The lack of Pedestrian culture in America

[carebear]

If my future home would not be described in the news reports as a "compound", I will not have achieved my dream.

 

[Diamondback]

If my future home would not be described in the news reports as a "compound", I will not have achieved my dream.

Mere "compound"? WIMP! Let's try going for "fortress" or "bunker"... lol

 

[Viola]

Sillyheads! Its not supposed to LOOK like a compound!

I want a tiny cottage so adorable looking directly at it is bad for your pancreas. Shutters, roses, the works.

That way I can look innocently cute when I say. "Well, officer, I was just so SCARED that I just emptied the gun into him..."

-Viola

 

[carebear]

Trust me, "innocently cute" is not a tactic that will work for us.

Best I can hope for is "seemed so quiet". lol

 

[Viola]

Well then I guess you can skip the dyed pink schutzhund-trained standard poodle as well.lol

-Viola

 

[Diamondback]

Sillyheads! Its not supposed to LOOK like a compound!

I want a tiny cottage so adorable looking directly at it is bad for your pancreas. Shutters, roses, the works.

That way I can look innocently cute when I say. "Well, officer, I was just so SCARED that I just emptied the gun into him..."

lol But, Miss Viola, some of us don't have the "cute and small" card available to play , and mine won't really look like a compound from "inside the wire", just a fairly large house roofed entirely in solar panels and with a good-sized rotunda on top for my observation deck. Ground floor decor to fit a military-history specialist and college history prof, 2nd to be decorated by theoretical Sweeetie to her spec. 3's machinery, electrical, climate-control and a couple big water tanks.

Only outward indicator would be the jet fighter parked in the backyard, fueled and ready...

 

[jamespowers]

You guys and self sufficient ladies are killing me. lol lol lol lol
If I ever call on you, remind me to call first and make a reservation to avoid being caught in a crossfire, blown sky high or being mauled by a pink poodle. I certainly will walk up the driveway and not drive to avoid being thought of as a SWAT team or something in an SUV. That's my pedestrain contribution.

 

[Viola]

lol But, Miss Viola, some of us don't have the "cute and small" card available to play , and mine won't really look like a compound from "inside the wire", just a fairly large house roofed entirely in solar panels and with a good-sized rotunda on top for my observation deck. Ground floor decor to fit a military-history specialist and college history prof, 2nd to be decorated by theoretical Sweeetie to her spec. 3's machinery, electrical, climate-control and a couple big water tanks.

Only outward indicator would be the jet fighter parked in the backyard, fueled and ready...

I guess if it looks normal that's close enough.

+1 on the solar panels, too. Especially on the West Coast, because I think a "green roof" would rapidly turn to a "crunchy brown roof."

I'm going to stick with the "suburban dollhouse" look though. Steel doors and shutters paint up as nicely in Deco/Atomic pastels as any other color. lol

-Viola

 

[Elaina]

One of the great things about the U.S. is that there's something for everyone--suburbs, countryside, downtown, small town, commune--and you can live wherever you want. If you're unhappy where you're living, it's time to pick yourself up and move.

Unless you're poor, have no car, no access to things needed for living or otherwise get lost in the cracks of the system.

I can't afford college, don't qualify for loans or grants (darn cracks again), had a crappy car that gave up the ghost (so I'm stuck on PT where it takes me 4 and a half hours to go 20 miles round trip to get my kid from school), no family that can/will help (or even talk to me for that matter)...and I'm one of a vast many.

 

[GoldLeaf]

Elaina, ::hugs:: to you. It makes me angry when I hear about situations like yours. I wish there was something I could do to help. I'm sorry that I can't. I hope that thinks find a surprising way of working out for you.

 

[Elaina]

Eh, it wasn't for sympathy, just sayin', you know? It's not always easy for everyone, and I think people forget that sometimes.

 

[Paisley]

Unless you're poor, have no car, no access to things needed for living or otherwise get lost in the cracks of the system.

I can't afford college, don't qualify for loans or grants (darn cracks again), had a crappy car that gave up the ghost (so I'm stuck on PT where it takes me 4 and a half hours to go 20 miles round trip to get my kid from school), no family that can/will help (or even talk to me for that matter)...and I'm one of a vast many.

Well, I started out with $20. Lots of immigrants have started out even worse and pulled themselves up.

 

[Elaina]

I'm not trying to get into a contest of whose life has sucked or does suck more. It was a statement pointing out that there are two sides to everything, and for a good portion of the society that solution is not going to work.

 

[Viola]

I try to figure out where I want to live (I hate moving, don't want to do it over and over and over again) and I'd like a house on a couple acres. I think the closest that leaves me to home, affordably, is West Virginia. [huh]

-Viola

 

[Paisley]

I'm not trying to get into a contest of whose life has sucked or does suck more. It was a statement pointing out that there are two sides to everything, and for a good portion of the society that solution is not going to work.

I guess what I was trying to say (but didn't say very well) was that where there's a will, there's a way. I'm sure you'll figure something out.

