The International Wool Felt Consortium

[WonkyBloke]

I think this thread seems to be the right one to potentially make a fool of myself (Please do feel free to jump in and address any foolish naivety on my part)

I'm very new to this game, and have many stumbling block to trip over yet, but so far I am rather liking wool, for several reasons:

1) Cost. I can buy a whole new hat for the price of getting a fur reblocked.
2) Low cost allows me to make more mistakes (for example, I think I should have gotten a size larger for the two felts I have). It also makes me less worried about my young nephews and nieces mauling them.
3) I'm clumsy and frequently dysfunctional due to health issues. As such, I'm not confident enough that I can give a fur felt the care and respect it deserves, and I'd much rather wreck a £40 hat than a £140 one. Loss and damage here, is not a matter of if, but when.
4) So what if wool has a limited lifespan. So do I. Plus when a wool hat expires, I have a legitimate reason to buy a new hat

Please don't misconstrue this as an "anti-fur" post, it really isn't. I'm just not convinced that's the right thing for me at this moment in time. I would actually love to get myself a Christy's Foldaway eventually, as the proportions look about right for me from what I understand so far, but I think I would want to visit a proper brick and mortar retailer to try one first. However, that means taking a train journey to go visit a city that might have one.

So one day, yes, I think a fur felt may fall into my possession. For the time being though, I'm going to keep paddling in the shallow end of the pool. If I'm going to keep buying hats, which I think is highly probable, I really don't mind if natural selection expires a few along the way.

However, I also like cotton too, and leather, and I'm not averse to wool in a cap, or tweed in a trilby (depending on the shape). I already have a leather coachman hat inbound, and am very tempted to grab a narrower brimmed cotton hat for out and about in the sun (my wider brimmed cottons are great for lounging in the garden or at a BBQ, but larger than I'd want for heading into town shopping). I'm semi-tempted for an oilskin too, for when I know the sky will be leaking badly, without fear of having to take any special pampering or remedial actions afterwards.

Eventually I'll find "my" style, and will probably want to upgrade something. I'm not there yet though, and will continue to play the field wide at low risk, rather than commit to anything "serious" just yet. My tastes are too eclectic, and my curiosity too unfocused at present, not to mention my understanding of what's right for me (in function as well as aesthetics) being embryonic at best.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I think this thread seems to be the right one to potentially make a fool of myself (Please do feel free to jump in and address any foolish naivety on my part)

I'm very new to this game, and have many stumbling block to trip over yet, but so far I am rather liking wool, for several reasons:

1) Cost. I can buy a whole new hat for the price of getting a fur reblocked.
2) Low cost allows me to make more mistakes (for example, I think I should have gotten a size larger for the two felts I have). It also makes me less worried about my young nephews and nieces mauling them.
3) I'm clumsy and frequently dysfunctional due to health issues. As such, I'm not confident enough that I can give a fur felt the care and respect it deserves, and I'd much rather wreck a £40 hat than a £140 one. Loss and damage here, is not a matter of if, but when.
4) So what if wool has a limited lifespan. So do I. Plus when a wool hat expires, I have a legitimate reason to buy a new hat

Please don't misconstrue this as an "anti-fur" post, it really isn't. I'm just not convinced that's the right thing for me at this moment in time. I would actually love to get myself a Christy's Foldaway eventually, as the proportions look about right for me from what I understand so far, but I think I would want to visit a proper brick and mortar retailer to try one first. However, that means taking a train journey to go visit a city that might have one.

So one day, yes, I think a fur felt may fall into my possession. For the time being though, I'm going to keep paddling in the shallow end of the pool. If I'm going to keep buying hats, which I think is highly probable, I really don't mind if natural selection expires a few along the way.

However, I also like cotton too, and leather, and I'm not averse to wool in a cap, or tweed in a trilby (depending on the shape). I already have a leather coachman hat inbound, and am very tempted to grab a narrower brimmed cotton hat for out and about in the sun (my wider brimmed cottons are great for lounging in the garden or at a BBQ, but larger than I'd want for heading into town shopping). I'm semi-tempted for an oilskin too, for when I know the sky will be leaking badly, without fear of having to take any special pampering or remedial actions afterwards.

