The School of Hard Knox

[Bill Hughes]

I have had a couple with Comfit sweats and I saw no evidence of foam having ever been there in the rippled area.

Thanks for the confirmation. The foam material was disintegrating when I started messing with it so I pulled it out. I still have to clean up around the glued areas.

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

I do believe that the foam was part of the comfit "system". The foam was supposed to conform to your head along with the corrugated sweatband.

But as you've found out the material doesnt usually stand the test of time so well, so I do believe alot of them were taken out by the original owners.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/knox-fifteen.12841/

 

[deadlyhandsome]

So here are the detailed pictures of the Knox 25 I bought last week. Once I put a brush to it and a bit of steam it became a real looker. I'm really happy with this hat. The brim is 3" and the crow is 5 3/4" open. I put the diamond dent in it. The ribbon is 2" and it has the nicer wind trolly with the Knox logo. I've never owned one with this "COMFIT" feature on the back of the hatband. A quick web search shows the patent for that was released in 1952. There is a piece of spongy material behind the accordion section. Is that just a shim or is it supposed to be there? It is tacked down with drops of glue. The size tag is different than I've seen on my other 1950s Knox hats. Also I've never seen the reorder label written out like this one.

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My Comfit Knox 20 still had the spongy material intact and looks identical to yours.

Your Knox is a looker! Wow, the felt, the gills, just everything about it brings a smile. Nicely done.


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[steur]

So here are the detailed pictures of the Knox 25 I bought last week. Once I put a brush to it and a bit of steam it became a real looker. I'm really happy with this hat. The brim is 3" and the crow is 5 3/4" open. I put the diamond dent in it. The ribbon is 2" and it has the nicer wind trolly with the Knox logo. I've never owned one with this "COMFIT" feature on the back of the hatband. A quick web search shows the patent for that was released in 1952. There is a piece of spongy material behind the accordion section. Is that just a shim or is it supposed to be there? It is tacked down with drops of glue. The size tag is different than I've seen on my other 1950s Knox hats. Also I've never seen the reorder label written out like this one.

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Magnificent hat, Bill. Ticks all the boxes (except size).

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

So here are the detailed pictures of the Knox 25 I bought last week. Once I put a brush to it and a bit of steam it became a real looker. I'm really happy with this hat. The brim is 3" and the crow is 5 3/4" open. I put the diamond dent in it. The ribbon is 2" and it has the nicer wind trolly with the Knox logo. I've never owned one with this "COMFIT" feature on the back of the hatband. A quick web search shows the patent for that was released in 1952. There is a piece of spongy material behind the accordion section. Is that just a shim or is it supposed to be there? It is tacked down with drops of glue. The size tag is different than I've seen on my other 1950s Knox hats. Also I've never seen the reorder label written out like this one.

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This hat could easily be one of my favorites.
Drop dead gorgeous!!
B

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

 

[Rockwater]

Another 20 to the thread. This is in super condition and has the 50’s tag.
Interesting to me, the crown height says 4 1/8 and the hat is 5 1/8 open.
Wondering if they measured the creased height, used up old tags around the time of the label change, or just a typo.

 

[Rmccamey]

There was a vintage Knox straw Open Road clone on eBay last week. Anyone know anything about these?

 

[TheOldFashioned]

Just took possession of this Knox Fifteen derby:

Super fast delivery on this Knox Fifteen derby, which is off to the deep freeze. Not sure which is colder, that or outside, as winter has finally made its presence known in these parts.

Possesses a bit of mystery to it. The factory tag indicates it is from the 40s, but the liner appears to be glued in. Size tag as well as price/sales tag are missing, although obviously this should have been $15.

There also feels like there is some kind of insert between the liner tip and the top of the crown. I discovered this when I found a very small depression on top. When I (gently) pushed it made a popping sound. Plastic or cardboard-like insert perhaps? The felt itself isn't as stiff as my unlined 30s Stetson Select derby, but it's definitely not soft on top ala a homburg. Rather, somewhere in between such that it is slightly malleable but doesn't hold a shape and pops back into place (aside from the depression).

I tried looking for other examples of a Knox Fifteen derby and only found reference to one other. It was posted by @Dinerman over a decade ago, but the pics have been lost to broken Photobucket syndrome.

If anyone can help unravel this puzzle please feel free to chime in. I humbly defer to the collectives expertise.

 

[Bill Hughes]

Another 20 to the thread. This is in super condition and has the 50’s tag.
Interesting to me, the crown height says 4 1/8 and the hat is 5 1/8 open.
Wondering if they measured the creased height, used up old tags around the time of the label change, or just a typo.
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Perfection!

 

[alanfgag]

If anyone can help unravel this puzzle please feel free to chime in. I humbly defer to the collectives expertise.