 

[Diamondback]

You guys and self sufficient ladies are killing me. lol lol lol lol
If I ever call on you, remind me to call first and make a reservation to avoid being caught in a crossfire, blown sky high or being mauled by a pink poodle. I certainly will walk up the driveway and not drive to avoid being thought of as a SWAT team or something in an SUV. That's my pedestrain contribution.

Mr. Powers, you'd definitely want to drive it--that's gonna be a LONG driveway... just let me know you're coming first'd be all I'd ask, especially so you wouldn't find yourself nose-to-nose with something like this on takeoff-roll:

Besides, SWAT doesn't worry me, I'd probably end up sharing firing-lines with 'em at the local range not long after moving in! (Like I've said, you might've seen some of my current range-buddies in uniforms on COPS...)

I guess if it looks normal that's close enough.

+1 on the solar panels, too. Especially on the West Coast, because I think a "green roof" would rapidly turn to a "crunchy brown roof."

The question is, how do I make 6500+ square feet between 1, 2 and the observation deck (not counting 3 and the basement) look "normal"... All the solar's 'cause I don't wanna get zoinked on the power bills for the high-end mainframes, the CNC machines and every time I wanna start the jet...

 

[Fletch]

Thoughts after being on the Continent

I have just returned from 10 days in northern Italy. If there is one adjective that can describe Italians, it would be either "caffeinated" or "high-density." 60 million hand-waving patriotic people packed into a landmass shaped like a boot ('cause you couldn't fit 'em all into a shoe.) Even waaay up in the Apennines in my maternal ancestors' hometown, which has dwindled down to half a dozen pensioners hanging off the sides of cliffs, there is a bus stop every couple of kilometers. Once you get out of the old cities' lanes and squares, zoning is a joke. You got your apartment blocks right next to your truck terminals down the block from your wheat farms within spitting distance of your refineries. This is a country where the ancient and the modern exist side by side because they have no choice.

Someone mentioned motorcycles and scooters. From spending 3 days in Milan, I surmise that they would only make things crazier in the dense areas. Motorized 2 wheelers actually outnumber bicycles here, and probably pedestrians, and have right-of-way over them all as well as over Milan's profusion of cars, streetcars, buses, and dogs. About the only rule is that actual motorcycles (as opposed to scooters, mopeds, what-have-ya) are never driven by women. Everybody else uses everything else. The characteristic sound of the streets is bzzzzzzzzz. Every building not owned by the Catholic Church is caked in soot. Borsalino (more about them anon) puts is name on cycle helmets.

At the same time, many Italians are car crazy. They will rattle around in sub-subcompacts until the fenders come off, and will skimp at lunch for years to save up for a decent size Fiat or VW. They insist on manual trannys (so would we if we bought gas by the liter) and are perfectly happy clutching and de-clutching 40 times a minute in urban traffic (which persists well outside urban areas). On the Autostradas, early in the day and late at night, you can do 90mph (±140km/h), and you will, gladly. All other intercity routes are two-lane and narrow.

Italy's remaining open flat spaces are of course being eaten up with development. It's amazing how they find so much space to build when nothing is ever torn down. My sort-of uncle Rinaldo owns a fleet of tank trucks outside of Milan. This makes him a rich man because he can own a nice modern house on 1/2 acre or so with a walled garden and space to park a tanker or two. Up to a year ago he lived across from a wooded park. Now there's not a tree outside his garden walls - it's all been cleared for multistory apartments.

Rinaldo drove us by the Villa Berlusconi. Silvio Berlusconi is the richest man in Italy, recently president, and still a huge power in government even with no public office. The Villa is surrounded by his private park, so wooded you can't see the house. The surroundings? Average Italian: packed-in 2-and-3-story apartments and rowhouses and restaurants and tire stores, all crumbling stucco and squiggle graffiti. Imagine Donald Trump living on several dozen acres in an unlovely part of his native Queens and you about have it.

All this is extreme, admittedly. Not Hong Kong extreme, but pretty damned extreme. The street and public life is wonderful and invigorating. Walking in even small old cities is rewarding: besides the ancient landmarks, there's always a stop to make for a little coffee or snack or a shop to check out. There are also surprisingly peaceful squares, gardens, parks. (Milan obligates owners of private courtyards to allow the public in on weekends.)

America couldn't adopt this model outside the biggest, oldest cities, and shouldn't. Life in Europe is a chronic backache where ours is just mild stomach upset. Even here, we have more elbow room and wider thorofares. Our density is rarely this crazy. But it reminds us of what we need more of. More walkability. Decent public facilities meant for everyone, not just the poor. Multi-use neighborhoods. A sense of color and life, not just commerce and traffic.

I don't doubt that places built on those ideas can survive and thrive in a few urbanized, bourgeois-bohemian areas. But we can't let them become ghettos of social privilege, just more elite enclaves in the ongoing culture war. We used to have walkable small towns and small cities, with workable public transit and enough downtown density to make for a good central business district and strong neighborhoods.

