The general decline in standards today

[jamespowers]

It's pretty difficult to argue with that. I remember reading an article written by a former Japanese student in the US. During her 18 month stay, she put on 35 pounds, and as soon as she moved back to Japan, it melted off. She mentioned a few times that she couldn't believe the size of the portions, and just how many fast food chains there were (one on every corner.)

I faithfully subscribe to the philosophy that French women don't get fat.

It wasn't the labeling---it was the willpower.
You must be in French Canada then.

 

[C-dot]

It wasn't the labeling---it was the willpower.
You must be in French Canada then.

Good point lol And ironically enough, I'm in one of the fattest parts of this fair country - The French influence is far east of me!

 

[LizzieMaine]

One major difference is that during the Great Depression, foods like Doritos, Hamburger Helper and Twinkies weren't available on most store shelves, and home gardens and preserving were considerably more prevalent.

Precisely. The snack-food explosion didn't happen until the sixties and seventies -- prior to that there was no such thing as an entire aisle in the grocery store stocked with chips and such. You might have potato chips at a picnic and popcorn at the movies, and you might pack a Hostess cupcake in your lunchbox, but the culture of sitting down at night with a gigantic bag of "munchies" at your side didn't yet exist. I think that culture, the culture of never being more than arms-length away from something to shove in your face, the culture of constant eating rather than limiting food to mealtime, is the single biggest contributor to the bloating of America. Doesn't anyone ever say to their kids anymore "Put that crap down, you're gonna spoil your supper?"

 

[PoohBang]

You just made my point. You know exactly what is in it. :rofl:

What was your point? Besides rolling smiley faces all the time?

I think it's pretty easy to argue that point of labeling in other countries. So your both saying that if DIDN'T have labeling on cans and bags of food, All american's would be fit?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Hmmmmmmm...

These other countries are beginning to have a major obesity problem that neatly coincides with the expansion of fast food restaurants and the growing availability (and decreasing price) of junk food in markets.

Chile is a good example. Before the end of the Pinochet dictatorship (an era when the U.S. had a pretty small market presence), there were no McDonald's in the country and imported junk food (the only kind available) was relatively expensive. Around 1990, General Pinochet was out, U.S.-based consumer products returned in force, McDonald's/Burger King/KFC branches popped up like mushrooms, and prices for Doritos, Twinkies, etc. (which were now being made locally under license) fell. One result: every generation of Chileans born after 1980 has shown an increasing rate of obesity.

 

[C-dot]

I think that culture, the culture of never being more than arms-length away from something to shove in your face, the culture of constant eating rather than limiting food to mealtime, is the single biggest contributor to the bloating of America.

That, and the incredible convenience of fast and junk foods. Why spend 45 minutes of your precious time preparing supper when you can just microwave it or go to the drive-thru?

If I get peckish, I spend the extra minute to make cheese and crackers.

These other countries are beginning to have a major obesity problem that neatly coincides with the expansion of fast food restaurants and the growing availability (and decreasing price) of junk food in markets.

This expansion of fast food markets is where the whole problem comes from. Multi-national corporations like McDonald's expand their businesses, and therefore their influence. What was an American problem is now becoming a worldwide problem.

 

[jamespowers]

Precisely. The snack-food explosion didn't happen until the sixties and seventies -- prior to that there was no such thing as an entire aisle in the grocery store stocked with chips and such. You might have potato chips at a picnic and popcorn at the movies, and you might pack a Hostess cupcake in your lunchbox, but the culture of sitting down at night with a gigantic bag of "munchies" at your side didn't yet exist. I think that culture, the culture of never being more than arms-length away from something to shove in your face, the culture of constant eating rather than limiting food to mealtime, is the single biggest contributor to the bloating of America. Doesn't anyone ever say to their kids anymore "Put that crap down, you're gonna spoil your supper?"

I think the culture does indeed have a lot to do with it but we are kind of an anachronism here. The culture doesn't affect me. I still raise my children MY way. I do indeed tell them not to eat food between meals and especially before dinner. So does my wife.
I am sure it is much easier to cave in to them and there lies the rub with our culture---a lot less backbone in many areas.

 

[ButteMT61]

The only concession I'd personally like to see to my "no subsidies" philosophy is to make good, healthy foods affordable. It IS nigh impossible to feed a family on a few dollars a day - keeping out the whole bit where we don't discuss poor people with no/limited means having kids or men leaving women with their kids...- since switching our diets earlier this year, we discovered how expensive this is - save having your own garden, which we do as well.
If we did this, we lower health problems, healthcare costs and put people to work. Farmers are happy, we're happy, and society benefits overall. However - I believe many people used to a junk food diet would not take advantage of this - and that's the sad part. Good food often isn't as tasty (for the sake of this argument - I know there are good things that taste good) to kids and folks used to Mickey D's, KFC, etc.
And it's not just poor/uneducated folks that don't know what they're eating...

 

[jamespowers]

What was your point? Besides rolling smiley faces all the time?

I think it's pretty easy to argue that point of labeling in other countries. So your both saying that if DIDN'T have labeling on cans and bags of food, All american's would be fit?

Uh no dude. What I am saying is that in other countries they excercise will power and see food for what it is. You can't fool them---unless they want to be fooled. Everyone here knows that you can't eat at McDonalds every day for months on end and expect to be fit. They even made a movie about it. Making excuses for poor choices is just silly. They own their weight. They earned it.

 

[C-dot]

The only concession I'd personally like to see to my "no subsidies" philosophy is to make good, healthy foods affordable. It IS nigh impossible to feed a family on a few dollars a day...

It's impossible to do anything on a few dollars a day in this day and age. I still say it isn't all that more expensive to feed yourself properly (in fact, I find it much more expensive to eat junk) provided you have a general meal plan and shop smartly. But of course, I'm only feeding myself.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Doesn't anyone ever say to their kids anymore "Put that crap down, you're gonna spoil your supper?"

