The general decline in standards today

[Widebrim]

Typical.

Working in a country where you are not a citizen and being paid under the table is a scam. Everyone else has to work and pay income tax, but its okay for this man, because he's a "minority." As soon as someone suggests that this should be reported, someone else will pull the minority card. So we all have to turn our heads and let the minority get away with murder - Or in this case, assaulting a co-worker - because it would be racist if we said something.

A black youth gets pulled over for a busted taillight: Racial profiling. An Aboriginal man gets arrested for parading the streets drunk: Infringement of fundamental rights. A Sikh man won't wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle: Religious persecution. These are laws that everyone has to abide by for the safety of themselves and others. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it.

In Tom's case, that man should be fired and taken to the police, no question - And if he were any other American man, he would be.

Well said. We have certain standards and laws which exist to protect the general populace, and to ensure the greater good. While we do have fundamental human rights, and these must be respected, it is not all about me and my right to do whatever I want, especially if I think that my particular group has been maligned in the past.

I believe that society should (to a certain extent) take its cue from the armed forces, where pulling the "whatever" card still doesn't get you very far. During my time in service, I saw men of all different ethnicities/religious backgrounds not only equally rise to the top, but just as equally get their behinds delivered to them in a sling. (I say "men" because I didn't really serve with females.) We were taught that in the Army there is only one color, and that's green. I recall one White kid referring to an NCO as a Black sergeant; another Black NCO immediately got on the kid's case, and yelled that there are no "Black sergeants," just green ones. In the service, if you mess up, you get "smoked;" it's that simple, and trying to make it a racial/religious issue usually gets you no sympathy.

 

[Tomasso]

in the Army there is only one color, and that's green.

Same thing goes in civilian life.

 

[Widebrim]

Same thing goes in civilian life.

It should be, Tomasso...Although can we make it something more appealing, like maybe scarlet?

 

[Tomasso]

It should be, Tomasso...Although can we make it something more appealing, like maybe scarlet?

Well, I'm partial to greenbacks.....though I certainly do appreciate the aesthetics of other currencies.

 

[Widebrim]

Well, I'm partial to greenbacks.....though I certainly do appreciate the aesthetics of other currencies.

Oh, well if that's what you meant, then that's a horse of a different color...

 

[Gregg Axley]

I agree Tomasso, green is a good color.
I could elaborate on Widebrim's comment about taking a cue from the armed forces, but it's too late for me and the wine is catching up.
Maybe tomorrow.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

As an "employer" the issue of what may happen at either of my businesses has always been of a concern. I tend to think all employers do have legal obligations towards those they employ and for the most part, if one employee strikes another it is time for the authorities to be called. So far, I have been lucky that I feel confident from interviews before hiring anyone, to weed out the bad apples.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

From what I have been informed, the U.S. Military has changed very much in how they act towards the "men" that serve. As a U.S. Navy vet, I am not really thrilled about some of those changes. I personally think the Military has become weaker in nature due to having to be "politically correct", and in having to be a bit more "mamby bamby" in how they deal with training. I am not really against females to serve, but I have to say I dislike the idea of a woman in combat or stationed on board a ship.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I think it's sad how they're doing this to the Military. Isn't a goal of Military training to be able to handle the worst the enemy has to offer? I've had some people tell me that what the training is now, compared to years ago is like comparing boot camp to summer camp. I can't say, as I haven't served.

From what I have been informed, the U.S. Military has changed very much in how they act towards the "men" that serve. As a U.S. Navy vet, I am not really thrilled about some of those changes. I personally think the Military has become weaker in nature due to having to be "politically correct", and in having to be a bit more "mamby bamby" in how they deal with training. I am not really against females to serve, but I have to say I dislike the idea of a woman in combat or stationed on board a ship.

He is just a bad person, it has nothing to do with color. I was told that years ago, he tried to sell his sister into prostitution......

Because he is Hispanic, he is allowed to assault people? He is persecuted and misunderstood, so everyone should feel sorry for this violent individual, right?

