The general decline in standards today

[C-dot]

Even more maddening was that instead of enforcing their own store policy...

I had a strange experience with this, and I still don't know what to think. Maybe I can get some thoughts.

I went to my local Tim Hortons one night with my aunt. This one had an ice cream service. There was one person in the coffee line, and no one but my aunt and I in the ice cream line. One of the counter staff walked over to me and asked what I wanted. I said I hadn't decided, and I would like a minute. He drew a sharp breath and walked away... Then he turned back, looked me in the eyes, and gave me the finger.

Once I processed what had happened, I told my aunt, who called over the counter for some service. The same guy came back and said to me "Have you [expletive] decided what the hell you want now?"

We hunted down the manager. She came over to talk to us, and the server who was rude to me stood with her, red in the face. We asked if he would leave us, but he wouldn't. My aunt was outraged, and asked if there was something wrong with him. The manager replied "Yes, there is. He is mentally challenged." I said that there was still no reason for him to speak to me like that, especially since I hadn't done anything. The manager, in effect, said that it was their policy to hire special needs people for serving staff and if I didn't like it, I would have to go somewhere else. I left, and haven't been back since.

I get the equal opportunity policy - In fact, I think it's great. But this really tried my capacity for understanding.

 

[ButteMT61]

We have a business (more than one) that do this as well. It usually is easy to tell who falls into this group, and you adjust accordingly. I think you should see the greater good and let it go. Not sure how a business could make this known without hurting said employees, but I like seeing those follks working.
One of or favorite coffee shops has a mentally retarded woman who works there. Sweet as pie, but she wants to talk every second you're there. I know this so if I'm not in the mood for it, I go elsewhere rather than be rude to her.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I get the equal opportunity policy - In fact, I think it's great. But this really tried my capacity for understanding.

It does no one any good to hire someone to do a job they aren't capable of doing -- which, if your incident is typical of this guy's performance, he isn't. It may well be that the store gets some kind of subsidy for hiring special-needs staff, which is fine, but putting someone who can't be relied on to interact courteously with the public out in the front where he's constantly interacting with the public isn't helping him or the store. It's condescending to him at best, and it's downright cruel to him at worst. Clearly the situation is as stressful to him as it is to the customers.

(And before someone tells me how insensitive I am, I have a nephew who could very easily be that server. And I'd *never* put him a position like that, no matter what the circumstances.)

 

[Steven180]

Although we likely understand,and support, the employment of those challenged...hiring them in a direct customer service role is clearly a mistake, as noted. There are many other duties that can be performed to earn a living and support dignity but I'm sure that the great majority of professionals would not jeopardize their business as this manager has.

I suggest a formal letter of complaint to the regional manager or CEO establishing the facts as they occurred and your personal issue with the incident. I think you were well in your right to be offended, and deserve to have your experience noted. I have been in the position before where I wish I had known something about an employee so I could have made better decisions or taken more appropriate action earlier if the information had been provided to me. These are the type of things that affect company policies.

I hope, at the very least, the manager offered you a sincere apology.
M.

 

[rue]

I had a strange experience with this, and I still don't know what to think. Maybe I can get some thoughts.

I went to my local Tim Hortons one night with my aunt. This one had an ice cream service. There was one person in the coffee line, and no one but my aunt and I in the ice cream line. One of the counter staff walked over to me and asked what I wanted. I said I hadn't decided, and I would like a minute. He drew a sharp breath and walked away... Then he turned back, looked me in the eyes, and gave me the finger.

Once I processed what had happened, I told my aunt, who called over the counter for some service. The same guy came back and said to me "Have you [expletive] decided what the hell you want now?"

We hunted down the manager. She came over to talk to us, and the server who was rude to me stood with her, red in the face. We asked if he would leave us, but he wouldn't. My aunt was outraged, and asked if there was something wrong with him. The manager replied "Yes, there is. He is mentally challenged." I said that there was still no reason for him to speak to me like that, especially since I hadn't done anything. The manager, in effect, said that it was their policy to hire special needs people for serving staff and if I didn't like it, I would have to go somewhere else. I left, and haven't been back since.

