The Open Road Guild

[Yhat]

Water on the Open Road

I'll post a few pictures...

Regarding warm water; do you let it soak, or apply it with a sponge?

 

[gtdean48]

Regarding warm water; do you let it soak, or apply it with a sponge?

I soak & rinse. I've only used sponges dry or with Scout's stain remover. Seems to me, a wet sponge would drive dirt deeper into the felt.

 

[Atticus Finch]

A few months ago, I bought what I thought to be a vintage Open Road. When it arrived, it turned out to be a Stetson Sovereign. I remember that we debated as to whether the word "Sovereign" in the hat's band referred to style or quality. If I’m not mistaken, we finally decided it referred to quality. But perhaps we were at least partially wrong. Having seen the above advertisement for the first time, I’m now convinced that, while Stetson may have used the term to describe the quality of some hats, they also made a style called the Sovereign. Visually, The Sovereign must have differed from the Open Road only in that it had a slightly wider brim. But for some reason it sold for twice the price of an OR. In today's dollars, I guess that would make the Sovereign about a three-hundred dollar hat.

AF

 

[Yhat]

I soak & rinse. I've only used sponges dry or with Scout's stain remover. Seems to me, a wet sponge would drive dirt deeper into the felt.

I'll give that a try. I have a Stratoliner that has the same problem. I much prefer a random "travel stain" then I do that little uniform orange ring that seems to be so common in silver bellies, etc.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[gtdean48]

...I remember that we debated as to whether the word "Sovereign" in the hat's band referred to style or quality. If I’m not mistaken, we finally decided it referred to quality. But perhaps we were at least partially wrong. Having seen the above advertisement for the first time, I’m now convinced that, while Stetson may have used the term to describe the quality of some hats, they also made a style called the Sovereign. Visually, The Sovereign must have differed from the Open Road only in that it had a slightly wider brim. But for some reason it sold for twice the price of an OR. In today's dollars, I guess that would make the Sovereign about a three-hundred dollar hat.

AF

AF, I have seen Stetson Twenty's that also say Sovereign. I also noticed the Sovereign was priced at $20, too. I have a Twenty Five in OR style & one with a 2 ply ribbon & no edge binding, like the one described in this ad. That would make the 25 above the Sovereign in quality?
I also have an Royal Deluxe OR but see a Stetson "Royal Deluxe" offered here as well.
Is this a company ad or could the local hat store have had this done up for the local paper?

 

[Inusuit]

Same thing happened to me. The seller called it an "Open Road style." Sweat says Stetson Sovereign. No "X" rating. This particular hat is in pristine condition, has a wind trolley and the round size tag marked "1/2." But it seems to be of lesser quality than my two 3X Open Roads. (One is not marked OR, the other is.) The felt is stiff, and the crown is lower.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Same thing happened to me. The seller called it an "Open Road style." Sweat says Stetson Sovereign. No "X" rating. This particular hat is in pristine condition, has a wind trolley and the round size tag marked "1/2." But it seems to be of lesser quality than my two 3X Open Roads. (One is not marked OR, the other is.) The felt is stiff, and the crown is lower.

Interesting. I also have two 3 X "Open Roads". One is marked "The Open Road" at the front of the sweat. The other just has "XXX" on the sweat. Both of my XXX ORs seem older than my Sovereign. They both have wide, light-brown sweat bands and their felt is much softer. They also have tan, round, size tags. The Sovereign is more stiff, has a narrow, black sweat and a square, redish size tag. I would guess my Sovereign to be from the mid to late 'fifties. My three-X Stetsons appear to be from the 'forties or early fifties.

Amazing how we've ended up with the same hats in our collections!

AF

 

[Inusuit]

Amazing how we've ended up with the same hats in our collections!

AF

We both have excellent taste...

 

[gtdean48]

My Stetson 25 Open Road style seems to be a notch above the quality of my 3X Open Road. I haven't had the opportunity to compare with a Sovereign/20 of similiar period.

 

[Justdog]

Chime in

My Stetson 25 Open Road style seems to be a notch above the quality of my 3X Open Road. I haven't had the opportunity to compare with a Sovereign/20 of similiar period.

Thought I would add my thoughts. Only to do with the ones I have.
3X Choc Brn. Extremely soft and pliable although it is a 15 not labeled OR
Sovereign 20 OR soft dove color perfect felt. 25 OR , Have 2 One stiffer firmer felt very nice but not the Sovereign or 3x The other 25 stiff cattleman. Then there are the Royal deluxes which are substantial like the 25. I give the edge to the Sovereign then the 3x then the 25 then the Royal Deluxe.. Interestingly the Sovereign gets the compliments Cheers!

 

[Atticus Finch]

...Is this a company ad or could the local hat store have had this done up for the local paper?

Yes, I thought of this, also. Maybe a local merchant was trying to sell his product by creating more Stetson styles than really existed. The ad does look like something created by a small, local newspaper.

