LizzieMaine
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It's a pity nobody ever made a pinup of Frances Perkins.
That's the thing. Modern culture is telling girls and young women it's perfectly fine and normal to do things like that, and providing them with all sorts of role models telling them that their function in life, first and foremost, is to be sexual playthings -- doesn't matter if they're wearing seamed stockings and a halter top or whatever the modern alternative is, the message is the same. And it's telling boys and young men that they're perfectly entitled to expect girls and young women to act that way. That's not exactly a path to a healthy view of sex for either side, especially when the kids in question are too young to fully understand the emotional consequences. (Oh wait, I forgot, modern culture doesn't believe sex *has* emotional consequences.)
In the privacy of your own home is one thing. I have no problem with that. But the whole mentality of Girls Gone Wild (which you can also see on teenager's FB pages) is what I find appalling.
Even female athletes don't make much of a splash unless there is sex involved.
My reason for posting the article, from which I frankly did not glean all this meaning, was mainly: "Here's a quick-read story about people who like vintage."
This. A lot of women who have really accomplished something, are still evaluated by how they look and with whom they sleep. Their competency is an afterthought.
It's a pity nobody ever made a pinup of Frances Perkins.
To say nothing of Edna May Oliver.
it's not me you have to convince of that. It's modern society. When modern society drools "whoooooa, hawwwwwwwt," is it really impressed with what the woman in question has accomplished? Does it even entertain the possibility that she might actually *have* accomplishments, or any other aspects to her identity aside from her sexuality? That's the attitude that i'm opposed to, and i'm strongly opposed to a society that insists that any woman who questions such an attitude must somehow be in league with the taliban. Is the best we can expect from modern culture that "at least we aren't being stoned?"
the main thesis of levy's book isn't criticising the idea that women have taken charge of their own sexuality, it's to argue that quite the opposite has actually occured -- that in fact a marketing-driven society has bamboozled women into redefining their sexuality exclusively in male terms, thus the appeal to raunch and frat-boy coarseness disguised as "empowerment." hence the title, "female chauvinist pigs."
That's the thing. Modern culture is telling girls and young women it's perfectly fine and normal to do things like that, and providing them with all sorts of role models telling them that their function in life, first and foremost, is to be sexual playthings -- doesn't matter if they're wearing seamed stockings and a halter top or whatever the modern alternative is, the message is the same.
That's the problem right there. The growing "pornification" of society which had previously considered such business for red light districts and girlie mags are now, to quote the gal from the article, "classy"...
Great article Dad!
Pulled from it:
"Recent issues of Vogue, Allure and W highlighted similar looks: sunnily updated, hypercolorized pinup shots that are the fashion equivalent of comfort food. They draw on a pervasive nostalgia for “more innocent days when sexuality wasn’t portrayed as so hard core and in your face,” said Edward Enninful, the fashion and style director of W. “People kind of miss that today.”"
Do they? I hope so
As I always say when such topics come up, read "Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture" by Ariel Levy for a look at just how serious the problem really is. A lot of very smart women in recent years have been conned into being willing participants in their own degradation.
“It’s a niche, but it’s a good-sized niche,” Mr. Glaser said. “If it becomes too mainstream, it will turn off a lot of people. These young ladies want to think of themselves as free spirits.”
I thought that was an interesting quote.
I mean this sincerely - does anyone here on the lounge think future generations of women will find "stars" like Jenna Jameson refined and modest? Is it possible for us to disintegrate to that point?
I honestly think many of the "stars" today will be forgotten with time - they simply don't have the appeal, and therefore, the staying power of the old Hollywood stars. I don't just mean the likes of Jenna Jameson but actresses like Jessica Biel/Alba, Sarah Michelle Geller etc. - they just don't have the mystique of stars like Monroe, Crawford, Hepburn (both of them), Hayworth etc. They are just not in the same league.....
I'm kind of confused...
I just thought that she would rather dress like this:
Instead of this:
Isn't that a good thing?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't read into the story that she wanted to be an actual stripper [huh] Besides, how many women on this very forum have cut Bettie bangs? Does that mean they're objectifying themselves too?
That's a very good point. While such things certainly existed in the Era they've been given far more significance by modern era subculturists than they ever had in their own time: the average American in 1947 hadn't the slightest idea who Bettie Page was: she was merely an anonymous figure in those "Ten Saucy Poses For A Dollar" photo packs advertised in the back pages of the Police Gazette. Gypsy Rose Lee was well-known and even mildly respectable, but it was because she made sure people understood she wasn't just another girl taking her clothes off for money: she was a published author of books and magazine articles, and held her own on "Information Please" alongside FPA, John Kiernan and Oscar Levant. She made a point of *forcing* people to see that she was more than the sum of her Parts.
I'm not saying anything against Miss Page, by the way -- she did what she did for her own reasons and got out of it when she'd had enough -- but by the same token I wouldn't want my daughter doing that for a living. I don't criticize the people who do pinups or strip or whatever -- what I question are the social forces that convince them that they want to do those things.
She would be boring and lifeless, like she is in all her interviews. lol
Seriously, I don't have anything against her -- I just don't see the hype. She's also been in pornographic films, which makes her no classier than Jenna!
I am going to add here that I have personally known a few strippers, a former prostitute, and pornography actress. I have absolutely no problems with any of these things. Talking to these women about their professions and lives really changed my mind about certain things.
I think the problem is too many modern parents don't think the messages sent are any big deal -- either because they think it's all a big joke, or they assume the kid has the sense on her own to understand the difference between reality and market-created illusions.