But Mom, I thought it was supper! :doh:

 

[jamespowers]

These other countries are beginning to have a major obesity problem that neatly coincides with the expansion of fast food restaurants and the growing availability (and decreasing price) of junk food in markets.

Chile is a good example. Before the end of the Pinochet dictatorship (an era when the U.S. had a pretty small market presence), there were no McDonald's in the country and imported junk food (the only kind available) was relatively expensive. Around 1990, General Pinochet was out, U.S.-based consumer products returned in force, McDonald's/Burger King/KFC branches popped up like mushrooms, and prices for Twinkies, etc. fell. One result: every generation of Chileans born after 1980 has shown an increasing rate of obesity.

So I suppose the Bad mean US companies went over there to kill them all off and they have no willpower at all? Really?! Come on. Where there is a demand there is a supply. They are bombarded with all kinds of health propaganda as it is. They are making their own choices.
No one is being forced to eat unhealthy foods, and unlike tobacco, they aren’t addictive. I am sure some would like to contend that but there is no scientific proff.

 

[C-dot]

No one is being forced to eat unhealthy foods, and unlike tobacco, they aren’t addictive. I am sure some would like to contend that but there is no scientific proff.

Eating junk food is a bad, bad habit, like chewing your nails. Bad habits are easy to adopt, but hard to recognize sometimes and even harder to kick, especially when everyone around you is engaging in the same habit.

 

[jamespowers]

The only concession I'd personally like to see to my "no subsidies" philosophy is to make good, healthy foods affordable. It IS nigh impossible to feed a family on a few dollars a day - keeping out the whole bit where we don't discuss poor people with no/limited means having kids or men leaving women with their kids...- since switching our diets earlier this year, we discovered how expensive this is - save having your own garden, which we do as well.
If we did this, we lower health problems, healthcare costs and put people to work. Farmers are happy, we're happy, and society benefits overall. However - I believe many people used to a junk food diet would not take advantage of this - and that's the sad part. Good food often isn't as tasty (for the sake of this argument - I know there are good things that taste good) to kids and folks used to Mickey D's, KFC, etc.
And it's not just poor/uneducated folks that don't know what they're eating...

And there lies the problem. Who is going to enforce what people should eat. Who is going to make choices for them and even if they do----are they going to eat it? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
The problem I see is that some is going to have to assert themselves as a final arbiter of what is good and bad and force people to do what they want. I just can't see that.

 

[jamespowers]

It's impossible to do anything on a few dollars a day in this day and age. I still say it isn't all that more expensive to feed yourself properly (in fact, I find it much more expensive to eat junk) provided you have a general meal plan and shop smartly. But of course, I'm only feeding myself.

You are not alone. This person even has a few fine pointers on how it is cheaper to make things from scratch and how it keeps you out of the junk food isle:
http://www.bekahferguson.com/content/view/50/12/

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Where there is a demand there is a supply.

You mean potential demand. Before the late 1980s, Chile was a country without a McDonald's and without any homegrown McDonald's clones to speak of. If there had been a demand, then where was the supply? There was no supply ... because Chileans weren't clamoring for it. They had their farmers' markets daily and their inexpensive lunchtime "diners" where the food was simple but fresh, and heavy on fruit, vegetables and fish.


Then, McDonald's comes along with its billion-dollar battering ram of advertising, mushrooming franchises, hegemony over suppliers, etc., and Chileans find themselves told on the radio, billboards, flyers, and television that McDonald's is better than local ways of eating. It's First World! It's Prosperous! It's located where your local lunchtime diner used to be! No mention of the prospects of obesity, Escherichia coli, high blood pressure....

 

[ButteMT61]

It's impossible to do anything on a few dollars a day in this day and age. I still say it isn't all that more expensive to feed yourself properly (in fact, I find it much more expensive to eat junk) provided you have a general meal plan and shop smartly. But of course, I'm only feeding myself.

Right. It's when some poor person (in the sense of their plight, not finances) has to work two jobs, has no car, and has three kids to feed before the next shift that this fast food thing takes hold.
Single (no disrespect, I was once) is easy. Families are a totally different ballgame...

 

[C-dot]

You are not alone. This person even has a few fine pointers on how it is cheaper to make things from scratch and how it keeps you out of the junk food isle:
http://www.bekahferguson.com/content/view/50/12/

Thanks for that! See, I do the exact same thing with my spaghetti and my baking (muffins, cookies, etc.) and my mother does it with those plus yogurt and oatmeal. I may add those two to my list when I start eating breakfast again.

Right. It's when some poor person (in the sense of their plight, not finances) has to work two jobs, has no car, and has three kids to feed before the next shift that this fast food thing takes hold.
Single (no disrespect, I was once) is easy. Families are a totally different ballgame...

I'm pretty sure it's the kids that make it harder. I practically live paycheque to paycheque these days, and my car sucks up a lot of money.

That's what I mean about the convenience, though - Sometimes, it's just easier to get it done quickly, but it really isn't cheaper! Case in point: I pay 7 dollars for a burger at Mickey D's, when I can pay 9 for a box of frozen beef burgers and barbeque them. It's much healthier, not to mention the superior value and taste. The thing that divides this debate is time.

 

[ButteMT61]

How can you have pudding if you don't eat your meat?

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

And there lies the problem. Who is going to enforce what people should eat. Who is going to make choices for them and even if they do----are they going to eat it? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

L.A. seems to think they can because not too long ago they put a moratorium on new fast food restaurants in South Central L.A.

Good point lol And ironically enough, I'm in one of the fattest parts of this fair country - The French influence is far east of me!

I'm telling you, it's the donuts! lol