The general decline in standards today

[AmateisGal]

We were discussing adults choosing to engage in premarital sex and other behaviors that others may deem unseemly and then telling them you think it's immoral, etc. That can't compare to someone breaking the law (throwing rocks at a moving train. You should call 911 to report it) and advising your daughter about what is right or wrong and stepping in to prevent harassment. Minding my own business when it comes to again, adults engaging in behaviors with which I don't agree doesn't mean I condone it or an somehow encouraging it.

Ok. So what if it had been a group of adults doing this - calling names, etc.? Because they are adults, we can't say anything? That's what I'm struggling with because I think we *can* say something and indeed, *should* say something. Because we are so scared in this society to question what anyone does for fear of *offending* them or being *judgmental* that we are allowing basic human decency to fall by the wayside.

I dunno. I can see your point, too, and I'm trying to reconcile this all in my mind.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Ok. So what if it had been a group of adults doing this - calling names, etc.? Because they are adults, we can't say anything? That's what I'm struggling with because I think we *can* say something and indeed, *should* say something. Because we are so scared in this society to question what anyone does for fear of *offending* them or being *judgmental* that we are allowing basic human decency to fall by the wayside.

I dunno. I can see your point, too, and I'm trying to reconcile this all in my mind.

Thank you, and I can see yours and actually agree with you to an extent that it's important to speak out when you see an injustice. I have to admit that I can be a busybody when it comes to the underdogs of the world. I don't like to see people getting pushed around and so I've opened my mouth on occasion if it's happening in front of me*. But again, when it comes to whether or not someone has "loose morals" then it's not my place. It's a complex issue and hashing it out through conversation is good!

*If it's name-calling. Illegal stuff, again, I defer to the police.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Well, I think the notion that casual sex didn't exist in yesteryear, is patently flawed. People then simply took greater care to disguise their actions and observers went to some trouble to turn a blind eye.

I didn't say it didn't exist. I said it carried consequences. And personally, I think it still does, and people try their damndest to convince themselves it doesn't because they don't want others to think they're "uptight" or something.

I think it's important to distinguish between "casual sex" and "premarital sex," too. The social stigma against promiscuitiy in the Era was very, very, very strong. A lot of people fooled around with each other before getting married -- according to Kinsey's 1953 study, a little less than half of all women he surveyed had had premarital intercourse, but in the majority of cases they had only had it with one partner. The idea of bouncing from random bed to bed was not something the average person, and especially the average woman, would have even considered. Aside from the social consequences and the fear of pregnancy, people in the Era were terrified by the prospect of venereal disease, which could lead to devastating physical consequences.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

As if things weren't grim enough: the general decline in restaurant name standards today. http://www.oddee.com/item_96733.aspx

 

[LizzieMaine]

Because we are so scared in this society to question what anyone does for fear of *offending* them or being *judgmental* that we are allowing basic human decency to fall by the wayside.

I think this "fear of being judgemental" is innately hypocritical -- because *everyone* is judgemental, whether we want to admit it or not. Those who condemn others for being judgemental are themselves *being* judgemental, aren't they? It's a high horse of a different color, but it's a high horse just the same.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I judge that Lung Men is a silly-looking Chinese name for a Chinese takeout restaurant in Santiago, Chile. Sue me, world.

 

[rue]

As if things weren't grim enough: the general decline in restaurant name standards today. http://www.oddee.com/item_96733.aspx

:eeek: lol

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I think this "fear of being judgemental" is innately hypocritical -- because *everyone* is judgemental, whether we want to admit it or not. Those who condemn others for being judgemental are themselves *being* judgemental, aren't they? It's a high horse of a different color, but it's a high horse just the same.