Sure, Main Street was never the Piazza San Marco (hell, even St. Mark's Place), but a lot of what the older folks get misty about in their glurge emails can be traced directly back to that place and that mode of living. It's too bad that that ideal has been chucked aside by the phoney-family-values crowd, who are more interested in not paying for social programs than in improving the quality of life for lots of people, and by business communities who see no greater principle than making every possible dime off the status quo. As for the public and what they do or don't want: if you build it - with them in mind, and keep it up - they will come. I really do believe that.

It is probably going to take a first class national calamity to unseat the automobile culture to any great degree. Say, if Big Oil takes a hit and Washington fails to pump tax dollars into the industry (imagine!). And if corn, electric, etc., don't prove feasible, and interstate trucking and commercial airlines' business models start to fail, and massive unemployment and/or inflation result. We don't generally take to mass social movements in this country until they reach the family checkbook. But it doesn't take too much imagination to envision a day when our current way of living gets too expensive and our means of making that living get too limited. Until then, we're stuck with our little ghettos of social privilege amongst the malls and developments.

 

[ShooShooBaby]

well said, fletch, and a very interesting read. :eusa_clap

 

[reetpleat]

There have been many good comments regarding the issues of public transporation, urban/suburban/rural living and transportation, etc.

I've never really lived where I could use public transportation regularly. In the late '70s I lived near downtown Long Beach and worked in a factory in Vernon. When I didn't have a working car I had to take the bus, which meant catching it at 0400 in the morning. Not fun. The rail lines and subways didn't exist, just the RTD.

Instead I bought my first motorcycle. Low cost to buy, low cost to operate, lots of fun. Yes, there is the issue of weather, but one can wear the proper gear for that. Motorcycles and scooters cause less wear and tear on the roads, use less gasoline, take less space to park. Get the right scooter and you can haul a lot of groceries under the seat. There are other luggage options, too.

Yes, yes, I'm sure that people will bring up the "they're too dangerous" argument, but I would feel safer on a bike than on a bus where I'm afraid to close my eyes. Take a MSF course, learn strategies for dealing with traffic and other issues, then ride to work!

Clothing is another issue I'm sure would be brought up. I wear a riding suit that slips easily on and off over street clothes. Carry a pair of shoes to change into if you can't wear your boots all day (don't people often do that when commuting in the big city--wear sneakers to and from work and change into dress shoes once there?)

I wish planners would take motorcycles and scooters into consideration when doing their planning. Encourage their use by putting in motorcycle parking--which takes up less space than car parking. Heck, put it in the areas at the end of the rows of car parking! (Many riders park there, but some places will ticket you for not parking in a full slot.)

This year's annual Ride to Work Day is July 18th.

Remember: Work to Ride, Ride to Work!

Cheers,
Tom

While not exactly the same topic, definitely related. I agree with the benefits. OF course a motorcycle is only going to reduce gas consumption and maybe take up less rod space. But a scooter or small bike is perfect for a dense city a ittle farther than walking distance. As long as you can park. I agree that they should make a lot more parking for them. I love the movies of Paris or Italy where you ride down these long alleys and just park wherever. That would be perfect for me.

 

[reetpleat]

Public transport takes money, just like every other public service. If you have a municipal area that has chosen to spend its money on other sorts of services, the share of the pie for PT is less.

If the muni starts raising taxes and fees to provide for a bigger pie, the folks and businesses who can afford to are (sensibly) going to leave for somewhere with lower property taxes. Especially those that don't want to live cheek-by-jowl anyway.

That leads to a decrease in the productive tax base, from two directions. The people and businesses with the scratch to pay their taxes but who don't want to be ripped off flee so they can keep more of their money and then the people who remain don't have the quality jobs to earn enough to support the remaining businesses, which again lowers the quality of life and leads to more people and businesses fleeing or moving to where they can afford to live in a decent style.

In the end the only people left are those who absolutely can't afford to go anywhere else, and because there are no jobs anymore, they end up needing increased muni services, further taking from the shrinking tax pie.

By that point, the muni is desperate to support itself and starts selling out cheap to developers who can negotiate better taxes and have the scratch to pay them, but who then quite sensibly market to high-rollers who DO want the urban experience and can make their risky investment worthwhile. But they want to live in style, so the blight and its remaining inhabitants have to be moved.

Unintended consequences of trying to help people out in the first place.
Urban planning, especially through mandate and zoning, has to tread carefully when it comes to intruding into existing urban scenarios. As mentioned, it's easier to have success when you are dealing with ground-up creation of "ideal" urban centers, and it is predisposed on ensuring the maintainance of a producing tax base.

that makes such big assumptions. Wo says there are no benrfits to companies for their taxes. A better standard of living, easy commute to employees etc.

If what you say is true, the major cities of the east coast and Chicago and Minneapolis, Montreal, not to mention Mexico City, Eropean cities etc.

all the cities with good mass transit would be collapsing due the abandonment of the city. But it is not the case. These cities work well and maintain excellent mass transit.