The general decline in standards today

[Steven180]

Having lived the first two thirds of my life in the days of three-network-plus-NET/PBS over-the-air television and locally-owned-and-managed radio, I'll say without any reservation that it *was better then* in every conceivable way. I'd gladly go back to it.

Here, here.

That's the operative thing -- if anything, 25/26 was a bit old to be having a first child sixty or seventy years ago. Most people became parents for the first time in their early twenties. The question is, was a 22-year-old in 1939 or 1949 more mature/adult/responsible than a person of the same age today? A case can be made that, in the modern era, a 25 year old is still an adolescent in outlook.

It's funny, having studied some social science, it says this happens in cycles. Not to excuse anything of course, but this shift in maturity, how long parents support and sustain their children, and how long kids live at home has ebbed and flowed throughout time. It's a matter of circumstance a great deal, but you can certainly include mass media influence in that.

M.

 

[C-dot]

Media reported anomalies aside, I've read the average age of U.S women having a first child is approximately 25-26. This is well past the childhood stage.

Chronologically speaking, of course...

I suspect that this average is comprised of teenage mothers and the equally common phenomenon of people getting married and having children well after their 30's. That's when the biological clock starts tickin', I suppose.

Men want to be perennial bachelors, and women want to live their life as if it's Sex and the City.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The days of the double standard are over. We have a single standard now -- and that a low one.

 

[Feraud]

Yes, but there are segments of society in which the median age is much lower, as evidenced here in L.A. And even if a parent is "older," very often his/her mentality is still in the childhood stage.

There are also segments where women are older.
My comment about averages is to broaden the idea that children are having children. The stats don't show it, unless you buy media hype.

 

[C-dot]

And even if a parent is "older," very often his/her mentality is still in the childhood stage.

I agree. If it helps, Michael "The Situation" Sorrentino is 30 years old.

The 25 and 26 year olds I know act just as they probably did in high school. I fear for their children, if they should be born before these people mature.

 

[rue]

I agree. If it helps, Michael "The Situation" Sorrentino is 30 years old.

The 25 and 26 year olds I know act just as they probably did in high school. I fear for their children, if they should be born before these people mature.

People like that will rarely ever mature. I'm 41 and everyone that was like that when I was 20 are still like that now.

 

[sheeplady]

It's funny, having studied some social science, it says this happens in cycles. Not to excuse anything of course, but this shift in maturity, how long parents support and sustain their children, and how long kids live at home has ebbed and flowed throughout time. It's a matter of circumstance a great deal, but you can certainly include mass media influence in that.

M.

I've got to say, that I really feel sorry for the generation in the 25 and under age set.

20% of those 16-24 years old are unemployed in the US (compared to overall unemployment near 9%). That doesn't even count individuals who are under-employed (can only find part time employment or are working in a position where they are underpaid for their skill level).

40% of those US jobs that have been eliminated are those typically held by those age 18-25.

85% of young adults in the US are going to move back in with their parents following college or technical training. That doesn't even count the percentage that kept living with their parents beyond high school.


The world is much different now than it was for most of us at that age. It is not their fault that the economy imploded, but they are suffering the brunt of it. It's really hard to "grow up" when you can't find a job that can support you.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

Should, for example, the voting and drinking age be raised to 28?

IMHO no. I enlisted in the Army and went to basic traing when I was 17. I was old enough to follow the orders of the commander and chief, and if needed, go to combat but too "young" to vote or drink. I don't drink and I didn't drink then, but I do know that binge drinking is an issue now (I was director of public safety at a dry college campus and I was a paramedic so I do have some experiance with kids and binge drinking). One of the conferances I attended, a joint ATF and DEA seminar quoted a study that showed as the drinking age increased, so did hospitalizations for alcohol overdose. Additionally the 18-21 Y/O underage drinking encounters with law enforcement increased markedly.

Me thinks we did a lot of this to ourselves.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

People like that will rarely ever mature. I'm 41 and everyone that was like that when I was 20 are still like that now.

Nothing like the sight of a 40- or 50-something (or older) with a mullet and a Metallica T-shirt. :eusa_doh: :yuck:
...not that it looks any better on someone younger.

 

[rue]

That's scary!

 

[Edward]

We probably frighten them even more.

College-as-an-extension-of-high-school is a big part of it, agreed. So the question then becomes should society recognize that cultural shift and acknowledge that adolescence now extends thru the twenties?

Should, for example, the voting and drinking age be raised to 28?

I don't think so. I don't think, however much contempt they might hold it in, disenfranchising people is likely to improve the situation. Actually, there's an argument the other way around here in the UK, where the idea of lowering the voting age to sixteen has often been discussed. I'm not fully convinced of this either but I can't deny that many of the current problems with kids of 16 and 17 could arguably be partly influenced by the lack of any significant chance to have a voice via the ballot box, especially for those paying tax.

