure the inside circumference. Thanks.

The circumference is 22-1/8"- I sent you a PM. Charlie thanks for your feed back I agree the hat is not going to work for myself. I fogot to mention I found the hat in Napa Valley

 

[Charlie Huang]

I went to Patey's yesterday to look inside their new shop. I was very impressed by the fur melusine toppers. Unlike the fur toppers sold by Christys' et al their ones were very thick and heavy (more or less country weight and could be stood upon) and the trimmings and brim curls were more or less similar to vintage and being hand sewn and finished (though not as tightly stitched as old hats). Their bowlers were of same magnitude in terms of quality. Very expensive though as they make them in their Dulwich workshops using the goss layering technique: £500-600.

They also had a good selection of silk toppers (restored) and they go for around £1000-1500.

Was very tempted to order a bowler that day but I couldn't afford it!

 

[Topper]

Speaking of black tie and cape, does it have to be an opera cape? Can it be a black Inverness cape?

Depends on how cold you are, inverness traditionally warmer and thicker wool, opera capes often shorter ( though doesn't have to be) and lighter, traditionally if lived city or just outside the theatre waiting a cabbie be great for. Inverness better if long cold walk home! ( and also if one had a hankering for Scottish dress!)

Not everything is based on fashion or tradition. Often just good old practicality.

 

[dhermann1]

I kind of assumed that. I have an Inverness cape that I got from a place in Scotland, www.misterantony.com . It's lightweight black nylon, with a waterproof backing, designed, actually, for pipers. I've worn it with my tailcoat, and looked and felt pretty cool. But I wondered if I was really being "correct".

 

[Charlie Huang]

Won this today:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270702805981&autorefresh=true

When I get it I will take it to Patey's to replace the underbrim and sweatband then give it a good polish.

 

[Charlie Huang]

I kind of assumed that. I have an Inverness cape that I got from a place in Scotland, www.misterantony.com . It's lightweight black nylon, with a waterproof backing, designed, actually, for pipers. I've worn it with my tailcoat, and looked and felt pretty cool. But I wondered if I was really being "correct".

It will be correct, if it was made of wool and lined with silk/rayon...

 

[Charlie Huang]

Topper has arrived!

There is extensive moth damage to the underbrim and the sweat. Was about to hand it to Patey's when I collected it in London from a friend but they shut up shop at 2pm on Saturday (which i didn't know about) so I missed them!

 

[Charlie Huang]

I contacted Hetherington Hats today to see what they'll say (and charge) for the reconditioning of the underbrim and sweatband replacement. Was I in for a shock!

They accorded me the 'full works' which would include replacing literally everything (sweat, riband, underbrim, lining, etc) which is overkill as I only want the underbrim and sweatband to be messed with. Total cost: £580! Seriously, I could buy a completely new one, nay, several in fact for that price! Even Lock's won't charge such an outrageous price such as that!

Patey's was next and they said it would be £95 + VAT but they can't save the silk brim binding (which I want preserved as I don't want it replaced with rayon or some other artificial non-sense). Still waiting to see if they do have pure silk brim binding ribbon or it's a no.

If all else fails I might as well keep the underbrim that way and maybe replace the sweatband myself in the future.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Also, my current silk topper collection (not inc. opera hats):

 

[Mr. Garrulus]

Where do you get all of your top hats? I have already searched for long but every hat has been too little, a couple ones have been slightly too small to be worn in the traditional way and one has been too big.

My size is 7 1/4 and I want one out of silk and not a modern one out of mumbo-jumbo.