Eventually I'll find "my" style, and will probably want to upgrade something. I'm not there yet though, and will continue to play the field wide at low risk, rather than commit to anything "serious" just yet. My tastes are too eclectic, and my curiosity too unfocused at present, not to mention my understanding of what's right for me (in function as well as aesthetics) being embryonic at best.

Nothing at all wrong with your process. You might end up with some wool hats that you don’t wear much after you get into fur felt, but so what?

Now, what if you can get a vintage fur felt hat for the price of your new wool hats? If you have a vintage sized head, you can get some incredible fur felt hats for a bargain.

 

[steur]

I think this thread seems to be the right one to potentially make a fool of myself (Please do feel free to jump in and address any foolish naivety on my part)

I'm very new to this game, and have many stumbling block to trip over yet, but so far I am rather liking wool, for several reasons:

1) Cost. I can buy a whole new hat for the price of getting a fur reblocked.
2) Low cost allows me to make more mistakes (for example, I think I should have gotten a size larger for the two felts I have). It also makes me less worried about my young nephews and nieces mauling them.
3) I'm clumsy and frequently dysfunctional due to health issues. As such, I'm not confident enough that I can give a fur felt the care and respect it deserves, and I'd much rather wreck a £40 hat than a £140 one. Loss and damage here, is not a matter of if, but when.
4) So what if wool has a limited lifespan. So do I. Plus when a wool hat expires, I have a legitimate reason to buy a new hat

Please don't misconstrue this as an "anti-fur" post, it really isn't. I'm just not convinced that's the right thing for me at this moment in time. I would actually love to get myself a Christy's Foldaway eventually, as the proportions look about right for me from what I understand so far, but I think I would want to visit a proper brick and mortar retailer to try one first. However, that means taking a train journey to go visit a city that might have one.

So one day, yes, I think a fur felt may fall into my possession. For the time being though, I'm going to keep paddling in the shallow end of the pool. If I'm going to keep buying hats, which I think is highly probable, I really don't mind if natural selection expires a few along the way.

However, I also like cotton too, and leather, and I'm not averse to wool in a cap, or tweed in a trilby (depending on the shape). I already have a leather coachman hat inbound, and am very tempted to grab a narrower brimmed cotton hat for out and about in the sun (my wider brimmed cottons are great for lounging in the garden or at a BBQ, but larger than I'd want for heading into town shopping). I'm semi-tempted for an oilskin too, for when I know the sky will be leaking badly, without fear of having to take any special pampering or remedial actions afterwards.

Eventually I'll find "my" style, and will probably want to upgrade something. I'm not there yet though, and will continue to play the field wide at low risk, rather than commit to anything "serious" just yet. My tastes are too eclectic, and my curiosity too unfocused at present, not to mention my understanding of what's right for me (in function as well as aesthetics) being embryonic at best.

There's nothing wrong with woolfelt hats if these fit your needs and possibilities of the moment. Like Brent said: if you have the size for it and don't object to vintage there are some wonderful hats to be found for excellent prices.

 

[steur]

I have neglected the woolfelt thread to be honest. Here are a few.
Arlesia, woolfelt lords hat in brown. French made. Brim at 6cm and crown 10,5cm at the center dent.

 

[steur]

Mossant in black, camber style hat, which seems to have been popular in France. Size 56 with the overwelt brim at 5cm and the crown at 11cm at the center dent. Very soft felt and a nice hand but it is a woolfelt. It's styling and finishes, like the non-flexible windcord and the textured sweatband, make me think this is an early, pre-war one. The label is not the usual Mossant label, which could mean it was an outsourced hat.

 

[steur]

Cambiaghi fedora in woolfelt. Size 56 with the brim at 6cm and the imposing crown at 11 cm at the center dent. The brim is somewhat stiffer than the crown and shapes well (the crown needed a bit more persuasion). The Italian hatters from Monza could work wonders in wool and this is one of those survivor hats. The workmanship on the sweatband is wonderful to see. These woolfelts are dustmagnets though; every bit of fluff can be seen on those black felts...

 

[WonkyBloke]

Nothing at all wrong with your process. You might end up with some wool hats that you don’t wear much after you get into fur felt, but so what?