Exactly!...and I'm glad to see this finally mentioned. Somehow..the act of judging has taken on meaning that nothing or no one should be judged(unless it's done on an ever popular reality show..then the reactions are applauded). Probaby because no one in society wants to ever be judged themselves...or behavior criticized...simply because of that age old fear of guilt. Tolerance has been broadened to include permissiveness which then leads to acceptance. This is the journey that effects...and certainly influences society as a whole then rarely stops at our door step. It is never good enough to be tolerated...or gain permission...but certain behavior eventually strives to be normalized as the final goal. The wagging finger just transfers to the opposite side which can hardly contain themselves to remain polite. "Who are YOU to judge me"? Where do YOU get any authority?...and just where does it come from? If you do mention any source...or the source..'Then hang on"..cause there is really going to be hell to pay! That furious finger will start wagging from the shoulder on down with a redfaced 'How dare you'..! The offender becomes the offended...and here comes the new judge with his own authority.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

The beautiful thing about having an open mind is that it can still filter and assess what it lets in. Making judgements is good.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Making judgements is good.

And watching them is even better ... which explains the popularity of "The People's Court", "Judge Judy", etc.

 

[LizzieMaine]

A Modern Colloquy

"Hey, listen to what just did! What do you think of that!"

"Well, if it was me, I wouldn't have done it."

"Huh! Well you aren't me, and I did it! So there!"

"That's your business. You asked, and I told you what I thought."

"You think you're better than me, is that it?"

"No, I just said if it were me, I would have done differently."

"Hmph! People like you are all the same. Judge judge judge!"

"But all I said was..."

"Things have changed, you know. People like you are going to have to get with the times."

"But..."

"Hey, do you wanna know what ELSE I did?"

"No, actually, I'd rather not."

"HMPH! There you go again! I know when I've been insulted!"

And so on, into the night.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Fair dinkum. Now, what if someone doesn't ask you what you think of his/her actions? Should a soliloquy follow?

 

[Tomasso]

Ask any male stripper* who performs at private bachelorette and birthday parties about how uninhibited many of the women get these days. We were speculating whether a certain president's attempt to have a Monica removed from the list of sex acts had any impact on this behaviour.







*Of course you can find video of it easily enough on the web if you don't know any strippers.

 

[rue]

Ask any male stripper* who performs at private bachelorette and birthday parties about how uninhibited many of the women get these days. We were speculating whether a certain president's attempt to have a Monica removed from the list of sex acts had any impact on this behaviour.







*Of course you can find video of it easily enough on the web if you don't know any strippers.

There's so many comments I could leave here Tomasso that I don't even know where to begin lol

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Ah, the Decadent West. Gotta love to hate it.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

It's entirely possible to be judgmental without being dictatorial or passive-aggressively controlling. Look at my screen name. I'm as square as it gets. I don't drink or smoke and I'm asleep by 9:00 p.m. But I don't expect or hope for others to do the same.

What's ironic is that when I do go out with people who drink, it's not me who is making comments. I'm out to have a good time and don't need liquid encouragement. But who is making comments and passing judgement out loud? The drinkers. They can't understand the concept of not drinking.

 

[rue]

A Modern Colloquy

"Hey, listen to what just did! What do you think of that!"

"Well, if it was me, I wouldn't have done it."

"Huh! Well you aren't me, and I did it! So there!"

"That's your business. You asked, and I told you what I thought."

"You think you're better than me, is that it?"

"No, I just said if it were me, I would have done differently."

"Hmph! People like you are all the same. Judge judge judge!"

"But all I said was..."

"Things have changed, you know. People like you are going to have to get with the times."

"But..."

"Hey, do you wanna know what ELSE I did?"

"No, actually, I'd rather not."

"HMPH! There you go again! I know when I've been insulted!"

And so on, into the night.

It sounds like a conversation between children/teenagers, but I know it's not shakeshead

 

[HoosierDaddy]

The revealing thing about allowing an open spiritual mind is realizing that even with our intellect we may not actually be positioned as the ultimate authority. JMHO.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

But who is making comments and passing judgement out loud? The drinkers. They can't understand the concept of not drinking.

And they're horses' rumps to do so. Judging others out loud and without invitation, as these people do, is an easy way to lessen (or flat out avoid) the burden of judging oneself.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Fair dinkum. Now, what if someone doesn't ask you what you think of his/her actions? Should a soliloquy follow?

It's like I said before. What people do is their own business as long as they stay off my lawn. If they ask me what I think I'll tell them, but I won't go out of my way to meddle in their business as long as they keep out of mine. Those are the Golden Era values I was raised with, and I'm sticking to it.