In this day and age, and even before, people of all ethnicities have risen above their backgrounds and achieved things. Nobody told this guy to become an illegal migrant worker and punch an old man. That is wrong and he should be punished. I don't care if you're a poor Hispanic or a rich Swede, you can't hit people.

This is a classic example of pulling the minority card - You mustn't say anything, because that would be "intolerant." This kind of thinking is not an advancement from real racial prejudice, in fact it's just as backward. Once again, we haven't moved forward, we've moved sideways.

 

[C-dot]

I believe that society should (to a certain extent) take its cue from the armed forces, where pulling the "whatever" card still doesn't get you very far. During my time in service, I saw men of all different ethnicities/religious backgrounds not only equally rise to the top, but just as equally get their behinds delivered to them in a sling. (I say "men" because I didn't really serve with females.) We were taught that in the Army there is only one color, and that's green. I recall one White kid referring to an NCO as a Black sergeant; another Black NCO immediately got on the kid's case, and yelled that there are no "Black sergeants," just green ones. In the service, if you mess up, you get "smoked;" it's that simple, and trying to make it a racial/religious issue usually gets you no sympathy.

You make a very interesting point. I dated an infantier in the Army for a few years, and my current boyfriend is a Naval Officer, so while I've never served, I know a lot about military life. It's true what you say about there being no colour. I've been told that while in uniform, theres even no gender: It's not a girl or a black guy sitting next to you, its just another soldier/sailor. I'm not sure how many racial or religious issues have been raised in the past here, but I don't imagine it would work - and it shouldn't. Civilians really could take lessons from the military.

He is just a bad person, it has nothing to do with color. I was told that years ago, he tried to sell his sister into prostitution......

As you do.

I caught that, but I was responding to the suggestion that the assault is really an issue of racial prejudice, which happens so often in situations like this. It's a real pet peeve of mine.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

You make a very interesting point. I dated an infantier in the Army for a few years, and my current boyfriend is a Naval Officer, so while I've never served, I know a lot about military life. It's true what you say about there being no colour. I've been told that while in uniform, theres even no gender: It's not a girl or a black guy sitting next to you, its just another soldier/sailor. I'm not sure how many racial or religious issues have been raised in the past here, but I don't imagine it would work - and it shouldn't. Civilians really could take lessons from the military.



As you do.

I caught that, but I was responding to the suggestion that the assault is really an issue of racial prejudice, which happens so often in situations like this. It's a real pet peeve of mine.

I am glad to hear someone you are involved with is a gentlemen and not a knuckle head and is currently serving in the Military.

There should never be an issue regarding race in the Military but it does surface every once in awhile. Normally it would be dealt with and things get on back to being fine.

As for the fellow that likes to punch co workers, violence should never be tolerated at the work place, ever. To keep someone employed that would do something that far off into "left field" is just plan dangerous. The best course of action would be for that person to be arrested and charged and to be told he will not be allowed to contact nor come back to the work place ever. Anyone that would do such a thing regarding hitting someone at the work place, is a "headline" waiting to happen,..."Worker goes postal, kills eight co-workers and injures 30 more, more details coming up at 6'O clock"......

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Because he is Hispanic, he is allowed to assault people? He is persecuted and misunderstood, so everyone should feel sorry for this violent individual, right?

In this day and age, and even before, people of all ethnicities have risen above their backgrounds and achieved things. Nobody told this guy to become an illegal migrant worker and punch an old man. That is wrong and he should be punished. I don't care if you're a poor Hispanic or a rich Swede, you can't hit people.

This is a classic example of pulling the minority card - You mustn't say anything, because that would be "intolerant." This kind of thinking is not an advancement from real racial prejudice, in fact it's just as backward. Once again, we haven't moved forward, we've moved sideways.

