The Open Road Guild

[RBH]

Here is part of the ad from 1948.

 

[gtdean48]

... The main thing is that I hope I can put it on my head without it slipping over my ears.

I watched but didn't bid on it. It is my size but I didn't care for what appears to be an add on wide ribbon. It could be an new sweatband but doubt they would bind the edge too.

 

[Justdog]

Custom

Recently acquired this one - I don't know how long before I actually receive it, so I decided to go ahead and post these pics. It's the only bound-brim Open Road 'Royal Stetson Deluxe' I've seen evidence of (digging through the 'Open Road' thread). It has both stamps on the sweatband.

If the ribbon is original, it's probably one of the last wide-ribbons . If the ribbon is not original, it's definitely one of the earliest thin-ribbons. The ribbon appears to not be folded in on the right side (evidence of fraying), which makes me think it is original. Also, it looks white, but the seller indicated it is actually tan.

This could very well be original and be the result of a custom request. 5/8 is a big hat for a sizable man. No reason at all a customer could not order this as it appears here.

 

[ScottF]

This could very well be original and be the result of a custom request. 5/8 is a big hat for a sizable man. No reason at all a customer could not order this as it appears here.

*edited - I've spent way too much time on this, so I'm going to 'drop the hat'. This hat can be whatever anyone wants it to be - I just hope it fits tolerably well.

Meanwhile, I'm stretching the Nutria tonight (not a euphemism). Very nice hat that seems to have the same proportions and color of my Open Roads (except the hat formerly known as 'bround brim with wide ribbon'). Thanks to Dinerman for his recommendation of nutria felt - it really is great stuff.

 

[jpbales]

That's pretty interesting with the wide ribbon- nice find. I've got a beat up old Dobbs open-road style on the way which I'm planning on renovating- I may use a wide ribbon on it...

 

[RBH]

Right, there's nothing unusual about this particular 'Open Road' stamp on the sweatband - what's odd is seeing ANY 'Open Road' stamp on the same sweatband as the 'Royal Stetson Deluxe' stamping.

All I was showing was there were 'Royal Stetson Deluxe' stamping on Open Roads in 1948.

 

[ScottF]

All I was showing was there were 'Royal Stetson Deluxe' stamping on Open Roads in 1948.

Thanks for posting that ad.

 

[Felt and Straw]

Griffon (not) on Sweat

I just picked up my first Open Road. The Stetson 3X branding on the sweat has the Beaver but not the Griffin. I've reread the first 22 pages of this thread where the question was asked twice but never (to my weary eyes) answered regarding what the significance is of the missing Griffin and if it helps in dating the hat.

Mine has a dark brown (not black) sweat (1 3/4") that says "open road" the "the" is missing. It has a wind trolley. I am working the sweat with Lexol for a bit before I torque it enough to look under to see if there is any tagging, etc.

Anything about the missing Griffin?

Cheers

 

[deanzat]

I love all of my hats, but this has been the summer of the Open Road. I'm still breaking it in, and savoring the process. I was photographing a play rehearsal last month and became aware of the costume designer staring at me while I worked. I stopped and looked at her. She said, a bit breathlessly, "what an elegant hat."

I hadn't thought about it that way, but you know, she's right. ;-) Z

 

[Mr. Paladin]

This is my second "official" Open Road, fedora style (with sweatband markings); a Royal Deluxe Stetson Open Road I just got off e-Bay. It does not appear to have been creased and I am still thinking on what I want. I thought about a diamond, but I do love the original center dent with side dents look. I'll post the finished product when I decide.

 

[Lefty]

I just picked up my first Open Road. The Stetson 3X branding on the sweat has the Beaver but not the Griffin.
Anything about the missing Griffin?

If the 3x Beaver logo on the sweat is square, it's a newer (70s-ish) hat.

 

[Dinerman]

I just picked up my first Open Road. The Stetson 3X branding on the sweat has the Beaver but not the Griffin. I've reread the first 22 pages of this thread where the question was asked twice but never (to my weary eyes) answered regarding what the significance is of the missing Griffin and if it helps in dating the hat.