I get the equal opportunity policy - In fact, I think it's great. But this really tried my capacity for understanding.

You know what bothers me is the fact that there are some individuals that might have hurt him, after he flipped them off or cursed at them, without knowing he was mentally challenged, so the company is actually putting his life in danger.

 

[_Nightwing]

That's totally unfair. Whenever I give customers the finger I get fired. It's supposed to be equal opportunity, not special treatment.

 

[AmateisGal]

that's totally unfair. Whenever i give customers the finger i get fired. It's supposed to be equal opportunity, not special treatment.

lol

 

[scottyrocks]

. . . One of the counter staff walked over to me and asked what I wanted. I said I hadn't decided, and I would like a minute. He drew a sharp breath and walked away... Then he turned back, looked me in the eyes, and gave me the finger.

Once I processed what had happened, I told my aunt, who called over the counter for some service. The same guy came back and said to me "Have you [expletive] decided what the hell you want now?"

We hunted down the manager. She came over to talk to us, and the server who was rude to me stood with her, red in the face. We asked if he would leave us, but he wouldn't. My aunt was outraged, and asked if there was something wrong with him. The manager replied "Yes, there is. He is mentally challenged." I said that there was still no reason for him to speak to me like that, especially since I hadn't done anything. The manager, in effect, said that it was their policy to hire special needs people for serving staff and if I didn't like it, I would have to go somewhere else. I left, and haven't been back since. . .

Political correctness run amok.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I was. I don't go around Bible thumping and throwing my beliefs at people. I have many loved ones who come to me to discuss things, or ask for advice. If they do, I give them my opinion.

I think Tom was referring to his friends and family. I don't believe he meant Joe Blow walking down the street.

Very true! Morality has become a very gray area and a bit of a wild west.

But this is my point. In our society, we're no longer on the same page as to what is ethical.

I think this is important to. Now, if you're having a serious relationship, that's one thing. I guess I was thinking of a good friend of mine. He turned 21 recently and hits the bars every night. He brags to me about how he's 'scoring' with four different women a week. This is what I find to be a lack of morals and ethics.

I think it's important to distinguish between "casual sex" and "premarital sex," too. The social stigma against promiscuitiy in the Era was very, very, very strong. A lot of people fooled around with each other before getting married -- according to Kinsey's 1953 study, a little less than half of all women he surveyed had had premarital intercourse, but in the majority of cases they had only had it with one partner. The idea of bouncing from random bed to bed was not something the average person, and especially the average woman, would have even considered. Aside from the social consequences and the fear of pregnancy, people in the Era were terrified by the prospect of venereal disease, which could lead to devastating physical consequences.

 

[Philip A.]

"Equal opportunity" is sadly grossly misunderstood.

It's supposed to give everyone the opportunity to acquire certain skills if he/she has the capability to do so and to be employed according to his/her skills if he/she has such skills, irrespectively of gender, race, or creed.

It is instead taken as "any idiot deserves a PhD" and "any moron or uncouth should be employed as a professional".

To try and accommodate this, the standards had to be lowered, and they have been - very close to ground level, I'm afraid.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

This is very accurate. I've seen good and bad of Equal Opportunity. My mother is a Mechanic where I work, and was at the Wisconsin Cheeseman before that. She went through terrible discrimination. People said she's a woman so she can't turn a wrench, and this and that. I've watched my mother work, and she's helped me with many projects from automotive work to home remodeling. She's a very talented and handy woman and any maintenance staff would be lucky to have her. I hate to think that people dismiss her just because of her gender.

On the flip side of the coin, they just hired a woman in my department. I very much like her and think she's a sweet lady. She just can't handle the job. She's in her 50's and we've lost other employees up there, because of the fact that they're getting up in years and can't handle the job anymore. She's also fairly frail. She has a lot of trouble lifting things, moving things, etc, etc. She's always calling me over from my line to come help her and I absolutely don't mind, but I know that nobody would put up with me asking for that much help.