Now, what if you can get a vintage fur felt hat for the price of your new wool hats? If you have a vintage sized head, you can get some incredible fur felt hats for a bargain.

There's nothing wrong with woolfelt hats if these fit your needs and possibilities of the moment. Like Brent said: if you have the size for it and don't object to vintage there are some wonderful hats to be found for excellent prices.

Thank you both! Size wise, I need a 58 or 59. The ones I've bought are 57, and are a little too snug. I haven't looked too closely at vintage, as I don't know the pitfalls yet, and what to look for to avoid them. It's simply too appealing to buy something that comes with a warranty, for want of a better term. I confess that I also like knowing that my head is the first one the haat has been on.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thank you both! Size wise, I need a 58 or 59. The ones I've bought are 57, and are a little too snug. I haven't looked too closely at vintage, as I don't know the pitfalls yet, and what to look for to avoid them. It's simply too appealing to buy something that comes with a warranty, for want of a better term. I confess that I also like knowing that my head is the first one the haat has been on.

A lot of us find it off-putting the first time we contemplate wearing a “used” vintage hat. However, as the quality and prices are both exponentially better you’ll soon stop caring. A quick clean and brushing and you’ll never look back.

unfortunately, at 58-59cm you’re out of the size range where the best deals are found. Still, with an investment in time you’ll find some great vintage hats if you ever decide to go that way.

 

[WonkyBloke]

A lot of us find it off-putting the first time we contemplate wearing a “used” vintage hat. However, as the quality and prices are both exponentially better you’ll soon stop caring. A quick clean and brushing and you’ll never look back.

unfortunately, at 58-59cm you’re out of the size range where the best deals are found. Still, with an investment in time you’ll find some great vintage hats if you ever decide to go that way.

Thanks again. In fairness, my head itself is probably a 57, or would be with short hair. However, with long hair (somewhere between mid back and waist length), the hat "walks" off the bump at the back of my head, due to the movement of hair as I walk. As such, I've yet to discover the best fit for hats to stay put. My next (budget) purchases will be 58 and 59, to see whether I can walk a mile or two, without having to reset the hat periodically. Yet another reason to stay in the shallow end of the pool for a while.

 

[belfastboy]

Mossant in black, camber style hat, which seems to have been popular in France. Size 56 with the overwelt brim at 5cm and the crown at 11cm at the center dent. Very soft felt and a nice hand but it is a woolfelt. It's styling and finishes, like the non-flexible windcord and the textured sweatband, make me think this is an early, pre-war one. The label is not the usual Mossant label, which could mean it was an outsourced hat.

I love the short/fat ...stubby bow work.

 

[WonkyBloke]

As to my current wool hats, the two I wish I'd bought in the next size up, I have a blues trilby and a bowler. Both these are by Jaxons.





These may not be a perfect fit for me, but have given me the confidence to explore wool felt hats further. Particularly in smaller brims (up to maybe 65mm) and with crowns up to maybe 100mm total height.

I have had wider and taller hats in the past, but that's not what looks best on me. However, I will sometimes forgive aesthetics for function. My largest hat is my Jaxons Safari, which I think is a great hat for protection from the elements, but a bolder coloured felt fedora of similar proportions would be totally overwhelming on my noggin.



As to felt hats, trilbys, stingy brimmed fedoras, homburgs, are probably all in my future. Most of them in wool. A genre defying open crowned Christy's Foldaway is the only fur felt I'm considering so far. Maybe later in the year, or even next year.

Till then, I've seen a nubuck I like the look of, I'm tempted for a linen flat cap, wouldn't mind an oilskin mid-sized brimmed hat and gore-tex (or similar) baseball type cap. Then of course, there's the smaller brimmed cotton summer hat I mentioned earlier. There's a very strong chance of patchwork tweed joining the array too.

As you can probably tell, I have very diverse tastes. The rest of my wardrobe, and the wonky bloke wrapped up in it all, are NOT of a fixed style. Some people may view me as looking like a biker, a musician, a hippy, or just be confused as to what the heck I'm "supposed to be". I don't much care about other people's classifications though, whenever I look in the mirror, I just see me.

