The most ridiculous Himel yet? Freenote Collab Beck.

[Canuck Panda]

Bespoke, Made to Order, Made to Measure, Patterns, Full Grain, Top Grain, Chrome Tan, Veg Tan, Combi Tan...etc. are just words that can have different meaning to different people.

If you bought a Himel jacket, and are happy about it, keep enjoying it.
If you bought one and are having second thoughts, move it on.
If you haven't bought a Himel jacket, and want to, and is within your means, just do it. Life is too short to wait.
If you haven't bought one and is second guessing the potential purchase. Don't do it, chances are you will continue to second guess after the purchase. Time is better spent elsewhere where there is no doubt. When in doubt, always trust your own guts feeling.

This is the end of the recording. To repeat go back up top...

 

[jeo]

To be quite frank, though, his branding and whole marketing campaign is an act of fraud. It’s not bespoke. It’s made-to-measure.

Luckily most of us here understand that. Not everyone does, but quite honestly I doubt anyone cares whether it’s MTM or bespoke even if they did know the difference. As long as they can tell him to add an inch here remove an inch there.

What gets to me about Himel is the arrogance.

 

[Aloysius]

Luckily most of us here understand that. Not everyone does, but quite honestly I doubt anyone cares whether it’s MTM or bespoke even if they did know the difference. As long as they can tell him to add an inch here remove an inch there.

Sure they don't know what it actually means. But the thing is he uses 'bespoke' to show how he's at a higher level than mere MTM or RTW makers like Aero or Lost Worlds, and I'm sure people fall for that. In other words, they don't know what 'bespoke' means, but they "know" it's a special thing Himel has that the others don't have.

What gets to me about Himel is the arrogance.

I think it's part of the same phenomenon. "We're bespoke [even though we're not] unlike these lowly competitors", "Look how much better our stitching is than this pathetic Aero [by the way I don't know how to sew]", etc.

 

[jeo]

@Aloysius (forgot to quote)

I’ve never heard anyone refer to their Himel jacket as bespoke as if to differentiate their jacket as being better than competitors that aren’t bespoke.

He can use that word inaccurately all day long, no one is buying a Himel jacket because it’s “bespoke”.

I think it’s on the consumer to do their own research and take anything someone is saying that is trying to sell you something with a grain of salt and if you do fall for buzz words and hype then you’re probably a sucker that will fall for anything.

As far as I’m concerned it’s just brandspeak, that’s all. Every company tries to establish a unique selling/value proposition even if it’s bullshit. Which most of the times it is. Go on any brands website and you’ll read stuff like “of the highest quality” or “made with the finest leathers on earth” and what have you.

You brought up Lost Worlds. They are masters at this. Copy from them reads as if they are the best thing known to man. They just don’t do it on social media, but plenty of others do.

 

[Aloysius]

I’ve never heard anyone refer to their Himel jacket as bespoke as if to differentiate their jacket as being better than competitors that aren’t bespoke.

Virtually every post by a Himel customer, here and elsewhere, proclaims the jacket bespoke.

He can use that word inaccurately all day long, no one is buying a Himel jacket because it’s “bespoke”.

Despite the fraud and often dodgy fit, I think Himel’s workers often put together nice looking jackets. The materials are almost always beautiful and in some cases they even fit well.

But it’s sad to see his huckstering while actual bespoke houses go out of business.

 

[JMax]

Hyping the jackets you are selling is one thing. They all do that and you are correct (@jeo) to point it out. But, LW and every other maker don’t say their jackets are bespoke. Just one. That is more than hype imo.

They can make beautiful jackets and when the fit is nailed, it looks absolutely great. No argument there.

 

[jeo]

Virtually every post by a Himel customer, here and elsewhere, proclaims the jacket bespoke.



View attachment 501343

Despite the fraud and often dodgy fit, I think Himel’s workers often put together nice looking jackets. The materials are almost always beautiful and in some cases they even fit well.

But it’s sad to see his huckstering while actual bespoke houses go out of business.