Frankly, if you can do the job, I don't care what race, age, religion, orientation, whatever, you are, so long as you can keep up. If you can't, I don't care what you are, don't do the job.

"Equal opportunity" is sadly grossly misunderstood.

It's supposed to give everyone the opportunity to acquire certain skills if he/she has the capability to do so and to be employed according to his/her skills if he/she has such skills, irrespectively of gender, race, or creed.

It is instead taken as "any idiot deserves a PhD" and "any moron or uncouth should be employed as a professional".

To try and accommodate this, the standards had to be lowered, and they have been - very close to ground level, I'm afraid.

 

[Dennis Young]

Wow, this thread took off indeed! It warms my heart to read your comments and I'm really beginning to like this group a lot.

I do want to make one small mention about my previous post. My focus was about the tv and film entertainment industry and what is being beamed into our living rooms. What people do in their personal lives is their own business as far as I'm concerned. But the tv is very powerful medium. We become desensitized when we see things night after night on tv. Doesnt have to be about just sex. It could be political commentary, or lack or patriotism or respect for our elders or just about anything else.

So when we as adults try to say something to youth who are doing something they probably ought not to do, as was mentioned by one of the lovely ladies here and the kids talk back are say rude things, its really no surprise to me. That sort of behavior is on tv all the time.

Ever notice how, in the old movies, when someone got killed or shot, there was very little (if any) blood seen? A lot of times the violent act was ...just off screen, or in silhouette...maybe behind a window shade. We can thank the old Hayes Commission....The Motion Picture Code for that.

The Motion Picture Production Code was the set of industry moral censorship guidelines that governed the production of the vast majority of films released by major studios from 1930 to 1968. Today it is ridiculed as being oppressive and as censorship. I would counter that it forced directors to be more creative when dealing with sensitive subjects, rather than rely on graphic violence we see today.

I would love to see a return of the Motion Picture Code.
I would love to see kids encouraged to join groups like the Scouts more. The Scouts, and groups like them were very active back when I was a kid and taught us respect for one another and for our elders.

We used to teach loyalty to our country.
We said the pledge of allegiance daily in school. We were taught to be patriotic. Imo, today most of Hollywood could care less. Even notice how many fine actors joined the military during WW2? And many more volunteered to work the USO and the Hollywood Canteen to support those troops going off to war. And how many fine war films were made during the WW2 era?

How has Hollywood supported our troops in this war? Sure, some do USO tours, but others ignore it. So it doesnt surprise me at all when people show so little respect for our peers, our elders, or my country.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Once I was standing in the Express Line at (the now-defunct) Drug Emporium and I noticed that the woman in front of me had exceeded the ten item limit by almost twice the amount. I'll never forget this, she turned to me, laughed and jokingly said that I was in the wrong line. Even more maddening was that instead of enforcing their own store policy, the clerk simply rang up her purchases instead of making her move to another line. I can see why the whole chain went belly up!

Those people are worse than purse snatchers! No really, they vex me and so do the clerks who ring them up anyway!

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Wow, this thread took off indeed! It warms my heart to read your comments and I'm really beginning to like this group a lot.

I do want to make one small mention about my previous post. My focus was about the tv and film entertainment industry and what is being beamed into our living rooms. What people do in their personal lives is their own business as far as I'm concerned. But the tv is very powerful medium. We become desensitized when we see things night after night on tv. Doesnt have to be about just sex. It could be political commentary, or lack or patriotism or respect for our elders or just about anything else.

So when we as adults try to say something to youth who are doing something they probably ought not to do, as was mentioned by one of the lovely ladies here and the kids talk back are say rude things, its really no surprise to me. That sort of behavior is on tv all the time.

