The lack of Pedestrian culture in America

[RedPop4]

Excellent, Paisley, so true.
And the contempt for people driving to or from the gym, ya know, JUUUUUUUUST maybe, they have other tasks to accomplish and other places to visit. JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST maybe, they want to be very precise in their training and keeping track of their exercise, whether it be physical, or time elapsed or whatever. The walking track where we'd go to walk is over a mile away, and across a four lane Federal Highway (US 61), much easier and likely safer to drive it.

JUUUUUUUUUUST maybe, people need to dash in and dash out for whatever reason, and don't have the extra time to walk 500 yards from the last place in the parking lot like some of you seem to have.

 

[jamespowers]

Excellent, Paisley, so true.
And the contempt for people driving to or from the gym, ya know, JUUUUUUUUST maybe, they have other tasks to accomplish and other places to visit. JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST maybe, they want to be very precise in their training and keeping track of their exercise, whether it be physical, or time elapsed or whatever. The walking track where we'd go to walk is over a mile away, and across a four lane Federal Highway (US 61), much easier and likely safer to drive it.

JUUUUUUUUUUST maybe, people need to dash in and dash out for whatever reason, and don't have the extra time to walk 500 yards from the last place in the parking lot like some of you seem to have.

All good points. IN short, time is not free. It costs you money one way or another.
I'll elaborate further on high density housing and being able to live within a given area when I get time.

Regards,

J

 

[Feng_Li]

The author of these articles goes on at length about how much he'd like to see a return to the corner grocery store instead of supermarkets. Mini-marts are great, but everything is more expensive and there is a lot less variety.

He addresses that point somewhat in the articles. The mega-grocery chains have the price advantage due to economy of scale, but that's primarily a function of purchasing. By creating corner grocers that are essentially a distribution point for the same company, the price advantage can be largely maintained, and there is the added savings in that one no longer has to pay to drive to the store. It might even be possible to run such an operation out of the back of a truck.

Waste is the other major enemy of the food industry, but many grocery chains already track purchases by customer. This data could easily be used to tailor the stock of each local grocer to the surrounding customers. Less common items could be ordered in advance, and if an extra trip to pick them up were needed, it would be much less of a burden.

 

[HadleyH]

Pedestrian or not I'm a devil at the wheel lol lol
and you know what?
I like it!



Well...not a devil but I do like going fast...yes,yes in a careful manner, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast

 

[Diamondback]

Pedestrian or not I'm a devil at the wheel lol lol
and you know what?
I like it!



Well...not a devil but I do like going fast...yes,yes in a careful manner, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast

EEEEEEEK! Remind me never to let you get anywhere near either of my computer-controlled-Firebird projects...

 

[Tango Yankee]

Hmmm... 5 pages of comments and not one suggesting motorcycles or scooters!

There have been many good comments regarding the issues of public transporation, urban/suburban/rural living and transportation, etc.

I've never really lived where I could use public transportation regularly. In the late '70s I lived near downtown Long Beach and worked in a factory in Vernon. When I didn't have a working car I had to take the bus, which meant catching it at 0400 in the morning. Not fun. The rail lines and subways didn't exist, just the RTD.

Instead I bought my first motorcycle. Low cost to buy, low cost to operate, lots of fun. Yes, there is the issue of weather, but one can wear the proper gear for that. Motorcycles and scooters cause less wear and tear on the roads, use less gasoline, take less space to park. Get the right scooter and you can haul a lot of groceries under the seat. There are other luggage options, too.

Yes, yes, I'm sure that people will bring up the "they're too dangerous" argument, but I would feel safer on a bike than on a bus where I'm afraid to close my eyes. Take a MSF course, learn strategies for dealing with traffic and other issues, then ride to work!

Clothing is another issue I'm sure would be brought up. I wear a riding suit that slips easily on and off over street clothes. Carry a pair of shoes to change into if you can't wear your boots all day (don't people often do that when commuting in the big city--wear sneakers to and from work and change into dress shoes once there?)

I wish planners would take motorcycles and scooters into consideration when doing their planning. Encourage their use by putting in motorcycle parking--which takes up less space than car parking. Heck, put it in the areas at the end of the rows of car parking! (Many riders park there, but some places will ticket you for not parking in a full slot.)

This year's annual Ride to Work Day is July 18th.

Remember: Work to Ride, Ride to Work!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Viola]

I was eyeing Vespas recently, Tango Yankee. I'd be kind of scared on major roads though.