That's coming from Himel from his IG or website, not that particular customer...

 

[handymike]

I’ve seen a few of his “stock” models before (Self-Edge/ Orvis) and they were both off in some way. Custom measurements or at least a direct order is the way to go with a Himel jacket IMO. I will go see if Freenote has one in stock and let you all know my thoughts.

 

[jeo]

@JMax not going to get into an argument about the semantics of what constitues hype. If that's what you think, fine.

 

[handymike]

Only 1 XL left in the LA store!

 

[Aloysius]

That's coming from Himel from his IG or website, not that particular customer.

Yes that was a Himel ad I was posting.

It was separate to my comment about customers thinking they’re getting bespoke, which are easily found with a quick search of the forum. Both the customers who had good experiences and bad experiences seem to believe that they got ‘bespoke’ jackets.

 

[jeo]

Yes that was a Himel ad I was posting.

It was separate to my comment about customers thinking they’re getting bespoke, which are easily found with a quick search of the forum. Both the customers who had good experiences and bad experiences seem to believe that they got ‘bespoke’ jackets.

Going to quote myself here...

"I’ve never heard anyone refer to their Himel jacket as bespoke as if to differentiate their jacket as being better than competitors that aren’t bespoke"

They are saying the word bespoke, you're correct about that and that is definitely coming from Himel, but like my first comment, they either aren't really sure the difference OR just think bespoke = custom. The one guy from the thread you linked even says "Bespoke 44" so they're aware it's a stock 44 with some changes.

Bespoke, Made to Order, Made to Measure, Patterns, Full Grain, Top Grain, Chrome Tan, Veg Tan, Combi Tan...etc. are just words that can have different meaning to different people.

^ This.

 

[JMax]

Why is Himel the only maker that uses the term bespoke? You can’t really believe they are the only professional jacket maker that is confused about its meaning?

 

[ton312]

Virtually every post by a Himel customer, here and elsewhere, proclaims the jacket bespoke.



View attachment 501343

Despite the fraud and often dodgy fit, I think Himel’s workers often put together nice looking jackets. The materials are almost always beautiful and in some cases they even fit well.

But it’s sad to see his huckstering while actual bespoke houses go out of business.

That fit to me is just plain awful. Looks like a leather shirt.

Puts pinky in air

Sips tea

 

[navetsea]

shouldn't "bespoke" require measuring by a tailor and perhaps several try ons during the jacket being made?

and most importantly spoken in a very british accent with speaker's nostrils slightly tilted upward to make it clear we peasants are not worthy of such treatment?

how would a canadian who are most famous for their denim tux use that word in vain.... lol lol

Virtually every post by a Himel customer, here and elsewhere, proclaims the jacket bespoke.



View attachment 501343

Despite the fraud and often dodgy fit, I think Himel’s workers often put together nice looking jackets. The materials are almost always beautiful and in some cases they even fit well.

But it’s sad to see his huckstering while actual bespoke houses go out of business.

but whatever I like the fit of the jacket on that picture. perhaps a hair too tight on him but looks cool.

 

[jeo]

Why is Himel the only maker that uses the term bespoke? You can’t really believe they are the only professional jacket maker that is confused about its meaning?

I can only assume you're talking to me...

I already answered why he is using the term bespoke. I'll reiterate.

I don't think he's confused about anything. I think he knows exactly what he is doing. I've already acknowledged that is technically an incorrect term and that he is employing marketing or buzzwords and that most marketing is BS. That's why I believe he is using the term bespoke.

I believe Himel is using that word to differentiate himself (USP/UVP) He is aware no one in the leather jacket world uses that word. That is why he is using it.

If all those people quoted in the 3 threads above knew what bespoke actually was, they wouldn't use that term. Clearly, they don't know what it means.

He could have just as easily been saying custom or MTM and then all those people would have been saying those words instead, but then it isn't unique, is it?