I have yet to have this situation surface within my business life, but as much as I would frown on anyone thinking something would be attached to a negative event to the topic of race, I would have to reply that I am an equal opportunity hater and can hate anyone equally ( stated with a ear to ear smile and in humor). I also think that the interview of anyone you would ever hire, makes a very big difference, and it is not just that you interview them, you examine as much as you can about them and their past, take time and find out who they are as much as you can, and have some rules in force that they have to discuss, and agree to and be told to follow without fail.

 

[1SG]

Speaking as a teacher, administration has changed for drastically in the last 10 year. If we send students out that are disrupting the learning of other we are seen as bad teachers. Let me tell you folks if you think tenure and seniority are protects teachers from being dismissed from their jobs you are very mistaken they let go about 2 tenured teachers a year in my school.

Have you heard of the "Tasers for teachers" program.

:eusa_clap

 

[scottyrocks]

Basically, teachers are scapegoats for inept parents. Politicians would be out of a job at their next election if they criticized the people who make children into who and what they are before they reach school.

 

[Gregg Axley]

:eusa_clap
It does make things hard on the teacher. Oh sure, in the 50's you had movies where some kid would sit in the corner and wear a dunce hat. Nowdays you can't do that because you are embarrasing him. Well that's the point! If they paid attention, and wouldn't disrupt class, they wouldn't be in the corner.
I graduated from HS over 20yrs ago, and back then if you had trouble with a subject, the teacher would take time with you and help you learn. But now I hear how many students don't want to learn, so the teacher just has to pass them as dictated by their administration. It's not a political issue, it's a funding issue. You graduate x amount of students, and you get x amount of money for your school. Nevermind the fact a large majority can't read the diploma.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My first grade teacher made us sit in the corner wearing a baby bonnet if we cut up rowdy in class. And if you really got out of line, you got your knuckles cracked hard with a metal-edged ruler. You didn't act up again after that.

Classroom discipline was going south as early as the fifties, if "Blackboard Jungle" is any reflection of reality. But even those delinquents were less disruptive than what teachers face today.

 

[sheeplady]

I think that in regards to the teachers and parents, there are just so many interconnected issues it is difficult to sort out. A few years ago I had the opportunity to take a few graduate level teacher education courses. Some of the ladies were excellent teachers, I'd be happy to have a child in their classroom, in fact, I'd try to get my child into their classroom.

There were also two women in the course who obviously didn't care about their students. They would sit there and talk about how horrible their kids were. I can't repeat what one of the women said about her kids, because it violates the language policies here. She's go on about how stupid they all were because they couldn't read when they came into her class (kindergarten). Her colleague, who taught 2nd grade, talked about strategies to get out of active teaching all the time, because her kids were stupid and couldn't learn anything, so why teach.

You can't tell me that if these women called their children that language among each other that it didn't show up in their teaching, at least as an attitude. It made me so sad, because many of these children don't have a good home life and school might be the only chance to turn their life around. You get told you're a ____ ______ who's going to grow up to be a _____ ____ enough, guess what tends to happen?

Kids rise to your expectations- good or bad. But it's really hard to have them rise to high expectations when everybody is fighting you- some of the parents, sometimes the administration, and even some of your colleagues. I've known a lot of teachers who get burnt out- particularly in high need school districts- mainly because people who are passing the buck and the teachers who care can't undo years upon years of this in 6 hours a day for 9.5 months. And since the good teachers are the ones that are likely to fight policies, their administration, and their fellow teachers for the sake of their kids, the bad administrations are more than happy when they get burnt out and leave.

I know that is a very dark picture, but it comes down to more than discipline. Our schools need a reboot- from the top of the educational pyramid down to what goes on in the classroom day in and day out.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

This is something that really irritates me. I have a good friend, God bless her, who is in school to get her teaching degree right now. She always has me read her papers over for her and she had to do one on why she wanted to become a teacher. Her Professor wanted to fail the paper, because her reasons for becoming a teacher in the paper were to fix everything you mentioned here. I think wanting to accomplish such reform shouldn't be condemned, but applauded. We need all the teachers who care we can get.