-Viola

 

[carebear]

Public transport takes money, just like every other public service. If you have a municipal area that has chosen to spend its money on other sorts of services, the share of the pie for PT is less.

If the muni starts raising taxes and fees to provide for a bigger pie, the folks and businesses who can afford to are (sensibly) going to leave for somewhere with lower property taxes. Especially those that don't want to live cheek-by-jowl anyway.

That leads to a decrease in the productive tax base, from two directions. The people and businesses with the scratch to pay their taxes but who don't want to be ripped off flee so they can keep more of their money and then the people who remain don't have the quality jobs to earn enough to support the remaining businesses, which again lowers the quality of life and leads to more people and businesses fleeing or moving to where they can afford to live in a decent style.

In the end the only people left are those who absolutely can't afford to go anywhere else, and because there are no jobs anymore, they end up needing increased muni services, further taking from the shrinking tax pie.

By that point, the muni is desperate to support itself and starts selling out cheap to developers who can negotiate better taxes and have the scratch to pay them, but who then quite sensibly market to high-rollers who DO want the urban experience and can make their risky investment worthwhile. But they want to live in style, so the blight and its remaining inhabitants have to be moved.

Unintended consequences of trying to help people out in the first place.
Urban planning, especially through mandate and zoning, has to tread carefully when it comes to intruding into existing urban scenarios. As mentioned, it's easier to have success when you are dealing with ground-up creation of "ideal" urban centers, and it is predisposed on ensuring the maintainance of a producing tax base.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I'll take public transportation if it involves flanged wheels on rails

I'm all for restructuring cities for efficient land use, with residential and commercial coexisting as they did for centuries before the automobile.

But I'm not one to live in it. Heck, if I had my way, I wouldn't have a neighbor within five miles of me.

I could see myself driving a few miles to a train station and catching commuter rail into the city, though.

Brad

 

[Tango Yankee]

I'll take public transportation if it involves flanged wheels on rails

I could see myself driving a few miles to a train station and catching commuter rail into the city, though.

I'm with you, Brad. I live in a rural area, few jobs. I'm pretty sure I'll wind up working in Columbus, a straight shot up US23, about 75 miles just to the southern edge of the city. A lot of people make that commute. A commuter train running alongside 23 from Portsmouth to Columbus would be great! I'd use it.

Won't happen, though. I can't speak to the public transport in Columbus itself, but if you're going to have commuter trains into a city then you need a good PT system to get people to where they're going once you're there. I really liked it in England, where I could drive about 15 minutes to a train station, buy a single ticket, an hour later be in London King's Cross station and use that same ticket all over the city (the tube and busses) and then on the way back home.

Despite my earlier post I probably wouldn't use my bike much, either, because it is a straight and boring ride that would go through a lot of rear tires (such riding tends to have a wear pattern that flattens the rear tread--the edges don't stay rounded since you're taking many curves.) I'm doing it several times a week now for training and I drive my Cruiser. This allows me to listen to books, which keeps me from begruding the time spent commuting so much. These days it's about the only "reading" time I have!

Viola, I understand. As with all things, confidence comes with experience. My wife took the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Basic Rider Course a couple of years ago but never rode her motorcycle after getting her license. The reason? We have a curving, sloped gravel driveway that ends on a state route heavily travelled by fast-moving trucks and cars. She wasn't confident enough to deal with that, and I don't blame her. Unfortunately, I was still stationed in South Carolina at the time so wasn't able to take her out for more practice away from the highway. We wound up giving her bike to our son, who wanted to learn how to ride. She would like a scooter if we wind up moving to a more urban environment.

Cheers,
Tom

PS I've not lived in this rural an environment before and if there is one word to describe it that word is inconvenient.

 

[jamespowers]

Public transport takes money, just like every other public service. If you have a municipal area that has chosen to spend its money on other sorts of services, the share of the pie for PT is less.

If the muni starts raising taxes and fees to provide for a bigger pie, the folks and businesses who can afford to are (sensibly) going to leave for somewhere with lower property taxes. Especially those that don't want to live cheek-by-jowl anyway.

That leads to a decrease in the productive tax base, from two directions. The people and businesses with the scratch to pay their taxes but who don't want to be ripped off flee so they can keep more of their money and then the people who remain don't have the quality jobs to earn enough to support the remaining businesses, which again lowers the quality of life and leads to more people and businesses fleeing or moving to where they can afford to live in a decent style.