It's very easy to confuse bespoke with custom or MTM as they all mean that they are made for a particular customer. The fact that we know that bespoke means more than just MTM and is a rather complicated process involving completely custom patterns, getting measured multiple times, going back to make adjustments etc.. just says how deep we are into this shit but really for 99% of people it's the same ****** thing.

Blasting him for using bespoke instead of MTM is really quite ridiculous and you and others are fixated on those ridiculous semantics ("It's not bespoke, it's MTM!!!!!") because you don't like Himel and don't think his jackets are worth it compared to others. That is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Aloy says his entire marketing campaign is fraud, I just said it doesn't matter since no one is buying Himels because they are "bespoke".

I don't believe that anyone buying a Himel is saying to themselves "I'm going to buy a Himel because it's bespoke and no one else does bespoke and because my Himel will be bespoke it will be better than other jackets that aren't bespoke".

I believe people buy Himel because they see his jackets and go "wow!"

So again, I think him using the word bespoke is marketing. And like most marketing, it's usually bullshit. You don't agree with that and like I said, that's fine. You believe him using the term bespoke is straight up lying and is more severe than the outlandish over the top statements by LW or BK or anyone else. I disagree.

Let's just leave it at that shall we.

 

[navetsea]

In my part of the world ( I guess the same elsewhere where time and labor is less valued than the materials as seen here in 5* ) there is nothing fancy about getting measured and custom pattern, it is just custom project at various price point and market segment, good ones will get nice result with less time, bad ones will still look sloppy after being revised over multiple fittings .

 

[Aloysius]

I believe Himel is using that word to differentiate himself (USP/UVP) He is aware no one in the leather jacket world uses that word. That is why he is using it.

In other words, a conscious lie.

If all those people quoted in the 3 threads above knew what bespoke actually was, they wouldn't use that term. Clearly, they don't know what it means.

Correct, they don’t know what it means, except that it’s somehow better than the other thing those other places offer. So yes he’s getting customers out of promising something that he doesn’t offer, implicitly lying about other companies in the process. (Why am I saying “implicitly”? He’s publicly and embarrassingly trashed other makes inaccurately.)

Blasting him for using bespoke instead of MTM is really quite ridiculous and you and others are fixated on those ridiculous semantics ("It's not bespoke, it's MTM!!!!!") because you don't like Himel and don't think his jackets are worth it compared to others. That is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

No, it’s not ridiculous at all. Bespoke is an actual category. It’s not widely used by jacket makers, indeed, and one doesn’t really need bespoke due to the pliability of leather. That Himel goes ahead and uses it as a way of showing he offers a special service that he doesn’t is blatant dishonesty.

LW has the same astronomical prices, as do many Japanese makers, so no.

And real bespoke leather does exist. Carlos once walked into Lewis and the pattern maker actually drafted a bespoke pattern for him, for instance.

Let's just leave it at that shall we.

No.

 

[navetsea]

Bespoke, Made to Order, Made to Measure, Patterns, Full Grain, Top Grain, Chrome Tan, Veg Tan, Combi Tan...etc. are just words that can have different meaning to different people.

If you bought a Himel jacket, and are happy about it, keep enjoying it.
If you bought one and are having second thoughts, move it on.
If you haven't bought a Himel jacket, and want to, and is within your means, just do it. Life is too short to wait.
If you haven't bought one and is second guessing the potential purchase. Don't do it, chances are you will continue to second guess after the purchase. Time is better spent elsewhere where there is no doubt. When in doubt, always trust your own guts feeling.

This is the end of the recording. To repeat go back up top...

I remember someone at style forum believe his jacket is object tanned, believing his jacket is made from raw skin of dead animal sewn together with blood allover and after it is finished then it is tanned as a jacket that's why it is very special, perhaps he was confused with object dyeing, perhaps the label owner himself was confused and mis advertised his item lol who knows

 

[navetsea]

but seriously guys, do you really want to summon the man? have you charged your mobile phone fully? have you purged your memory cache recently... ? because it would be impactful.