On the other hand, there really does seem to be a bit of a difference between the brim width of a Sovereign and that of a typical OR. And the Sovereign says THE Sovereign on the sweat band, just as an Open Road says, THE Open Road.

The debate continues...

AF

 

[jimmy the lid]

Yes, I thought of this, also. Maybe a local merchant was trying to sell his product by creating more Stetson styles than really existed. The ad does look like something created by a small, local newspaper.

On the other hand, there really does seem to be a bit of a difference between the brim width of a Sovereign and that of a typical OR. And the Sovereign says THE Sovereign on the sweat band, just as an Open Road says, THE Open Road.

The debate continues...

AF

Some thoughts...

"The Sovereign" is a Stetson quality designation, essentially synonymous with "Stetson Twenty." If you search the Lounge, you will see all kinds of styles of hats with "The Sovereign" on the sweat. "The Sovereign" made a comeback as a quality designation in the 60's and beyond. Based on your description of the stiffer felt and narrow black sweat, Atticus, it sounds like yours may likely date to the mid-60's.

As far as the ad posted above goes, it appears that the merchant was selling an OR of "Sovereign" quality (whether it says "Open Road" on it or not, it's the same style -- the difference in brim width is negligible, and it certainly was not uncommon for ORs to have brims that were 2 7/8"). This conclusion is buttressed by the fact that the ad above is also selling a "Royal Deluxe" for $12.50. The reference is not to a "Royal Deluxe" as a model designation (which it wasn't), but, instead, to an OR of "Royal Deluxe" quality. So, the Sovereign would have gone for $20 -- twice the amount of a base model Royal Stetson OR, which would have gone for $10. This particular ad seems to use model designations and quality designations interchangeably -- in all likelihood a result of the local nature of the ad itself.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Atticus Finch]

Interesting information. If other styles of Stetsons also have "The Sovereign" in their sweatbands, then my theory is pretty much knocked into a cocked...well, you know.

Seriously, I guess I'm trying to force some structure into Stetson's terminology where maybe it didn't exist. They sold a hat that they called "The Open Road", for ten dollars. At the same time, they also offered a hat that looked exactly like an Open Road, but was of a higher (Sovereign) quality for twice as much...but that hat didn't have a name. Somehow, that doesn't make good marketing sense to me.

I'd be interested to know if someone here has seen a Sovereign quality Open Road with "The Open Road" printed in the sweatband?

AF

 

[rlk]

Royal Deluxe Stetson Open Road

My first with the actual label and by Stetson. Rather worn and grungy and not as blue as I had hoped, I'd call it medium gray. Soft, very pliable black leather sweatband. Fairly light weight and soft felt. Late 1950's I suspect. 2-5/8" brim. No stickers remaining under the sweatband. Seems to be the original shape and crease.

 

[Justdog]

Very sweet

:eusa_clap
Post pics after you have it cleaned

 

[rlk]

:eusa_clap
Post pics after you have it cleaned

This is actually fresh from cleaning at Optimo. The felt isn't bad but the ribbon trim is still a bit worn and dirty looking. More a utility hat.

 

[Justdog]

Cleaned

This is actually fresh from cleaning at Optimo. The felt isn't bad but the ribbon trim is still a bit worn and dirty looking. More a utility hat.

Hard to tell from a pic. But if it was Optimo its clean. Unique color.

 

[FurFeltFedora]

I've been trying to get a vintage Open Road for a while now, but the prices end up way outside my range. I did look at the current Stetson Open Road hats and I see that they are all pre-shaped now in a crease I don't really like. Has anyone here ever tried to take a new Open Road (pre-creased) and return it to open crown and then re-shape?

 

[Atticus Finch]

I've been trying to get a vintage Open Road for a while now, but the prices end up way outside my range. I did look at the current Stetson Open Road hats and I see that they are all pre-shaped now in a crease I don't really like. Has anyone here ever tried to take a new Open Road (pre-creased) and return it to open crown and then re-shape?

There was a thread here, somewhere, where a guy re-shaped a modern OR with some success. Truthfully, I would have never guessed that it could be done, given how stiff they are.

The last I checked, a new OR runs about $165.00 or so. Recently, I've bought several vintage Open Roads on e-bay and I don't recall having to pay quite that much for one....and mine are hard-to-find size 7 5/8 and 7 3/4. Depending on your hat size, and if you are patient, you may still be able to score a nice, vintage OR at a price that is less than a new one.

AF

 

[St.Ignatz]

I got a used 2006, sorry pre-owned, one on the bay. Reshaping was not a problem with some steam and a spray bottle. My only problem was the hat had been "cleaned" with the old school cornstarch dusting and it took some effort to get the old crease smudge out. It's a descent hat but if your just buying the logo wait for one is my advise. The Fedora Store runs some great specials from time to time on Beaver Brand.
Tom D.