In the end the only people left are those who absolutely can't afford to go anywhere else, and because there are no jobs anymore, they end up needing increased muni services, further taking from the shrinking tax pie.

By that point, the muni is desperate to support itself and starts selling out cheap to developers who can negotiate better taxes and have the scratch to pay them, but who then quite sensibly market to high-rollers who DO want the urban experience and can make their risky investment worthwhile. But they want to live in style, so the blight and its remaining inhabitants have to be moved.

Unintended consequences of trying to help people out in the first place.
Urban planning, especially through mandate and zoning, has to tread carefully when it comes to intruding into existing urban scenarios. As mentioned, it's easier to have success when you are dealing with ground-up creation of "ideal" urban centers, and it is predisposed on ensuring the maintainance of a producing tax base.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned Ghettoization. The pit they dig just keeps getting deeper until you have to tear it down and start all over, which ends up kicking out the low income inhabitants anyway. :eusa_doh:
As mentioned, people commute to jobs from outlying areas because they cannot afford to buy homes in the general area they work. This has happened with many people I went to high school with. They commute 100 miles to their jobs here. They live in outlying areas like Oakley, Stockton and Tracy. What started out fifteen years ago as cheap housing has in fact, risen in value and thus so has their initial investment. Many could sell there and move here if they wish but they don't. I suppose they like living miles from anyone too.

Regards,

J

 

[Paisley]

As mentioned, people commute to jobs from outlying areas because they cannot afford to buy homes in the general area they work.

Or they move to Denver. Really.

 

[Joie DeVive]

Living proof

Or they move to Denver. Really.

She's actually not kidding. That's how I ended up here! lol

 

[jamespowers]

Or they move to Denver. Really.

How do I get more to go to Denver? We could use their parking spaces and room on the freeways.

Regards,

J

 

[jamespowers]

She's actually not kidding. That's how I ended up here! lol

Wait, wait, not you. :eusa_doh: Some day things will change.

 

[Paisley]

How do I get more to go to Denver? We could use their parking spaces and room on the freeways.

Regards,

J

Keep raising your taxes and don't build any more houses. Almost everyone I've met in Colorado who came from California said they moved here because they couldn't afford to live, or at least buy a house, in California. And I don't care much if more people move here. Englewood, the suburb where I live, is fully developed and landlocked. Eventually, though, we'll need more buses going downtown.

 

[jamespowers]

Keep raising your taxes and don't build any more houses. Almost everyone I've met in Colorado who came from California said they moved here because they couldn't afford to live, or at least buy a house, in California. And I don't care much if more people move here. Englewood, the suburb where I live, is fully developed and landlocked. Eventually, though, we'll need more buses going downtown.

lol lol lol
Its not my intention or even within my power to raise taxes or thwart building. You have to look toward the city 100 miles north of me for that.
How about if we round up the "leaders" in Sacramento and send them to Colorado on buses for you? Without them we might be able to get lower taxes and build more in areas that are totally open.

Regards,

J

 

[Paisley]

lol lol lol
Its not my intention or even within my power to raise taxes or thwart building. You have to look toward the city 100 miles north of me for that.
How about if we round up the "leaders" in Sacramento and send them to Colorado on buses for you? Without them we might be able to get lower taxes and build more in areas that are totally open.

Regards,

J

Oh, you meant you personally. Why don't you find some bright, young, ambitious people and buy them a one-way ticket for a Greyhound bus to Denver.

 

[jamespowers]

Oh, you meant you personally. Why don't you find some bright, young, ambitious people and buy them a one-way ticket for a Greyhound bus to Denver.

Oh no! Those people stay. We don't have enough of those. The tickets I would buy would be for the total opposite of what you wrote. I would give one way tickets to people like these:

Regards,

J

 

[Diamondback]

lol lol lol
Its not my intention or even within my power to raise taxes or thwart building. You have to look toward the city 100 miles north of me for that.
How about if we round up the "leaders" in Sacramento and send them to Colorado on buses for you? Without them we might be able to get lower taxes and build more in areas that are totally open.

There you go again, exporting the Cali-cancer somewhere else to metastasize. Gee, thanks--you're the ones who messed up Oregon and Washington! :rage: Seems like at least once a week, some joker with California tags tries to run me over in the crosswalk... *fuming*