I feel comfortable in a hoodie, smart casual, hiking gear, or an evening suit. The personality remains consistent regardless of attire. My vests and waistcoats run from quilted, to suede, to corduroy, to satin, to wool, to sequined, to backless white Marcella, and my headgear will follow the same freedoms and flexibility.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

As to my current wool hats, the two I wish I'd bought in the next size up, I have a blues trilby and a bowler. Both these are by Jaxons.

View attachment 333434

View attachment 333435

These may not be a perfect fit for me, but have given me the confidence to explore wool felt hats further. Particularly in smaller brims (up to maybe 65mm) and with crowns up to maybe 100mm total height.

I have had wider and taller hats in the past, but that's not what looks best on me. However, I will sometimes forgive aesthetics for function. My largest hat is my Jaxons Safari, which I think is a great hat for protection from the elements, but a bolder coloured felt fedora of similar proportions would be totally overwhelming on my noggin.

View attachment 333437

As to felt hats, trilbys, stingy brimmed fedoras, homburgs, are probably all in my future. Most of them in wool. A genre defying open crowned Christy's Foldaway is the only fur felt I'm considering so far. Maybe later in the year, or even next year.

Till then, I've seen a nubuck I like the look of, I'm tempted for a linen flat cap, wouldn't mind an oilskin mid-sized brimmed hat and gore-tex (or similar) baseball type cap. Then of course, there's the smaller brimmed cotton summer hat I mentioned earlier. There's a very strong chance of patchwork tweed joining the array too.

As you can probably tell, I have very diverse tastes. The rest of my wardrobe, and the wonky bloke wrapped up in it all, are NOT of a fixed style. Some people may view me as looking like a biker, a musician, a hippy, or just be confused as to what the heck I'm "supposed to be". I don't much care about other people's classifications though, whenever I look in the mirror, I just see me.

I feel comfortable in a hoodie, smart casual, hiking gear, or an evening suit. The personality remains consistent regardless of attire. My vests and waistcoats run from quilted, to suede, to corduroy, to satin, to wool, to sequined, to backless white Marcella, and my headgear will follow the same freedoms and flexibility.

The oft repeated arc has those new-to-hats starting with smaller and less intimidating proportions moving up in brim width and often crown height if they keep experimenting. There are limits, but I’ve yet to see anyone who doesn’t look good in a 2 5/8 to 2 3/4 inch (6.5 to 7cm) brim hat. It’s mostly getting past the shock of it and seeing it honestly. I still like the occasional stingy brim, but there’s a reason why most here gravitate to the wider brims.

After you find your personal sweet spot we can talk about custom hats. Bespoke to your exact preferences. No shortage of folks here to help you spend your money.

 

[WonkyBloke]

The oft repeated arc has those new-to-hats starting with smaller and less intimidating proportions moving up in brim width and often crown height if they keep experimenting. There are limits, but I’ve yet to see anyone who doesn’t look good in a 2 5/8 to 2 3/4 inch (6.5 to 7cm) brim hat. It’s mostly getting past the shock of it and seeing it honestly. I still like the occasional stingy brim, but there’s a reason why most here gravitate to the wider brims.

After you find your personal sweet spot we can talk about custom hats. Bespoke to your exact preferences. No shortage of folks here to help you spend your money.

I think there's a time and a place for everything, and I'm a fan of the function of hats, as well as the looks. A wide brim while sat in the sun with a G&T is one thing, but wide brims catch the breeze to easily. As a disabled guy, I'm in no state to go chasing my hat that's tumbling and dancing its down the street.

In years past, I had a Barmah Sundowner Roo. Great in the rain, terrible in the wind. Even if it stopped on my head, the brim would be flapping all over. It was great for moderate sun too, but I would bake in it on really hot days. That hat's been AWOL for a few years now, but the lessons remain, much as they do with other hats I've had. My wider brims will be reserved to still and hot days, in cotton, canvas, and straw. Mid brims and stingy brims, I'm more open minded about.