I have watched the decline first hand, through my school years. When I started school, there were still many teachers who had been in the profession since the 1950s still working. They cared about their students and would stay late, come in early, whatever it took to make sure their students understood the material. By my High-School days, students with issues would just be given the correct answer and a wink. That's not what education is about.

:eusa_clap
It does make things hard on the teacher. Oh sure, in the 50's you had movies where some kid would sit in the corner and wear a dunce hat. Nowdays you can't do that because you are embarrasing him. Well that's the point! If they paid attention, and wouldn't disrupt class, they wouldn't be in the corner.
I graduated from HS over 20yrs ago, and back then if you had trouble with a subject, the teacher would take time with you and help you learn. But now I hear how many students don't want to learn, so the teacher just has to pass them as dictated by their administration. It's not a political issue, it's a funding issue. You graduate x amount of students, and you get x amount of money for your school. Nevermind the fact a large majority can't read the diploma.

Also, I was watching MTV last night at my friend's house. Those who follow my activity on Facebook, already read about my disgust. This programming is just terrible. Mind rotting garbage about nothing. I can't decide whether it is a factor in our decline, a reflection of, or if they're both feeding off each other.

 

[Widebrim]

From what I have been informed, the U.S. Military has changed very much in how they act towards the "men" that serve. As a U.S. Navy vet, I am not really thrilled about some of those changes. I personally think the Military has become weaker in nature due to having to be "politically correct", and in having to be a bit more "mamby bamby" in how they deal with training. I am not really against females to serve, but I have to say I dislike the idea of a woman in combat or stationed on board a ship.

Although some of the changes may be for the better, I agree that to a certain extent the military has become weaker due to implementation of certain policies. (I did read in Army Times two years ago, though, that the Army was supposedly implementing changes in basic training which would better reflect conditions that recruits might encounter in a war zone.) I would say that part of this "weakness" results from societal changes (comparing the values and mindset of a young man who went through the Great Depression, with those of someone who is raised on MTV and the idea of entitlements as rights, for example), but to what extent is not easy to determine.

Regarding females...When I first went in (I served twice, with a break in between), a male couldn't go into a females-only barracks, but had to wait outside the front door until someone answered. A few years later, there were "co-ed" barracks (at least in S. Korea) where there was no supervision to speak of. Actually there was one barracks that was all-females, the unmarried ones that had gotten pregnant while overseas...And as regards women serving in combat, that's an idea that if one wishes to oppose, one'd better be ready to confront "arguments" based a lot on emotions, examples based on exceptions rather than the rule, and the ever-popular "that's their right" rhetoric, rather than reasoning which takes into account the well being of the unit as a whole.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Also, I was watching MTV last night at my friend's house. Those who follow my activity on Facebook, already read about my disgust. This programming is just terrible. Mind rotting garbage about nothing. I can't decide whether it is a factor in our decline, a reflection of, or if they're both feeding off each other.

I'd say it's a definite factor. Also a reflection of it too in a strange self parodying way maybe. I have seen television from the 60's until now.
The stuff from the 60's was relatively harmless, quaint even.
I stopped watching it for the most part in the 70's when it all became a lot of cop shows and sitcoms. All commercial drek.
I've caught glimpses of it here and there in the intervening years to the present, and I see it getting worse and worse for the most part.
Very little TV has any redeeming value anymore, MTV being one of the worst offenders.
And, if kids are just sat down in front of The Idiot Box after school because mom and dad are off working to keep up with the Jonses, they get programmed I think. (Maybe this is why it's called "programming"?) They see things on a daily basis that kids should just not really see I think. Violence, sex, etc., and with cable TV,....ferghetaboutdit.:eusa_doh: At no time in history were children ever exposed to such a media blitz of evil as they are today, and it just gets worse and worse. But it is so all pervasive now, I fear there is no cure.
I'd say without equivocation that this "programming" has contributed significantly to the decline of civilization.