Ever notice how, in the old movies, when someone got killed or shot, there was very little (if any) blood seen? A lot of times the violent act was ...just off screen, or in silhouette...maybe behind a window shade. We can thank the old Hayes Commission....The Motion Picture Code for that.

The Motion Picture Production Code was the set of industry moral censorship guidelines that governed the production of the vast majority of films released by major studios from 1930 to 1968. Today it is ridiculed as being oppressive and as censorship. I would counter that it forced directors to be more creative when dealing with sensitive subjects, rather than rely on graphic violence we see today.

I would love to see a return of the Motion Picture Code.
I would love to see kids encouraged to join groups like the Scouts more. The Scouts, and groups like them were very active back when I was a kid and taught us respect for one another and for our elders.

We used to teach loyalty to our country.
We said the pledge of allegiance daily in school. We were taught to be patriotic. Imo, today most of Hollywood could care less. Even notice how many fine actors joined the military during WW2? And many more volunteered to work the USO and the Hollywood Canteen to support those troops going off to war. And how many fine war films were made during the WW2 era?

How has Hollywood supported our troops in this war? Sure, some do USO tours, but others ignore it. So it doesnt surprise me at all when people show so little respect for our peers, our elders, or my country.

I agree! Hearing the "terlit" flush on All in the Family was considered radical. On Leave it to Beaver they weren't allowed to show the toilet in a bathroom scene. Leaving murderous scenes to the imagination was far more effective than the current Hollywood studio's gore and goo. Hitchcock knew that. Seems like if you removed all of the gratuitous nonsense from today's programming there wouldn't be much content left!

 

[Dennis Young]

I agree! Hearing the "terlit" flush on All in the Family was considered radical. On Leave it to Beaver they weren't allowed to show the toilet in a bathroom scene. Leaving murderous scenes to the imagination was far more effective than the current Hollywood studio's gore and goo. Hitchcock knew that. Seems like if you removed all of the gratuitous nonsense from today's programming there wouldn't be much content left!

Good point. I saw a tv program the other night about the Brady Bunch. It was all family and values and taught lessons etc. But it was practically killed when All in the /Family came along. (One of my favortie tv shows btw). So we went from one form of Family Values, to sort of a darker version of Family Values.

Then the Simpsons and then Married w/ Children and now we have Family Guy. A step by step progression by the entertainment industry.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Good point. I saw a tv program the other night about the Brady Bunch. It was all family and values and taught lessons etc. But it was practically killed when All in the /Family came along. (One of my favortie tv shows btw). So we went from one form of Family Values, to sort of a darker version of Family Values.

Then the Simpsons and then Married w/ Children and now we have Family Guy. A step by step progression by the entertainment industry.

I love the Brady Bunch! Please see my comments as well as LizzieMaine's about "All in the Family" earlier in this thread. It's a brilliant show and different from the shows that began the decline in quality content.

 

[Nathan Dodge]

I do want to make one small mention about my previous post. My focus was about the tv and film entertainment industry and what is being beamed into our living rooms. What people do in their personal lives is their own business as far as I'm concerned. But the tv is very powerful medium. We become desensitized when we see things night after night on tv. Doesnt have to be about just sex. It could be political commentary, or lack or patriotism or respect for our elders or just about anything else.

Don't forget to include Madison Avenue advertisers with those Hollywood types. Fiscally conservative yet selling sex 24/7, all in the name of the Almighty--and declining--Dollar.

Ever notice how, in the old movies, when someone got killed or shot, there was very little (if any) blood seen? A lot of times the violent act was ...just off screen, or in silhouette...maybe behind a window shade. We can thank the old Hayes Commission....The Motion Picture Code for that.

Too bad the content in so many violent...I mean "action" movies--glorify gore and sadism instead of showing the horrific consequences of violence and condemning it. We're much more tolerant of blood and guts entertainment than we are of sexuality or just plain nudity. It's definitely a USA thing.