 

[Zombie_61]

The oft repeated arc has those new-to-hats starting with smaller and less intimidating proportions moving up in brim width and often crown height if they keep experimenting. There are limits, but I’ve yet to see anyone who doesn’t look good in a 2 5/8 to 2 3/4 inch (6.5 to 7cm) brim hat. It’s mostly getting past the shock of it and seeing it honestly. I still like the occasional stingy brim, but there’s a reason why most here gravitate to the wider brims...

And then there are the oddballs like me who started out with 2-1/2" wide brims, went up to 3" brims, decided that was more than enough for me, and went down to 2" "stingy" brims. But I've only been doing this for 12-13 years, so I'm still somewhat new to the habit of wearing hats myself.

 

[mayserwegener]

Up to WWII a large percentage of the European Stiff Felts were made of Wool.

Here is a really fine example made from Negretti Wool. You can see how dense and smooth the Wool Felt is and the hat weight is 110 grams so very light weight. One problem is lint collection.

"Adonis" Made in Germany but No Company Mark, probably early 1900s.

Negretti Merino

These sheep grew also a very fine wool but showed a low-set compact body. While great stress was laid on the quantity of greasy wool yield and dense wool growth, the tough skin finally developed heavy folds on the neck rump, haunches and tail. The fine wool produced was especially known for its high content of lower solving grease. At the beginning of the 19th century, breeding activities in the former Prussian provinces of Silesia and Brandenburg tended to overcome the disadvantage of overemphasized breeding developments of the Electorals and Negrettis. They tried to combine the adverse advantages of both breeds by combination. This resulted in a fine wool type called the "Eskurial" or "German Thoroughbred Sheep". In the middle of the last century, the production of superfine wool ceased, due to the requirement of longer, coarser and less crimped wool. Breeding of the former type of sheep became unprofitable through insufficient yield and falling prices for finest wool.

History of German Merino strains

The basis of the German Merino gene pool was founded by limited importation of Merino stock from Spain about 240 years ago to the central German provinces of Saxon and Brandenburg in a temperate climate, with moderate precipitation ranging from 400 to 800 mm/y. The importation to the Electorate of Saxony, as a royal present of best Merinos, represents the nucleus of so-called Electoral sheep (Fig. 1). The appearance of the animals was fairly uniform. The live weight of a sheep was from 25 to 30 kg.

 

[Uncle Will]

I'm seeking advice on shrinking this pretty awful wool hat I got as payment for a handyman job for an old feller. I didn't want money and I knew he wears hats, so I asked him if if he had an old hat! He got one from the closet and handed this one
to me. His bean is 7-3/4 while mine is a 7-3/8, so it's too big for me. Being wool, this baby will shrink, but I think it has to be done carefully, or the crown/brim transition might change from a 90° corner to having a noticeable radius. That's my major concern.
They say to pop the hat into the dryer on high heat and don't let it burn, but I was wondering if a person who likes to form his own hats can use a more controlled method. A hair dryer? Do I even need to worry about using a more controlled method than the clothes dryer?
The color was a grey-green, but after washing it in a wide bucket of water with a little dish soap, then rinsing it clean it is more like a washed-out 1970s Avocado Green hat color. The leather sweat band was rotten and I removed it and the remaining stitching. If I can get it to shrink and then hot glue in a sweat band, maybe I'll look into dyeing it.
All this work on this pretty awful hat would be done to help me learn more about hats and how to change them without necessarily ruining them. Thank you all, I came here because some good people gave me great advice that worked on reshaping a black Stetson yard sale cowboy hat a few months ago.
What type of hat is this? It has a very floppy brim. Do you think shellac would help keep a shape? Is using shellac on this hat a wrong-ish idea? Thanks again!

 

[belfastboy]

Up to WWII a large percentage of the European Stiff Felts were made of Wool.

Here is a really fine example made from Negretti Wool. You can see how dense and smooth the Wool Felt is and the hat weight is 110 grams so very light weight. One problem is lint collection.

"Adonis" Made in Germany but No Company Mark, probably early 1900s.