Mine has a dark brown (not black) sweat (1 3/4") that says "open road" the "the" is missing. It has a wind trolley. I am working the sweat with Lexol for a bit before I torque it enough to look under to see if there is any tagging, etc.

Anything about the missing Griffin?

Cheers

If you could post a picture, I could take a look.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

I'm stretching the Nutria tonight (not a euphemism).

lol

Best one I ever heard was, "Roughing the Suspect".

 

[Felt and Straw]

Lost Griffin....

If you could post a picture, I could take a look.

Thanks D-Man!

Any thoughts?
Thanks!

 

[WineGuy]

Sweet!

This is my second "official" Open Road, fedora style (with sweatband markings); a Royal Deluxe Stetson Open Road I just got off e-Bay.



Wow Mr. Paladin, looks brand spanking new. Any idea of the vintage?

 

[WineGuy]

Need feedback

Got inspired by following this thread to retire my Montecristi for the season and break out the OR I won on ebay back in June. The seller represented that this hat was one of the first generation OR's from the late forties. It was restored by Gus Miller of Batsakes so I included shots of the original and new sweatbands.

I noticed that mine is sans wind trolley, were these hats made with and with out, or is mine simply missing it?

Can anyone confirm the vintage claim or give me advice as to what the correct age is?

Does having the hat restored and re-banded detract much from the collectable value?

 

[jimmy the lid]

When Scott showed me photos of this lid, my first reaction was that this was the only example I can recall of an Open Road sweat paired with the "Royal Stetson DeLuxe" designation. Here are some thoughts:

1. In terms of dating, an ad recently posted by RBH shows that the "Royal Stetson DeLuxe" designation was still in use in 1945. I own a 1948 "Royal DeLuxe" Stetson -- so, we know that by at least sometime in 1948, the "Royal DeLuxe" designation was in place (versus the "Royal Stetson DeLuxe" variation). I think that the ads provide very good evidence that the thin-ribbon ("modern") version of the OR was introduced right around 1948. That being said, print advertising sometimes lagged the actual introduction of a particular model. So, my own conclusion is that Scott's lid, by definition, is one of the early "modern" OR's. What it may also suggest is that the transition from "Royal Stetson DeLuxe" to "Royal DeLuxe" occurred right around the 1947/1948 timeframe.

2. My hunch is that, when Stetson launched the new version of the OR, it launched the OR as a thin ribbon, complete with new sweat design, edge binding, etc., and I think that the ads bear this out. I don't believe that there was a transition phase where the new OR was delivered from the factory with a wide black ribbon.

3. That being said, RBH has also posted a variety of ads that make it pretty clear that, back in the day, it was quite common for a hatter to offer to customize one's hat purchase by putting on a different style of ribbon. So, as others have already observed here, the mere fact that there is a wide ribbon on Scott's hat doesn't necessarily mean that it didn't leave the hat store that way many years ago -- but I'm not sure there is evidence to suggest that the wide ribbon was on the hat when it left the factory.

So, all in all, a very interesting find -- and a great looking OR! Well done, Scott!

Cheers,
JtL

 

[ScottF]

When Scott showed me photos of this lid, my first reaction was that this was the only example I can recall of an Open Road sweat paired with the "Royal Stetson DeLuxe" designation. Here are some thoughts:

1. In terms of dating, an ad recently posted by RBH shows that the "Royal Stetson DeLuxe" designation was still in use in 1945. I own a 1948 "Royal DeLuxe" Stetson -- so, we know that by at least sometime in 1948, the "Royal DeLuxe" designation was in place (versus the "Royal Stetson DeLuxe" variation). I think that the ads provide very good evidence that the thin-ribbon ("modern") version of the OR was introduced right around 1948. That being said, print advertising sometimes lagged the actual introduction of a particular model. So, my own conclusion is that Scott's lid, by definition is one of the early "modern" OR's. What it may also suggest is that the transition from "Royal Stetson DeLuxe" to "Royal DeLuxe" occurred right around the 1947/1948 timeframe.

