The quality of a suit

[Qirrel]

1912 suit: (Sorry about the flash, but it really gets too dark otherwise. (White walls))

 

[herringbonekid]

Qirrel, i buy vintage fabric whenever i find it but haven't come across any vintage heavy twill (45 degree grooved) lining yet of that exact type. would love to find some.

Fidena, to reproduce a suit like that the right sort of fabric (inside and out) is crucial in my opinion. it would also help to have a suit on hand to closely copy the finish and details from.
the cut would be the easy bit.

 

[Fidena]

Qirrel, i buy vintage fabric whenever i find it but haven't come across any vintage heavy twill (45 degree grooved) lining yet of that exact type. would love to find some.

Fidena, to reproduce a suit like that the right sort of fabric (inside and out) is crucial in my opinion. it would also help to have a suit on hand to closely copy the finish and details from.
the cut would be the easy bit.

Yeah, I've been looking for some decent serge and haven't been able to find any that's even pure wool. Pretty lightweight, too. Forget about the thick ol' fabric.

They just don't make it like they used to.:eusa_doh:

 

[herringbonekid]

They just don't make it like they used to.:eusa_doh:

if you can't find serge, consider tweed. i bought some from these people... http://www.ardalanishfarm.co.uk/browns.html and was impressed by the quality. it's about 18 oz. they use vintage 20s and 50s looms, and even do a diamond twill pattern that you see on late teens- early 20s suits. they're pricey though, so order a swatch book first.

 

[Tomasso]

There's heavy wool serge available today, though it's generally used for overcoating.

 

[Guttersnipe]

The quality of workmanship, construction details, cut, and fabrics I see on vintage suits - even ones sold by bargain brands - is just nuts! It really says something about the priorities of an era that hired full-time employees to press the buttons on elevators and where you could by a suit with a canvased lining at Penny's . . .

One of my favorite work suits is a modern silver pinstriped number by golden era survivor brand Hart Schaffner Marx. I am very impressed by its quality and details, relative to other more expensive brands, also, it was made in the USA and has a union tag.

 

[Qirrel]

Qirrel, i buy vintage fabric whenever i find it but haven't come across any vintage heavy twill (45 degree grooved) lining yet of that exact type. would love to find some.

I have been looking for twill lining for a long time, too. It is proving difficult, though, as the closest to vintage fabric I have found is stuff from the 70s at the local fabric shop.

 

[Tomasso]

an era that hired full-time employees to press the buttons on elevators

Most of those were manually operated elevators and the operators were often required to make deliveries in the building as well.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Most of those were manually operated elevators and the operators were often required to make deliveries in the building as well.

That's exactly my point, the priority was quantifiable tangibles, like service level and product quality in the past, whereas now the primary emphasis is on intangibles, like branding and luxury.

As an off topic footnote, the Otis Elevator Company invented and began installing the first push-button signal control elevators in 1924. The patent for automatic opening and closing doors was issued is 1929.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Here's a 1940s American suit that would have been considered 'mid-level quality' back then. Add up all its details --the silhouette and proportions, the construction (aside from the wide stitching), the materials-- and you'll come up a level of quality that none of today's 'mid-level' suits can touch.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230675308504

 

[Tomasso]

Here's a 1940s American suit that would have been considered 'mid-level quality' back then. Add up all its details --the silhouette and proportions, the construction (aside from the wide stitching), the materials-- and you'll come up a level of quality that none of today's 'mid-level' suits can touch.

At what price-point would you say today's mid-level suits are positioned?

 

[Guttersnipe]

At what price-point would you say today's mid-level suits are positioned?

And as a follow up to A.C. Lyles question, what are some examples of low, mid, high, stratosphere levels vintage wise Marc?

I usually think of labels like Penny's, Montgomery Wards or Timely Clothes as the affordable suit brands for working men or young guys. Didn't many of the big/famous brands like Hart Shaffner Marx, Brooks Brothers, and Roos Brothers sell made-to-measure and off-the-rack suits?

As a side note for comparison, I was once told by a tailor, who did some alterations on a bespoke tuxedo from 1932 for me, that a comparable one would cost about $5K to today!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

And as a follow up to A.C. Lyles question, what are some examples of low, mid, high, stratosphere levels vintage wise Marc?

Huge question that probably no one living today could answer thoroughly. (Where's Arnold Gingrich when we need him? Oh yeah, he's dead.)

I'll offer up a handful of stratosphere names, and other Loungers can contribute more ... as well as high, mid and low names.

Strictly Golden Era here (1900s-1960s) ...


Stratosphere Quality (and Usually Price) American Bespoke Suitmakers from the Golden Era:


-- Wetzel (NYC)
-- H. Harris (NYC)
-- Twyeffort (NYC)
-- Emsley (NYC)
-- Stadler & Stadler (NYC)
-- Lord of New York (NYC)
-- Bernard Weatherill (NYC and London)
-- F. L. Dunne (NYC)
-- Rosenthal-Maretz (NYC)
-- Dunhill Tailors (NYC)
-- Earl Benham (NYC)
-- Pat Sylvestri (NYC)

-- Eddie Schmidt / Schmidt & Galuppo (L.A.)
-- Alexander & Oviatt / Oviatt's (L.A.)
-- Pesterre's (L.A.)
-- Quintino (L.A.)
-- Giacomo Trabalza (L.A.)
-- Tartaglia Bros. (L.A.)
-- Dominick Alvaro (L.A.)
-- Carmen LaMola (L.A.)
-- Albert Mariani (L.A.)
-- Anthony Gasbarri (L.A.)


If you find anything made by these tailors and it's your size, BUY IT IMMEDIATELY.

 

[Tomasso]

I was thinking more of brands than tailors. For example, Oxxford will soon be celebrating their centennial as a preeminent American suit maker. There were several others but only they remain making to that standard. In fact, of all the world's elite RTW suit makers, all but Oxxford are post war entities.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I was thinking more of brands than tailors. For example, Oxxford will soon be celebrating their centennial as a preeminent American suit maker. There were several others but only they remain making to that standard. In fact, of all the world's elite RTW suit makers, all but Oxxford are post war entities.

I'll open the floor to other Loungers to answer that question. To be honest with you, "Oxxford Clothes" haven't interested me much since they changed their spelling from "Oxford" in the late 1930s.

 

[Tomasso]

Since you don't want to play....I'll say that the comparable 'mid-market' suit is situated at around 2k these days.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Since you don't want to play....I'll say that the comparable 'mid-market' suit is situated at around 2k these days.

I see. Remind me to show you an Eddie Schmidt morning coat one of these days. And Matt Deckard has a Wetzel evening jacket from the early '30s.

 

[Tomasso]

There is obviously a misunderstanding here. You stated that this suit was mid-market back in the day.........I am merely asking you to identify a current brand/price-point that would be comparable. Again, not talking about bespoke.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

There is obviously a misunderstanding here. You stated that this suit was mid-market back in the day.........I am merely asking you to identify a current brand/price-point that would be comparable. Again, not talking about bespoke.

Do you wish me to name a current brand/price point whose quality is comparable to that of the vintage suit I linked? Or are you asking me which current brands/price points I consider to be "mid-level"?

 

[Tomasso]

The former.