IMHO no. I enlisted in the Army and went to basic traing when I was 17. I was old enough to follow the orders of the commander and chief, and if needed, go to combat but too "young" to vote or drink. I don't drink and I didn't drink then, but I do know that binge drinking is an issue now (I was director of public safety at a dry college campus and I was a paramedic so I do have some experiance with kids and binge drinking). One of the conferances I attended, a joint ATF and DEA seminar quoted a study that showed as the drinking age increased, so did hospitalizations for alcohol overdose. Additionally the 18-21 Y/O underage drinking encounters with law enforcement increased markedly.

Me thinks we did a lot of this to ourselves.

It has often struck me as odd that a kid of sixteen could be seen as old enough to be sent to kill and/or die on the orders, ultimately, of politicians over which said kid has no voter power. On the matter of the drinking age, I'm interested to hear your comments, as they back up what I have long suspected also. Binge drinking certainly is a problem in the UK (has been for many decades, if not so open), but I have long noticed a correlation between binge drinking by American kids here in London and them falling into that 18-20 age bracket where they can't legally drink at home, yet they can over here. Personally I think the continental Europeans have a much healthier attitude to alcohol than either those of us in these islands or the US.

 

[C-dot]

20% of those 16-24 years old are unemployed in the US (compared to overall unemployment near 9%). That doesn't even count individuals who are under-employed (can only find part time employment or are working in a position where they are underpaid for their skill level).

I'm here to reinforce this statistic with my personal experience (Canada feels the USA's economic reverberations, and vice versa.) Recently, I graduated college with high honours, interned at a large criminal law firm with a perfect evaluation, and went through the motions to get my license to practise. I am more than qualified, but I cannot find a permanent position. They all tell me "you're great - but you don't have enough experience." Temp agencies are full, and poorly paying part-time jobs are in short supply. These days, I can't even get my part-time seasonal position back at Sephora.

It's not just me, either - about 3/4 of my graduating class doesn't have a job (the quarter that does are second career, or knew somebody.) Many of my friends in all different fields can't find jobs, so they're going back to school.

The way things look now, I'm going to have to move back in with my parents, which is a serious blow to my ego. I can't, of course, blame the economy for everything, but I'm trying all the time and the shortage of jobs doesn't help.

 

[ButteMT61]

Doesn't help that we've outsourced so much. That is a pathetic, self-inflicted wound I'm afraid. I think within 5 years, we're going to see riots in the USA. Unlike what we've ever seen before...

 

[Edward]

I like this little fella.

 

[jamespowers]

Nothing like the sight of a 40- or 50-something (or older) with a mullet and a Metallica T-shirt. :eusa_doh: :yuck:
...not that it looks any better on someone younger.

Hippie Alert! Hippie Alert! :laser::hippie:

 

[jamespowers]

College-as-an-extension-of-high-school is a big part of it, agreed. So the question then becomes should society recognize that cultural shift and acknowledge that adolescence now extends thru the twenties?

Should, for example, the voting and drinking age be raised to 28?

28?! More like 38 for voting.
Drinking can stay at 18. It has a social darwinistic effect.

 

[jamespowers]

IMHO no. I enlisted in the Army and went to basic traing when I was 17. I was old enough to follow the orders of the commander and chief, and if needed, go to combat but too "young" to vote or drink. I don't drink and I didn't drink then, but I do know that binge drinking is an issue now (I was director of public safety at a dry college campus and I was a paramedic so I do have some experiance with kids and binge drinking). One of the conferances I attended, a joint ATF and DEA seminar quoted a study that showed as the drinking age increased, so did hospitalizations for alcohol overdose. Additionally the 18-21 Y/O underage drinking encounters with law enforcement increased markedly.

Me thinks we did a lot of this to ourselves.

You mean they did it to themselves. None of us out here were pouring cheap booze down their throats and telling them to take a drive or just keep drinking. The real problem is people making excuses for those that make poor choices.
I want to see the organization that is telling children to abstain from many things that they are getting into and that the path to success is paved one stepping stone at a time and in a direct line to skipping around. That would be a worthy effort.

 

[jamespowers]

Doesn't help that we've outsourced so much. That is a pathetic, self-inflicted wound I'm afraid. I think within 5 years, we're going to see riots in the USA. Unlike what we've ever seen before...

Which will be quelled by either government forces or private forces and ----as in most cases----the people who need help will only make it worse for themselves.

 

[PoohBang]

here's another old idiot with crazy hair and a sweatshirt...

 

[rue]

Curious.... why are you on the lounge?