The Motion Picture Production Code was the set of industry moral censorship guidelines that governed the production of the vast majority of films released by major studios from 1930 to 1968. Today it is ridiculed as being oppressive and as censorship. I would counter that it forced directors to be more creative when dealing with sensitive subjects, rather than rely on graphic violence we see today.

I agree that "less is more", but the idea of censorship doesn't appeal to me, either. Too bad today's filmmakers aren't sophisticated enough to imply those elements of their storytelling rather than showing everything to the exclusion of imagination. But keep in mind this is the era of Shia Lebeouf and Transformers movies making billions at the box office when an entire generation threw money at that franchise as if it had a gun pointed at its collective head.

I would love to see kids encouraged to join groups like the Scouts more. The Scouts, and groups like them were very active back when I was a kid and taught us respect for one another and for our elders.

They're already in soccer camp, sensitivity camp, daycare, pre-school, post-school, and pre-work...how many more mind-numbing organizations do kids really need these days? And they're not any smarter for it! I'm still waiting for the spawn of all those early '90s mothers who played "Mozart for Baby" to their unborn genius to lead us to greater fortune with their Mozart-enhanced brains...

We used to teach loyalty to our country.

We said the pledge of allegiance daily in school. We were taught to be patriotic. Imo, today most of Hollywood could care [sic] less. Even notice how many fine actors joined the military during WW2? And many more volunteered to work the USO and the Hollywood Canteen to support those troops going off to war. And how many fine war films were made during the WW2 era?

Let the parents teach patriotism to their kids; keep the ever-expanding and meddlesome government out of our lives.

Many of those "fine war films" were mere propaganda, nothing more. Big hero John Wayne didn't feel the need to serve his country, why should anyone else?

How has Hollywood supported our troops in this war? Sure, some do USO tours, but others ignore it. So it doesnt surprise me at all when people show so little respect for our peers, our elders, or my country.

The media certainly did their part, as they sold the public the war in Iraq with the aid of that Boy Emperor Bush--the "free press" didn't do so much as ask a single tough question.

 

[Dennis Young]

I love the Brady Bunch! Please see my comments as well as LizzieMaine's about "All in the Family" earlier in this thread. It's a brilliant show and different from the shows that began the decline in quality content.

Yep. I'm a big fan of All in the Family. That series, though, did kill some of the earlier shows we loved. Well, that and Sanford and Son. They were edgier and people ate it up. But I still get to see both on TV Land. (Wish they'd bring back the Brady Bunch though. I even lioved the tv movie parodies they made later).

 

[Dennis Young]

I agree that "less is more", but the idea of censorship doesn't appeal to me, either. Too bad today's filmmakers aren't sophisticated enough to imply those elements of their storytelling rather than showing everything to the exclusion of imagination. But keep in mind this is the era of Shia Lebeouf and Transformers movies making billions at the box office when an entire generation threw money at that franchise as if it had a gun pointed at its collective head.

Yeah, after I made my post I started thinking a little more about it. I mean, my favorite film of all time (The Godfather) would likely have never made it to the big screen under the Hayes Code.

Perhaps if the film ratings were more strict than they are today. Thus allowing films to be made. But films like the recent remake of Lolita (1997 with Jeremy Irons) probably could have been rated single 'X' instead of 'R'. At least by the standards of the 40s.

Let the parents teach patriotism to their kids; keep the ever-expanding and meddlesome government out of our lives.

Eh...most dont though. And I never mentioned anything about govt intruding.

Many of those "fine war films" were mere propaganda, nothing more. Big hero John Wayne didn't feel the need to serve his country, why should anyone else?

John Wayne was 4-F. Destroyed his knee playing football in college. Thats why he walked the way he did. Lol!

 

[Nathan Dodge]

John Wayne was 4-F. Destroyed his knee playing football in college. Thats why he walked the way he did. Lol!

If Joe Kenendy could get JFK a command in the PT Boats with the latter's severe health problems, then The Duke could've at least gotten a commision flying a desk or something.

BTW, love John Wayne...the performer.