The general decline in standards today

[Burma Schave]

Then there are the 'gents' who, say, open doors for women and mutter "bitch" under their breaths if said women don't smile and say "thank you". These men expect pats on the back, and get ugly when the payback doesn't come.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Exactly. These types of sexists are nice to women not because they respect them, but because they think a woman in incapable of handling anything. Their attitude towards women are almost the same as attitudes they have towards pets. They'd never HIT a pet. It's unthinkable to hit a defenseless animal who can't act for themselves.

I've been told that racism is the often the same way- the subtle racists are the worst to deal with- they lull you into a false sense of security.

It's the way I get treated when I walk into NAPA to buy parts for my car. It's the look I get when I tell someone how to rebuild a radio. It's the indulgent smile I get when I explain to the projector service tech that I already fixed the problem and readjusted the lamp, and he insists he better come up to take a look anyway "just to be sure."

Every. Day. Of. My. Life. Is it any wonder any time I see "that smile" it's all I can do not to kick big stwong mans' teef right down his fwoat?

 

[Dennis Young]

There was a fad that became popular a few years ago where some men wanted to be ‘metro sexual’. SouthPark had a hilarious episode on that. But there was some truth in it I think. A metro sexual doesn’t have to be gay or straight or whatever. But he is focused more on grooming and appearance (and apparently the approval of others) than he is on just being a man. He’s pretty much a dandy.


Cosmopolitan magazine wasn’t always the magazine that it is today. In 1902, an article appeared about manhood. It asked first ‘what do men dislike in some men‘. Answers were interesting:


1. I suppose that every man who is a man … dislikes a “Sissy”;

(A sissy is) polite and rather anxious to please. He wishes always to do the thing which happens to be the proper thing at any given time. He never would think of initiating anything novel or starting out in a new and unexpected course. He likes very much to be with ladies, and ladies like him – in a way. He is a most useful creature and absolutely harmless, intended by Providence to carry wraps and rugs, to order carriages, to provide theater-tickets, flowers, bon-bons, opera-boxes and four-in-hands, according to his means and the position which he holds. He will call regularly upon a girl and in fact upon all the girls he knows, and he will keep it up for years, and it will never mean anything to him or to them, for he is essentially a tame cat…

Men laugh at him, perhaps; yet he is not of sufficient consequence to be actively disliked. The true Sissy, …is the man of any age or any external appearance who for certain physical reasons always inspires you with a vague yet insurmountable feeling of malaise. He need not be a physical weakling at all. The most perfect specimen of this type that I have ever seen was a man over six feet in height, of powerful build, and with the torso of a gladiator. When you first saw him you said to yourself, “Here is a man!” Yet he was a Sissy all the same. Nature had merely mocked him in giving him a presence such as his.
I thought this was funny, but accurate. Lol


So what makes a man, a man? A lot of things. The article continued:


First of all, a man must be what other men call “square” – which implies that he must have a sense of honor. This means so much in the relations of men with men. From women they do not expect it, at least in the fullest sense – a man’s sense; but it is the very corner-stone of friendship among men.
I talked about this recently. This was once true. I fear it is no longer.


Then there is courage, without which man is not a man; and generosity, which really is an element of reasonableness; and with these, modesty, which, while it quietly conceals the other traits, does in the end enhance their value and increase the charm which they possess. And dignity.

　

　

 

[Feraud]

I thought this was interesting.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2015/03/10/a-mans-smile-identifies-level-of-sexism/82148.html


Apparently the way a man smiles at a woman identifies a level of sexism. I was immediately reminded of my post about tipping a hat, or holding the door for women. In the article, they describe it in terms as gender discrimination.


I can just imagine what Clark Gable, John Wayne and Humphrey Bogart might have thought about this.


So men…what do you think?

I take it you don't believe in social cues? Smiles, frowns, the raising or lowering of the voice?

Just pulling this quote from the article

Hostile sexism is an antipathy or dislike of women, and often comes to the fore as dominant and derogatory behavior in an effort to maintain power.

Benevolent sexism is less negative on the surface and more paternalistic, reflecting a chivalrous and subjectively positive view of women. Men who demonstrate this “well-intentioned” sexism see women as warm and pure yet helpless, incompetent, and in need of men’s protection.

I've seen these two particular types of behavior displayed towards women plenty of times in my life.
It doesn't make me any less of a man or a "sissy" to recognize the behavior. I prefer to call it honest.