2. My hunch is that, when Stetson launched the new version of the OR, it launched the OR as a thin ribbon, complete with new sweat design, edge binding, etc., and I think that the ads bear this out. I don't believe that there was a transition phase where the new OR was delivered from the factory with a wide black ribbon.

3. That being said, RBH has also posted a variety of ads that make it pretty clear that, back in the day, it was quite common for a hatter to offer to customize one's hat purchase by putting on a different style of ribbon. So, as others have already observed here, the mere fact that there is a wide ribbon on Scott's hat doesn't necessarily mean that it didn't leave the hat store that way many years ago -- but I'm not sure there is evidence to suggest that the wide ribbon was on the hat when it left the factory.

So, all in all, a very interesting find -- and a great looking OR! Well done, Scott!

Cheers,
JtL

Thanks Jtl - that all makes sense. I apologize for my anality regarding hat details, but I'm very history-minded when it comes to my hobbies. The history of these hats is like a puzzle where all the pieces are there, but 'there' is all over the place - ads, closets, etc. I've been through similar evidence treasure hunts with pool cues, 1800's baseball, etc., and that's the real fun of it.

As Jtl mentioned, ads sometimes lagged production. With other nationally-marketed items, I've found the following to be true:

- Ads lagged, but sometimes the logos and artwork in the ads for a new 'version, were sometimes OLD. For example, Brunswick was constantly changing fonts, etc, in their labels for pool cues, etc, but the catalogs and print ads sometimes used photos of old logos, or in some cases were 'cut and paste' jobs that ended up not being what was actually used.

- Crossover examples were common due simply to overstocks of old pieces. While rarer than the eventual new production version, they exist. Again, using Brunswick as an example, I have had pool cues that had old forearm stamps but newer decals. Making things even more difficult, ads for the new cue showed type fonts that were in some cases outdated by 10 or more years.

I think the above could also be true for Stetson hats. At some point I'll dig through these threads and put together something similar to my pool cue history website, which focuses on veneered Balke-Collenders. If I do this, I'll need help gathering ads and logos, so if anyone thinks it's worthwhile and wants to help out, let me know.

http://oldsplice.homestead.com/

 

[Justdog]

Crossover of Materials

Definitely agree with crossover of materials affecting firm dating. Customization by individual hatters was probably a major influence for customers. If you knew such and such would do a nice custom job on your lid then you probably gravitated that way. Individualizing a common thing like a hat in the old days must have been great. As far as wind buttons go I have the RD OR and the Soveriengn without, just a quick inventory. Those 2 hats did not have them originally.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Can anyone confirm the vintage claim or give me advice as to what the correct age is?

Well, WineGuy, your lid presents an aspect of dating vintage ORs that has never really been addressed here on the Lounge, as far as I can tell. First off, let me just say that your liner is certainly consistent with a late 40's/early 50's liner. You definitely have a vintage OR on your hands.

Here's the interesting aspect -- I have always wondered when Stetson made a switch to put the words "Open Road" on the side of the sweat, versus using "The Open Road" logo at the front of the sweat (see Scott's OR above for an example). I have two ORs that date to the mid-50's -- one a Royal Stetson, the other a Royal DeLuxe -- that have this feature. The DeLuxe dates to around 1956, and I believe the Royal (which uses black logotype) dates to around 1954. I also have a couple of ORs that have sweats consistent with the late 40's that have "The Open Road" logo at the front of the sweat.

So, my theory is that the change occurred at some time in the early/mid 50's. There are still some questions that remain. For example, did "The Open Road" logo drop from sight entirely, or did it remain in Stetsons that were marketed as part of Stetson's western line? One way or the other, when did the logo re-appear on Open Roads generally? Note that there is yet another variation -- where the words "Open Road" (without the logo aspect) appeared at the front of the sweat.

So, back to your lid, WineGuy. My guess is that your OR dates to 1952/1953 or thereabouts. One other factor to nail down is the use of "Long Oval" on the side of the sweat -- this could refine the dating on your lid if we knew whether there was a cut-off date for this particular feature.

Cheers,
JtL