Negretti Merino

These sheep grew also a very fine wool but showed a low-set compact body. While great stress was laid on the quantity of greasy wool yield and dense wool growth, the tough skin finally developed heavy folds on the neck rump, haunches and tail. The fine wool produced was especially known for its high content of lower solving grease. At the beginning of the 19th century, breeding activities in the former Prussian provinces of Silesia and Brandenburg tended to overcome the disadvantage of overemphasized breeding developments of the Electorals and Negrettis. They tried to combine the adverse advantages of both breeds by combination. This resulted in a fine wool type called the "Eskurial" or "German Thoroughbred Sheep". In the middle of the last century, the production of superfine wool ceased, due to the requirement of longer, coarser and less crimped wool. Breeding of the former type of sheep became unprofitable through insufficient yield and falling prices for finest wool.

History of German Merino strains

The basis of the German Merino gene pool was founded by limited importation of Merino stock from Spain about 240 years ago to the central German provinces of Saxon and Brandenburg in a temperate climate, with moderate precipitation ranging from 400 to 800 mm/y. The importation to the Electorate of Saxony, as a royal present of best Merinos, represents the nucleus of so-called Electoral sheep (Fig. 1). The appearance of the animals was fairly uniform. The live weight of a sheep was from 25 to 30 kg.

My wife is a fabric artist specializing in wool...from the raw fleece to finished product. It is amazing how much the fibre from the different breeds varies in length, thickness, softness, etc. Each breed has different characteristics and it is important to match the characteristics to the intended end product.

 

[mayserwegener]

My wife is a fabric artist specializing in wool...from the raw fleece to finished product. It is amazing how much the fibre from the different breeds varies in length, thickness, softness, etc. Each breed has different characteristics and it is important to match the characteristics to the intended end product.

That was definitely the case for European Wool Hat Felt production up to WWII. Also the treatment of the Wool caused different characteristics. I have a good deal of information on Wool Felt production and Wool Stiff and Soft Felt Hat production from that time period but it's all in German.

 

[Edward]

I have neglected the woolfelt thread to be honest. Here are a few.
Arlesia, woolfelt lords hat in brown. French made. Brim at 6cm and crown 10,5cm at the center dent.

This is an absolute beauty. The point is well made in posts above that wool quality varies... The main reasons I have shied away from wool in recent years is that the wool hats I had were quite 'course', as well as lacking snap brims. That said, I've recently been eyeing up a couple of Christies pork-pies in wool. They look smooth enough, and it seems that the brim on those being much narrower has the capacity to be snapped down in front. I've realised there is in me now something of a knee-jerk snobbery in favour of fur, but I'm minded to at least handle a couple of these in wool; if I'm right about being able to wear the front of the brim down, I may well indulge...

 

[Uncle Will]

I'm seeking advice on shrinking this pretty awful wool hat I got as payment for a handyman job for an old feller. I didn't want money and I knew he wears hats, so I asked him if if he had an old hat! He got one from the closet and handed this one View attachment 337110
to me. His bean is 7-3/4 while mine is a 7-3/8, so it's too big for me. Being wool, this baby will shrink, but I think it has to be done carefully, or the crown/brim transition might change from a 90° corner to having a noticeable radius. That's my major concern.
They say to pop the hat into the dryer on high heat and don't let it burn, but I was wondering if a person who likes to form his own hats can use a more controlled method. A hair dryer? Do I even need to worry about using a more controlled method than the clothes dryer?
The color was a grey-green, but after washing it in a wide bucket of water with a little dish soap, then rinsing it clean it is more like a washed-out 1970s Avocado Green hat color. The leather sweat band was rotten and I removed it and the remaining stitching. If I can get it to shrink and then hot glue in a sweat band, maybe I'll look into dyeing it.
All this work on this pretty awful hat would be done to help me learn more about hats and how to change them without necessarily ruining them. Thank you all, I came here because some good people gave me great advice that worked on reshaping a black Stetson yard sale cowboy hat a few months ago.
What type of hat is this? It has a very floppy brim. Do you think shellac would help keep a shape? Is using shellac on this hat a wrong-ish idea? Thanks again!

.

I don't think this Merino wool hat will shrink enough to fit my head. I wet it thoroughly with hot water, let it dry and it's not smaller. I tossed the still-damp hat into the clothes dryer and the wool shrinkage is still not noticeable! This is not what I expected! I'm going to wet the hat again and dry it all the way in the dryer. The hat will rumple up and look a mess, but it can be reshaped. Will return with more info.