When it comes to how my mom, sister, niece and wife are going to be treated, I don't give a damn what Gable, Wayne, or Bogart think.

 

[LizzieMaine]

But he is focused more on grooming and appearance (and apparently the approval of others) than he is on just being a man. He’s pretty much a dandy.

You've just described a substantial portion of the Lounge membership. God help you.

 

[Dennis Young]

Says you.

I don’t think of the men in here as dandys though.





This sums up the article:

What then is the conclusion? Men like in men these traits: the honor that ennobles; the justice that insures the right; the reasonableness that mellows and makes plain; the courage that proclaims virility; the generous instinct that disdains all meanness; the modesty that makes no boast; the dignity that wins respect; the fineness and the tenderness that know and feel. But when one thinks of it more carefully, may he not sum it up in just a single sentence, and accept it as truth, that all men like a gentleman?

 

[Burma Schave]

The Cosmopolitan article also describes gay men...but I doubt that many choose to stay in the FL for long, lest they inflict "malaise" among this place's Real Men.

 

[Feraud]

Then there are the 'gents' who, say, open doors for women and mutter "bitch" under their breaths if said women don't smile and say "thank you". These men expect pats on the back, and get ugly when the payback doesn't come.

Absolutely
Ask women on the streets of NYC what happens when a man approaches her with a, "you look delicious today young lady" and the woman doesn't respond.
The utter hated of the woman is palpable.

Or as a local newsman used to say, "Let's go to the videotape!"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...assed-108-times-as-she-walks-around-new-york/

Within hours of posting the video online, Hollaback tweeted that Roberts, the woman featured in the video, had received rape threats and asked followers to help police YouTube comments by reporting threats.

 

[Dennis Young]

Now…what does this have to do with the decline of standards? Its what I’ve been saying all along. We (men) have somewhere along the way, lost our identity. I blamed hippies, but its probably a lot of other reasons as well. We have lost our honor. Not every man of course, but as a culture. We don’t care for other people’s dignity (which may lead to that video of the 15 year old kid getting beaten by the adults).


Its good to be ‘nice’, ‘polite’, but its not enough. We must have a sense of justice. Of Goodness. And I think if our culture reclaimed that, we would go a long way toward reclaiming the standards we had at one time. J

 

[LizzieMaine]

Says you.

I don’t think of the men in here as dandys though.

Sez me indeed. Head on over to General Attire, and post a few thoughts on Dandyism. Be ready to duck.

 

[Dennis Young]

The Cosmopolitan article also describes gay men...but I doubt that many stay in the FL for long, lest they inflict "malaise" among this place's Real Men.

The article I refer to didn’t mention gay men.

 

[Dennis Young]

Sez me indeed. Head on over to General Attire, and post a few thoughts on Dandyism. Be ready to duck.

I'm a regular there. Why dont you run over there and tattle since it bothers you so much?

 

[Burma Schave]

Didn't mention gay men? Now who's being naive? Please reread the second paragraph of the article you quoted.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'm a regular there. Why dont you run over there and tattle since it bothers you so much?

What are you, five?

 

[Dennis Young]

Didn't mention gay men? Now who's being naive? Please reread the second paragraph of the article you quoted.

Its talking about a sissy. Is that gay to you? Not me.

 

[Burma Schave]

Paragraph two describes a "sissy" who also happens to be gay. It's couched and codified in Edwardian language, but it's there, and the opinion it conveys is undeniably ugly.

 

[Dennis Young]

I take it you don't believe in social cues? Smiles, frowns, the raising or lowering of the voice?

Just pulling this quote from the article


I've seen these two particular types of behavior displayed towards women plenty of times in my life.
It doesn't make me any less of a man or a "sissy" to recognize the behavior. I prefer to call it honest.

When it comes to how my mom, sister, niece and wife are going to be treated, I don't give a damn what Gable, Wayne, or Bogart think.

You may not, and that fine. You do what you have to do. I don’t give a damn about a lot of stuff I read. But I did laugh when I read that article. J

 

[Dennis Young]

Paragraph two is describing a "sissy" who also happens to be gay. It's codified in Edwardian language, but it's there.

I don’t think it described his sexuality at all. You called it that, not me. I have known a number of effeminate acting men who weren’t gay.

 

[Dennis Young]

 

[Burma Schave]

This conversation has just become a waste of time. I'll 'pull a Cronkite' and say: goodnight, and good luck.