I think you have the age of the hat spot on. Liners were sometimes removed for cleaning at a hat shop - often taped back in place, but glue could have been used also. A Borsalino stiff hat that I acquired recently has the liner secured with tape. I had thought this to be the result of a past cleaning, but when I removed it I found that tape had also been used to secure the neat layout of very tight pleats in the liner. I think this tape and likely the tape securing the liner to the crown were both original. Makes sense, perhaps, as an alternative to blind stitching the liner into the stiff felt.

The crown of the liner likely has stiff paper sewn to it to keep it flat. I had a Stetson derby from the 1940s that was finished in the same way. Also the Borsalino mentioned above has the same finishing method, which I had a good look at when I removed the liner. This stiffened top panel had tabs attached that were taped to the top of the crown to keep the liner in place. Sorry I neglected to take photos when I had it apart.

The hats I have handled that are later "derby revival" period (1950s-60s) have been quite soft - you could crease the crown if you cared too. I think yours is from the tail end of the stiff hat era rather than from the dawn of the revival. It looks like a great find.

 

[TheOldFashioned]

I think you have the age of the hat spot on. Liners were sometimes removed for cleaning at a hat shop - often taped back in place, but glue could have been used also. A Borsalino stiff hat that I acquired recently has the liner secured with tape. I had thought this to be the result of a past cleaning, but when I removed it I found that tape had also been used to secure the neat layout of very tight pleats in the liner. I think this tape and likely the tape securing the liner to the crown were both original. Makes sense, perhaps, as an alternative to blind stitching the liner into the stiff felt.

The crown of the liner likely has stiff paper sewn to it to keep it flat. I had a Stetson derby from the 1940s that was finished in the same way. Also the Borsalino mentioned above has the same finishing method, which I had a good look at when I removed the liner. This stiffened top panel had tabs attached that were taped to the top of the crown to keep the liner in place. Sorry I neglected to take photos when I had it apart.

The hats I have handled that are later "derby revival" period (1950s-60s) have been quite soft - you could crease the crown if you cared too. I think yours is from the tail end of the stiff hat era rather than from the dawn of the revival. It looks like a great find.

Thank you for this detailed response. It is quite informative and helpful. I will have to go back and see if it is indeed tape that is holding in the liner. It definitely isn't stitched in so I just assumed it had to be glue. Yet another newbie mistake on my part.

I tried searching both through here and with Google's assistance, but after a couple hours I failed to find any relevant information or comparable examples owned by others. This forum is such a vast treasure trove of information, but I do wish it was more easily searchable. I try to read as much as I can and find what I am looking for, but that doesn't always happen. As such, people like me are lucky for such knowledgeable contributing members such as yourself, so again, thank you.

 

[alanfgag]

I tried searching both through here and with Google's assistance, but after a couple hours I failed to find any relevant information or comparable examples owned by others.

Searching using the Lounge's search function is frustrating. Do a Google search with your query and include "Fedora Lounge" in the wording. You'll pull up all sorts of interesting stuff.

Here are a couple of photos of derbies/bowlers with the paper stiffener attached to the top of the liner. The Stetson is from the same era as your hat. The Borsalino is less certain - I think older, but good be contemporary also.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Missed out on the Knox Forty early this morning or late last night. I must have been tired. I’d put it on the eBay thread but it might be better appreciated here!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Fu...Edwards-Knox-7-1-8-034-Gorgeous-/302990719533

I got that one, Daniel. Smoothest felt.

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[Just Daniel]

Sweet! Another one for the museum good Doctor!

Now the search for the Knox 100....

I got that one, Daniel. Smoothest felt.

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[Frunobulax]

1950s Premier Knox Westlite. 5 1/2" crown, 2 5/8" brim. When warmer weather rolls around, it will probably get a bath to get rid of some of the staining (hopefully). The unfortunate victim of moth nibbles (OK, munching) just under the ribbon at the base of the crown. I'll pretend those aren't there because I can't readily see them.

 

[rclark]

1950s Premier Knox Westlite. 5 1/2" crown, 2 5/8" brim. When warmer weather rolls around, it will probably get a bath to get rid of some of the staining (hopefully). The unfortunate victim of moth nibbles (OK, munching) just under the ribbon at the base of the crown. I'll pretend those aren't there because I can't readily see them.

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Nice get!

 

[Frunobulax]

Nice get!

Thanks, Rick! Wasn't it a Westlite we both were outbid on a month or so ago?

Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[rclark]

Thanks, Rick! Wasn't it a Westlite we both were outbid on a month or so ago?

Sent directly from my mind to yours.

Yes it was! I did come across another one and am in fact wearing it now:

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[Frunobulax]

Picked up this Knox Premier last week and finally got it cleaned up for presenting. The model is "The Madison" as embossed on the sweatband, sold by Allerton Hatters in the Bronx.

Very nice, dense, medium weight felt. 5 1/2" OC and 2 1/2" overwelt brim w/ visible stitching. The sweat looks great, but is actually pretty stiff. Despite that, I was able to get one shot of the only inner label I could find. A simple black and white label with the size and a space to put the reorder number (~1/2" x 1 1/2")